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Discussion: EASTERN NATIONAL\'S SCHEDULES

Posted Discussion
July 29, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
EASTERN NATIONAL'S SCHEDULES
DRAFT Game Schedules, Double Elimination Bracktes and the Master Games and Fields Schedule have been posted here and are available from the links on the Home Page ... Please note that these items are subject to revision and become "official" ONLY when published and distributed at the Managers' Meetings the evening before play begins ... Good luck to all! ... DAVE
July 29, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
Revisions were made to the MEN'S 65-Division Round Robin schedule late Saturday (Revision date: 07/30/2006) ... All other Divisions have Revision date of 07/29/2006 ... Good luck to all! ... DAVE
July 30, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
The Men's 55-AA Division Round Robin has been revised (Rev. date: 07/30/2006) to correct an error on my part in the origional Draft, and I apologize for any inconvenience ... DAVE
Aug. 1, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
Men's 50-Bronze and 50-Major Divisions have schedule revisions dated 08/01/2006 to reflect the inclusion of one additional team in the 50-Bronze Division (affects R.R. & D.E.) ... The 50-Major changes affect the D.E. Bracket on Saturday afternoon only ... Good luck to all! ... DAVE
Aug. 2, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
Eastern 50-Major+ and 60-AA Schedule Revisions were made today (Wednesday) to reflect two forfeit games that will occur in Friday's Round Robin in the 50-Major+ Division ... Pine Knob will not be able to play their Friday games and their opponents were awarded forfeit victories ... To ensure that all teams have their 5-game guarantee met, the two teams that were awarded forfeit wins will play each other in a game that will not count in the Round Robin Standings ... This additional 'exhibition' game required one game in the 60-AA Division to be moved as to time ... We apologize for any inconvenience ... DAVE
Aug. 3, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
Men's 50-Bronze Schedule revisions (again!) were made on Thursday to reflect the inability and/or unwillingness of two teams to play in the Friday Round Robin games ... Pinnacle Professional Planning (MI) and the Detroit Jaguars (MI) have both been assessed two forfeit losses for Friday and will be the last two seeds in the Double Elimination Bracket, regardless of the results of thie single Round Robin games on Saturday morning ... Schedule revisions were made to ensure that the other six teams in the Division will have the 5-game minimum guarantee met ... Despite the fact that these changes were totally outside of our control, we apologize for any inconvenience ... The Master Games and Fields Grid has also been revised for these changes ... Good luck to all! ... DAVE
Aug. 4, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
Dave, What is going on??? Why are these 3 teams NOT playing on Friday (Pine Knob, Pinnacle & Jaguars)?

Is this going to be a new standard, don't play on Friday & only Sat.& Sunday? Take the forfiets & right to the DE?

Wasn't this advertised as a 3 day tourney??
Aug. 4, 2006
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
606 posts
I am at a loss why the three teams that can not make it are from Michigan. All the rest of us are taking time off from work or life to be there, not to mention hotel costs, etc.
Aug. 4, 2006
ritter69
Men's 55
20 posts
Dave, since you pointed it out, " what does inability and/or unwillingness of two 5o bronze teams to play in the round robin on friday" actually mean. Especially the "and/or unwillingness" part. what are you saying?? Everyone else is making adjustments for Friday. The Jags were in Champaign, Il and Rock Hill, SC on a Friday to play!!!
Now the schedule has been changed Twice. It was changed once because of a Late entry and now because of "inability and/or unwillingness of two teams". What is going on??? this was a three day tourney since JAN 06. So 6 other teams have to adjust because some can't or unwilling! Amazing!!
Aug. 4, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
RedEye and Nancy and Ritter ...

Let me clarify what was (obviously) a poor choice of words on my part ... There has probably been some confusion by some people in the fact that the Eastern Nationsls went from a 2-day tourney last year to a 3-day event this year ... Regardless of how it was posted on the Tournaments page, most all of us remember the precedent from year to year ...

By 'unwillingness', I simply, and accidentally, inferred that some of these teams chose not to play for reasons other than conflicts of professional and personal commitments ... That is a wrong inference for which I apologize ...

The SSUSA office, because of the change of format this year, instructed me to make the schedules (and subsequent changes) so as to ensure that ALL teams participating are guaranteed at least 5 games, and that the format include "Double Elimination" brackets to determine the champions ... This approach is a better solution than just informing the teams of 'gaps' in the schedule at the Managers' Meeting ... I hope this answers some of your questions and concerns, and I would be happy to talk with any of you next week in Lansing prior to or at the Tournament ...

Again, I apologize for the misconception I (solely) created and wish you all the best of luck ...

DAVE
Aug. 4, 2006
face
Men's 55
24 posts
Dave - so please enlighten the rest of us as to the real reasons the 3 MICHIGAN teams that cannot play on friday. I think that we all deserve to know the real reasons, especially since the rest of us have to travel to Michigan and spend Thursday night there as well as Friday and Saturday, What was wrong with scheduling the games for later in the day on Friday instead of at 9:00 AM on Friday??
Aug. 4, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
Dave, Thanks for Clarifing your statement. Hey we all are human & sometimes choose the wrong wording in how we try to explain something. No problem.

It still is a shame that this has happened. