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Discussion: rule changes

Posted Discussion
Dec. 17, 2008
sonn45
2 posts
rule changes
I agree gentleman on the "out" issue and from one on one conversations with various teams in Major +, Major & AAA, no one likes the idea and especially our pitchers. Take another look before we get into the new year.
Dec. 17, 2008
Dillon1
12 posts
An out after the homeruns are used up is a great new rule. It will allow for more defense and strategy not to mention the opportunity for bat control. Love it.
Dec. 17, 2008
2awesom
Men's 50
296 posts
I would have to agree with Dillon1. Just my opinion also.
Dec. 17, 2008
angus73
Men's 50
97 posts
Dillon1: you must not be a pitcher or have many friends who are : )
Dec. 17, 2008
beast
19 posts
making it an out for balls hit over the fence after the team home runs are taken is just putting a target on the pitcher,first or third basemens chest, the only thing that is going to go up is medical bills!!!!
Dec. 17, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Beast I happen to be a first baseman/round robin outfielder, I hear you but it a wise course of action to hit a ball directly at my chest very easy to catch I would suggest a shot down around my ankles but not in the air much more difficult to handle. Me I'm going to stick some road cones where I think the 2B and 1B would stand and take the easy road and hit it between them.
Dec. 18, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
It gets very tiresome to keep hearing these lame excuses for hitting back through the pitcher. If you have to hit it back through the pitcher to get a cheap hit then maybe it is time to learn how to hit.
Dec. 18, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Fred... so hitting a ball through fair territory is now a "cheap" hit???... get real!... what's cheap is using bat/ball combinations that make you seem like a better hitter as a senior than you ever were... quit whining and play the game... if you are a pitcher, switch to a position that is safer for you.
Dec. 18, 2008
F.O.G.
Men's 40
105 posts
Wooden bats and .50 core balls...that should level the field a bit....
Dec. 18, 2008
leftie
Men's 50
41 posts
i agree with Fred.
Better yet..Let's put the pitcher behind second base and when a batter comes up to bat, he is given a ball. He throws it up in the air and hits it..
It could be world championship fungo..
Dec. 18, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Fred agree anyone that announces their intentions defensively probably not a problem regardless of where you stand on the diamond, the ones that drive you nuts are the silent guys who go up do their job and when you look at the book he hit a rope to LF, a rope to RF a HR to straight center and bullet through the 3-4 hole. Those guys make me nervous, because your constantly on edge.
Dec. 18, 2008
DMac
Men's 60
185 posts
I don't know who you guys are playing against, but getting something past Sierrahiker or Robbin of the Strokers is never a cheap hit .
The problem with this DBO rule is eliminates the importance of the pitcher as a defensive position. Put anyone on the mound; if the ball comes near him it is an out. As long as he can throw strikes, who cares if he can field.
Dec. 18, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
The only thing I am saying is stop using (Hr Rule, etc) for excuses for hitting at the pitcher. I am a middle of the field hitter with line drives into the open area of the middle of the field (especially when there is no middle fielder). There is plenty of open space out there. I realize there are times when you hit back at the pitcher by accident. I had one of those games in Vegas. For some reason my timing was off and I hit 3 straight back at the pitcher.

Yes hitting it back at the pitcher on purpose is a cheap hit.
Dec. 18, 2008
Stretch14
Men's 50
186 posts
I never go up the middle but better a cheap hit than a dumb out.
Dec. 18, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Gentlemen,

Enough is enough already. We either have a pitcher protection rule or we do not. As of now, there is NO pitcher protection rule that protects the pitcher, other than guys purposely avoiding the middle. It is just a figment of someone's imagination. SSUSA needs to make a real rule that REALLY protects the pitcher, or forget the whole thing. There are only 3 ways to protect the pitcher, and SSUSA's way is definitely NOT one of them. The 3 ways are: 1)have the pitcher wear protective gear(chest protector, shin guards, and a face guard, 2) put up a screen in front of the pitcher, or 3) do not play this game. That is it gentlemen! All of this is a bunch of bull. I guess you can add a fourth way to protect the pitcher. Use a soft softball, as they do for kids 10 and under, so when they get beaned in the head, they are still alive. I still think the SSUSA rule translates to the following interpretation: batter is out and the pitcher is dead.

If the biggest hole in the infield is up the middle, then I am going to put that ball up the middle, and no rule has stopped me from doing that yet. I just do not hit the ball with the intent of hitting the pitcher, nor where he can field it.

Pitching has become a boring position to me. SSUSA has taken the defensive pitcher out of the game. I welcome anyone to hit the ball up the middle, and PLEASE no apologies, even if you hit me. If you hit me in the shins, it will only hurt for 3-5 months.

As I said at the beginning of this, enough is enough. Also, one last comment, someone is very stubborn regarding this rule, because it stinks in every aspect of its purpose. Remember, I am the idiot along with the other team's pitcher, that SSUSA insisted that I pitch with the sun in my eyes, and I could not see the ball thrown back to from my catcher. Obviously, SSUSA really does not give a damn.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager/Coach
Dec. 19, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
No, Fred... hitting it back at the pitcher is an easy out, if your pitcher can play some defense.
Dec. 19, 2008
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
Duke, I agree with you that really the only thing to protect the pitcher is to use protective equipment or get them out of there. So I guess a hitting T or a pitching machine is an option (not). I know when I learned to play that I was taught to hit the middle although if any of you worry about me hitting at you with a Miken that it is time for you to retire. I also believe that in seniors that a HR should never be an out and have been around long enough that I know when you are out HRs, more hits go for the middle. I would make a HR limit with singles or doubles after that only to keep from penalizing the hitter and to protect the pitcher. I work with youth and Special Olympics softball, and I know these issues are not at the top of the list for them, and I like to think that senior pitchers are better able to play defense than either of those 2 groups. I sincerely hope that the few people that have advanced the idea that these rules are based on conflict of interest are incorrect. I officiate in many associations, and I am a little tired of every association having different rules, but I care and try to keep up with every nuance of the associations that I work for. I do know that some of my fellow officials do not care as much and do not read rules or try to understand them. I think the commentary from the DBO rule only proves that officiating by hearsay is alive and well. Can't we just all meet at the sandlot and have fun?
Dec. 19, 2008
Brit
Men's 50
6 posts
If it were this simple:

- Pitcher has the option to wear protective equipment
- Every ball hit out after maximum is a single
- if you decide to hit the midlle, they'll hit the middle too

The pitcher should "want" to play defense too. If he/she chooses against the "requirement" to play defense then you move to another position.
No, I'm not a pitcher. That is a talent I've not tried to acquire to date. Maybe someday...
Dec. 19, 2008
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
Hit wherever you want. The middle is part of the field.
I'll never get hit standing in the pitchers box because I'm
backpeddling like Ali. Float like a butterfly, never get stung by the bee. Maybe they'll make the box 2x30 feet!
Dennis- miss having you around(50/50)
Leftie- Loved the World Championship Fungo comment,
might be the next big thing.
Dec. 19, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
199 posts
Again!!! The controversy rages. Again!!! As stated by Tate 22, and encouraged by other's including a long time pither Duke, ARMOUR UP!!! Enough with changing the game, putting the pressure on the umpires, trying to please everybody! no game is injury free we all understand it's a risk. So take personal responsibility ARMOUR UP if you choose.
Tommyd
Dec. 20, 2008
leftie
Men's 50
41 posts
Every time I read one of these threads.. I see where somebody says that going up the middle is part of the game...Fine.
Let's take away the orange bag at first..what's a few broken ankles.
Likewise the extra home plate..what's a few good old fashion collisions at homeplate. Probably won't happen.
The infielders out there know that whenever they back up on a ball(ie letting the ball play you) two things will happen..You either miss it or catch it in the teeth or both.
That's the position the pitcher is always in because SSUSA has implemented a 6 foot box. Take away the box and allow the pitcher to pitch from where ever he/she is comfortable. If a pitcher can throw a legal strike(umpires judgement again) from a foot in front of 2nd base..Who cares? Then you can do whatever you want with the home run rule.
Nobody ever says anything when the infielders play on the grass to get a "better look at the ball"
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Dec. 22, 2008
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
All this talk about the pitcher needing to be a great (not good—an infielder who can stop a Miken shot from 70 feet away is “good”) defensive player or get out of the game is new to senior softball. What has caused it? Hot bats and hot balls. That’s what makes it dangerous for the pitcher.

