http://www.mikensports.com/

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 0 members ; 41 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Lighter Bats vs Heavier Bats II

Posted Discussion
Sept. 3, 2009
Ceres
63 posts
Lighter Bats vs Heavier Bats II
On 9/2 under Lighter Bats Vs Heavier Bats, softball4 gave the equation...Force = mass x speed to prove his point. His equation is wrong. Force = mass x velocity squared divided by R where R is approximately the bat's length. Velocity of the bat dominates the equation. The faster you can swing it the force increases a bunch.
Sept. 3, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
Good old Newton, He may have to rethink it all out.
I Don't think so.

Sept. 3, 2009
softball4b
Men's 60
722 posts
You forgot to add the other portion of the equation, a 205 lb swinging a 26 as opposed to a 275 lb swinging a 30. Impact and form same.....me swinging a 30 will hit it further and with more force than a 205 with a 26.
Sept. 3, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
mike you could swap the bats around and still say that of you.now you give that 205 lb'er a 30 oz bat and i'll bet his distance will be less,then when he hits his 26 oz bat.big guys can sustain(after ball contact) the bat speed needed to swing a big bat.
i swing a lite bat and always have.i was one of those wait till the last second BB hitters(really loved those off speed pitches)and just brought it over to softball.i've been told that i react to a ball really quick when i see my pitch to hit.i can hit a ball over 300'with all assoc bats(more easier with senior bats).never gone 400' unlike most hero's will say they have.i've come close but hey as long as it goes over 300' i don't care.
Sept. 21, 2009
seniorsbfart
45 posts
Ok so if I am at 180 should I swing a 26 or 28 to get the most out of my swing.
Sept. 21, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
I'm in a grey area here. I do not see it as a your body weight thing.
It's what and how you apply it in your swing. Legs, body mass arms, shoulders, & wrists...and where your head lies...
Swing a bat as light as you can and then try heaver ones until you can not produce the same speed as the lighter one. Then only go up one oz from there if that was a balanced bat. If end loaded, stick with that. El's are 1-2 oz swing differences....
All jmo's
Sept. 22, 2009
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
You're going to get numerous different opinions on this subject.
A lot of it boils down to personal preference.
Bat speed at the point of contact and maintaining it after contact is crucial to maximizing distance. Simple physics.
Bat speed will also effect line drives going through the infield.
I like many swing a light bat for that very reason. I will swing one ounce lighter with an end load versus a balanced bat.
There's absolutely no way I will hit a ball farther with a 30 oz. bat than I will with a 27 oz. bat. Tried it and can't.
I'm 6'4" and 240 lbs.
I gotten many of my team mates to drop down an ounce and they are much more comfortable at the plate.
Sept. 22, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
The all due respect the bat has no idea how heavy the batter is. All it knows is the speed it is traveling, completely regardless of the batter's weight.

Might more weight contribute to more bat speed? Sure. But batter's weight alone means nothing to the distance the ball will travel or the speed it will move.
Sept. 22, 2009
PJ3P
Men's 50
68 posts
Here's one area I don't ever see mentioned in this discussion. When I cut the ball [backspin] a lighter bat tends to deflect off of the softball. The heavier bat drives through it better. Now, if you are the kind of hitter who likes to hit it square, the lighter bat might be your better option as it compresses the walls on a square hit instead of deflecting away. Make sense?
Sept. 22, 2009
PJ3P
Men's 50
68 posts
Al33, I'm your size 6'2" 250 and I can definitely hit it further with a heavier bat. More suits my swing. The longest hrs I've ever hit have been with
a very end loaded 30 oz Vanadium, a 29 FL MM Gear 10", a 29 oz Freak Plus and a JH120 28.5. I'm easily 20' short with my 27.5 oz JH120 compared to the 28.5 and the other bats beat the 28.5. It is all about swing type and what works for you.
Sept. 22, 2009
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Like I said, lot's of opinions on the subject.
Ray DiMarini has done much research over the years on hitting and bat speed. He gives two great examples.
He uses himself as the first example.
His bat speed with both a 26 oz. bat and a 29 oz. bat are exactly the same which is 95 mph. You would logically think same bat speed, heavier bat, more distance. Ray says NO.
The difference is what his bat speed drops down to immediately after contact. With the 26 oz. bat the speed drops to 56 mph. With the 29 oz. it drops to 49 mph. Therefore loss of distance.
His second example is Larry Carter, one of the greatest power hitters ever. Larry swings a 31 oz. bat and generates the same 95 mph swing speed as Ray does with a 26 oz bat. Question: Why does Larry hit the ball so much farther.
Answer: It's because Larry's swing speed immediately after contact is the highest that Ray has ever recorded. It only drops down to an amazing 89 mph. He virtually loses no bat speed, therefore for him there's no need to go lighter.
Ray recommends experimenting with different weighted bats. The key is to find the right weight that allows you to maintain the most bat speed after contact through the hitting zone and follow through.

Check out his web site. He's got some other great tips as well.
Sept. 22, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Again, no disrespect but how do you have the exact same bat speed right down to the exact MPH with a bat more than 10% heavier than the other? Just not logical.

