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Online now: 6 members: DeanMO, Jaylew42, Marcos Rodriguez, Rambrose13, Rollie, Tab27; 13 anonymousDiscussion: 3GG - Vegas Worlds
| Posted | Discussion |
| Dec. 10 udaplaya 90 posts | In reviewing the 50+ Major bracket from the recently completed Winter Worlds in Vegas, i cam across an unusual application of the 3GG rule. Nothing against the Colorado Mudhens, but they seemed to benefit from an overly forgiving bracket. Game 1 Winners bracket: Lost to Mission softball, record 0 - 1, 1 game played Game 2 Losers bracket: Beat Doubleplay, record 1 - 1, 2 games played Game 3 Losers bracket: Lost to Marauders, record 1 - 2, 3 games played. At this point, i would have thought that they were now eliminated from the tournament, as their 3GG right was fulfilled and they lost the third game. Lo and behold, they advance to the next round, similarly as if they won the previous game! Now, i understand that if a team loses its first two games, they still play a third and can still come all the way back. I am not sure if there was an atypical bracket because of the numbers of teams, but this seeemed inconsistent with other SSUSA tournaments that we played this year. We playeded in Reno, lost our first game, won our second, lost our third and were eliminated. We sure would have liked to be afforded the same extra chance that the Mudhens (or whomever would have landed in that spot in the bracket) received. Not a big deal, just would like to know for future reference. Is the application of the rule consistent, arbitrary, at the whim of the director, or based on the number of teams? My thanks again to SSUSA for allwoing me to stil play softball with and against my peers. |
| Dec. 10 Dbax Men's 65 2101 posts | Excellent point. SSUSA, what about this? How can you go 1-2, and still advance? This is absurd. |
| Dec. 10 DaveDowell Men's 70 4323 posts | udaplayer and Dbax - Any 3GG bracket has to guarantee that ALL teams get what is advertised: no less than 3 games in the bracket. In some cases, that means that a team or teams may actually get a 4 game 'guarantee', depending on when they lose. Take another look at the bracket when you get a chance. In this specific bracket (9-team), it's Colorado's OPPONENT (the Marauders) that has to be protected in the event they lost Elimination Bracket game #7. The Marauders lost Winners Bracket game #3 (their 1st) to fall into game #7. If the Marauders had lost game #7 (their 2nd), and not been 'dumped' into game #11, they would have been out of the tournament in only 2 games instead of 3. Therefore, the game #7 loser is assigned to game #11, which has to be done before the tournament begins, not on the fly after we know who wins which game. This is a fairly common occurrence in any 3GG bracket that has an odd number of teams, simply because there is that 'odd' team(s) out there that will get a bye in the 1st round and have to be protected for 2 more games (to make 3). If that team (in this case, the Marauders) wins that 2nd game to move on, the loser steps into their protected position and, in effect, gets guaranteed a fourth game. As long as you're still playing, you can win. There is nothing arbitrary, absurd, or discretionary at the whim of the Director (or more accurately, the scheduler) in this. It is just bracket logic to protect EVERY team and guarantee a 3rd game, regardless of the outcome of the first two. This case was actually protecting the Marauders if they didn't protect themselves, which they did. Colorado was an unintended beneficiary as a result. Hope this helps. |
| Dec. 10 Dbax Men's 65 2101 posts | I understand the explanation, but still, it does not seem fair to the teams that only lost 2 games yet still finished behind the Mudhens who lost 3. |
| Dec. 11 Paco13 424 posts | WOW, this is unreal...Senior people bitching about every little thing. Guys grow up and enjoy the fact that we are still healthy enough to play end enjoy the game that we love...As a note we were a beneficiary of this rule down in FT. Myers even though it did not help us. Have a wonderful and bless day. |
| Dec. 11 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | wouldn't the seeding round get you all the guarantee games you need to give a team,you play 2 seeding games with DE thats 4 games right there,why give a 3GG in DE round.it would seem you could also cut back some costs on a tourney with this(less games to be umped and etc).well just a thought about it.and yes i've been in both boats on this subject(seniors and kids ball). |
| Dec. 11 udaplaya 90 posts | Dave, thanks for the clarification. I know that bracketing is never as easy as it looks and sometimes we overlook all of the little nuances that go into your work. Because of the general tone of this message board, i go out of my way not to bitch. We are new to Senior softball and use this forum to become educated of some of the uniqueness of playing senior ball. We wholeheartedly support SSUSA and I, for one, am glad they are here to help satiate my extended childhood. I know the complete 2009 tournament schedule is not out yet, but would it be possible to get the dates for the Palm Springs tourney? Thanks again. |