These same guys who feel blasting a screamer at a pitcher from 50 feet away is a legitimate part of the game don’t seem to object to the double bag rule at first that saves many a collision. Or the second home plate with the same safety results. Let the catcher “armor up” and see how he likes the collisions.

Why the fervent defense of the hot bats? To hit more home runs, to make oneself feel that you are a stud...when you never were a big hitter before. I played for 47 years in recreational leagues and never hit a home run over the fence. Then I switched to senior softball. Someone let me borrow an Ultra II when it came out. Boom! I hit my first home run over the fence. The next year I hit two over in the same game. Felt good, but that feeling has worn off. Wasn’t me. No more exciting than hitting a tennis ball over the fence.

I miss the defense that outfielders used to offer to the game. I miss a teammate hitting precisely in the hole, not just whizzing the ball past a third baseman who barely sees the ball. I miss the game-changing impact of a sharp relay, hitting behind the batter, taking the extra base on a slight bobble. I miss seeing a legitmate bomb, well struck, instead of a mishit that still clears the fence.

I’ll tell you what else I miss. One year, ASA let pitchers have an unlimited arc. The result was some close, low-scoring games. I loved it. Game was undecided until the 7th inning. Batters objected. Rule was changed. Isn’t that like the majors passing a rule that no fast ball can be clocked more than 80 mph?

Leftie is on to something. Let the pitcher pitch from 50, 60, 70 feet away. Do away with any arc definition—if the ball hits the plate or mat it’s a strike. Then I’ll feel more comfortable about facing batters with their puffed-up bats.
Dec. 22, 2008
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
Chicks dig the long ball. Baseball was revitalized because of the HR race between McGuire and Sosa, juiced or not. SSWC is the first national organization to allow the Miken Ultra II so they must like them.

I could not wait to move out of the 45’s so I could “let er rip” every time I was up. I still don’t follow a HR with a HR because I believe you can reduce an outfielder’s effectiveness in the field and at the plate by making him chase a double instead of watching a HR go over his head. One of these days I might actually get to second, hip is doing better everyday. I do think a HR pumps up your team and if it is an “OH MY” then it gets everyone pumped up.

Homeruns are an integral part of the game and to dumb down the game will not have a bunch of guys running out and spending the same kind of money for a great glove as opposed to getting the newest and bestest bat.

I have played this game for 39 years. Juiced bodies and juiced bats are just an ugly part of the game at the elite level. I have never juiced nor used a juiced bat and buy all of my bats from authorized dealers not individuals, but if you don't think it happens you (used in a generic fashion not directed toward any individual) are naive. Going to ASA bats will not help only create a more utilized niche market for rolling and shaving bats. Check out Craigslist, one individual in Phoenix unashamedly alters and sells altered bats.

Problem with making HR outs is the same guy that can hit it 360 is now hitting it down and the 3rd baseman is playing short left field or checking out his medical costs for out of network service. Make it a 1 up and a single and I am trying to hit the fence in the gap as opposed to the 5/6 hole.
Dec. 24, 2008
pwhewett
Men's 55
8 posts
Hey, Omar! Let me hit Clinchers with a wood bat and I promise you I'll bounce 1 in 10 off of you - you won't be able to field them. I've played hardball, fastpitch, modified and slowpitch and pitchers at every level, with every possible combination of balls and bats, get hit. I'm a pitcher, I know what it is like. Your at risk mostly when you are concentrating on ball placement (or whatever) instead of fielding - though the line drive right at your face or groin can be tough to get to. The ball will come at you from 85 to 110 miles per hour. Anything over 75 and you can be toast. We are also over 50 - simply don't have the same reflexes. You want to play nerf ball or its equivalent go to another association. I'll take my chances playing at this level. As for the out, it is a dumb rule that will just annoy people.

A lot of folks assume all players at all levels have the necessary bat control to CHOOSE whether to hit the ball at the pitcher or not. That assumes all players always hit the ball where they want to. HA! Why would ANYONE WANT to hit the ball up the middle thru the pitcher??? It is always a mistake. I want to put the ball on the green, not low where someone might get to it!!!! Don't we all wish we could place the ball perfectly 100% of the time??? Ha!
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