Kind of like telling a 200 pound man that if we wore a 25-pound vest he would run the exact same 40 time as without it. Doubtful, very doubtful.
Sept. 22, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
As I read the post again, more illogic. A heavier bat would be able to sustain bat speed through inertia better than a lighter one. Think about it, would you rather be tackled by a 200 pound man running 20mph into you or a 230 pound man at the exact same speed. Just as lighter balling balls deflect off of pins instead of carrying through them, a lighter man would deflect easier and a lighter bat would do the same.

Sept. 22, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Oops, that should be lighter "bowling" balls.
Sept. 22, 2009
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
You can't compare apples to oranges. Hitting a softball it totally diiferent than your analogies of bowling and tackling. There are many scientific studies on the subject all over the internet. Logically speaking the data suggests bat speed is important in hitting. Just how you get it and maintain it is the key to the whole thing.
Sept. 22, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Not so sure it is totally different. Mass, momentum and inertia are mass, momentum, and inertia.

No doubt bat speed is important, but X mph with a 30 ounce bat will provide more maintainable momentum than X mph with anything lighter. Just stands to reason.
Sept. 22, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
33 don't bother with him,he is just here to argue.he is a non-player(as he was cut by the senior team he tried to play for).to him ray demarini didn't exsit.i have the video of demarini explaining and showing the diff in the bat speeds before and after ball contact speed,with speed guns.yes its the one with larry carter.and like you have said,larry's bat speed didn't diminish enough to warrent him to drop down from the 30 oz bat to a lighter one,when you dry swing at 85-95 mph doesn't mean your gonna keep it going.
it is after contact speed is what is needed to hit the ball its hardest and longest.so if thats a 26 oz bat that is what you use,and not a 30 oz bat.
Sept. 22, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
sad dog, would you please enlighten us with how a lighter bat will sustain momentum and a heavier bat going the same speed will not?
Sept. 22, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
watch the video
Sept. 23, 2009
PJ3P
Men's 50
68 posts
I'm not sure who declared Ray Demarini the god of all softball knowledge, but you girls are free to keep swinging your little fast pitch bats and I'll keep winning every home run derby I enter. :)
Sept. 23, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
I don't think any one declared that but there are many good ones that actually show while demonstrating their techniques, Ray has one of those... Many others are around. Some are really only a great hitter hitting bombs but no complete explanation on techniques. They do show some. See if this one opens it's pretty good, If not email me I'll sent it that way.
tait_ebay@yahoo.com
HipWristSnapG-1.wmv
Sept. 23, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
well pj you can keep winning them,i personally don't enter them for my own reasons.ray doesn't say he knows all,but if you do watch his vid,it shows the diff in bat speed,before and after contact of the ball.he does say that if you can keep your speed up with the heavier bat,than you should use it.its all about how much bat speed you can maintain after you make contact,the more the better,thats all.like he said he can dry swing bats up to 29 oz at 95 mph,but his best after contact speed is with a 26 oz bat(by almost 10 mph)than any of the other weights.
Sept. 23, 2009
Mr. Manassas
225 posts
I agree with all those gentlemen that say that there is a definite connextion between the speed of the bat and the speed of the bat after striking the ball. It has to be associated with the weight of the batter and the strenth of the batter. it is my opinion that the heavier the bat is that an individual can swing at a maximum speed would seem to be the one he/she should choose....not a sermon...
Sept. 23, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
Mr M,i'm fairly good size(well weight wise)and decent strenght,and i use a 26 oz bat.it gives me a good after contact speed,so size/strenght is not the only factor.i know big and strong guys that can't maintain thier bat speed after ball contact.you would be surprised on how far bat speed drops after contact.
as ray says,yes use the heaviest bat that will let you maintain your max after ball contact speed.
Sept. 23, 2009
Captain Marauder
Men's 65
67 posts
hey dog who you playing with at Huntsman, we will be in Mequite first then St.george Playing 60 ball, look me up
Sept. 24, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
i'm playing 55 with california hitman,since jimmy and them have gone up to 55's(i didn't know they were gonna do it,till it was to late)so i'm looking for a 50 team also.i get to do 60 next yr.
Sept. 24, 2009
Captain Marauder
Men's 65
67 posts
Mad Dog ,Good stuff, talk to you there, I got a green combat Virus 28oz to trade if you know someone .I will bring it to Huntsman
Sept. 24, 2009
Mr. Manassas
225 posts
Mad Dog...I would say that the fact is not so much that some of the big guys that you mention can't maintain their bat speed through the swing is that their bat speed is not the same as yours at contact. I know plenty of guys that have no bat speed to speak of.
Sept. 24, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
MR M that can be so(no bat speed to start with)but you still need the after contact speed to propel the ball hard and far,regardless.so i would say you need to power thru the ball(after contact speed).i venture to say anyone with with no bat speed to speak of,will not be hitting a ball to far.

george i will ask around.
Sept. 25, 2009
Torco
16 posts
Well the weight is in the handle by your wrist/hands not the end unless its a maxload 1/2 oz or a super maxload 1 oz. as in a Miken, so the weight is only in the handle each bat, weight is the same stock til a handle weight is added to go from 26 to 30oz. so the weight aint doing a thing to help with hitting unless its a end weighted model.
Sept. 26, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
torco,i use the endloaded combats.its also why i say bat speed after contact is the most important part of your swing(not b/c i use combats) with all bats.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners