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Discussion: team ratings?

Posted Discussion
Jan. 4, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2582 posts
team ratings?
Will each association have its own Team Rating? Will the Summit associations still use the ratings listed on this website?
Does anyone know?
Jan. 4, 2009
bullet
Men's 55
130 posts
I don't think SSUSA has any idea.If they did why would tell us.We ARE the guys that pays entrance fees,card fees,oh yea there expenses. Sure would be nice if they did know to let the team manager know so they could atleast see if they need to look for a player or two. This just goes with alot of other things going on with these assoc. We pay the money and put up with anything they or tournaments directors do, because WE LOVE TO PLAY THIS GAME
Jan. 4, 2009
Sisavic
134 posts
After last year's Summit, SS USA announced it would keep its own ratings using its own tournament resuts only. It no longer would include results from other associations' tournaments.

Other associations are not strick enough when policing their rosters.
Jan. 4, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4251 posts
Just because another assn is not strict enough on rosters, I would see no reason why they could not use the tournament RESULTS.
If a team uses "other" (those who would otherwise not be allowed with that team or a similar situation) players, I'd think it would only hurt that team as a whole in the long run. Why not use results to bolster ratings either way.
But they should also be available to view just like rosters. imo
Jan. 4, 2009
Sisavic
134 posts
Taits,

I'm not sure what you mean. Please try again.

Here's my point using a personal example from a few years ago: I was managing aa appropriately rated AA team. Because a few of my players couldn't make a USSSA tournament, I picked up a few excellent players just to be able to play. I didn't hide anything and no one questioned my roster.

There was only one other team there and we beat them in the IF game by one run and was immediately moved to AAA. This caused about one year of agony, getting our butts kicked through the required 3 tournaments (We were 1 and 18 as a AAA before getting re-rated).

At that time, using Summit rules, it didn't make a difference that the players I used in the USSSA were not, and would never be on my SS USA roster.

In retrospect, we should have stayed home or used different uniforms.
Jan. 4, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1004 posts
Hi Bruce I bet they will not have their own ratings. My team is rated on the SPA website and there is no way he would know this team. I bet over the half the guys on my team don't even have SPA cards. If anyone would know how SPA could rate a team he has never seen or for that matter most of the players I would be interested in knowing that process. They have to be sharing information, as a matter of fact the SPA ratings look suspiciously identical to the SSUSA ratings right down to the player drop down listing. Taits you can view rosters on SPA right now click on the little blue arrow, just go to their website and click on team ratings. SSUSA you can only see the manager I believe the team managers can view only their roster. What is interesting is that I don't believe that most of our players have played in a SPA tournament in the last two years yet we are rated.
Jan. 4, 2009
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
The roster they have on us is the one from the recent Winter Nationals in Vegas, so if they are exchanging their info, it must have been done recently. Some of those guys only played one tournament with us, the Vegas one, lol.
Jan. 5, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4251 posts
Sisavic,
Lets try this: Just because an assn doesn't take the time to verify players listed on a roster doesn't mean that it should keep another assn from using that roster in rating that same team. Roster jumping like that will only hurt that team and player in the long run.
So use another associations results for helping to rate teams.

If SSUSA is so concerned about a run differential for rating a team, why worry about HR limits at any level. A win is a win. Teams can sandbag at any point in a game, especially if an 8+ run difference will move them.

As for the move you made, I know there are teams that have or do change names uniforms. If you kept old ratings, look them over and you'll see. Not many compared to the number of teams over all but quite a few. I personally know one or two teams that had 4-5 names, all in the "name" of the ratings, err scam. lol

Play up, it may surprise you on how well you could do. There are advantages as well as disadvantages. I'd think a closely located qualifier would be a good place to try it, maybe even playing down an age division.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Jan. 5, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2582 posts
Joe, I agree. There will always be "sharing" information about teams.
I wonder what's the purpose of listing the roster. Probably to keep players from playing with more than one team.
Jan. 5, 2009
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
Bruce, At one time TD's would submit an evaluation of teams to an association...This I know because as a tourney official I submitted team evaluations (my opinion) to the association that was blessing the tournament.
Jan. 5, 2009
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Airbosn, from what I understand, SSUSA TDs are supposed to send in an evaluation of the teams after every tournament, and “Terry and the Pirates” (lol) are supposed to use them as a tool in rating the teams. I also heard that a lot of them are disgusted that their evaluations are being ignored, and run differential is primarily what they use to make their decision.
Jan. 5, 2009
DCPete
228 posts
This means that the Run Differential is off by 5 runs in all the games where the Equalizer is used. Doesn't sound like a very good system to me . . .
Jan. 5, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4251 posts
The only time a run differential should be used is in case of a tie, runs held to or given up, I've seen both ways used.
Not for ratings, as I state above.
Jan. 5, 2009
Duke
Men's 60
678 posts
DCPete,

Games with the 5 run equalizer are not used in computing run differential, because those teams are not in your age/level for your bracket.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels
Manager/Coach,
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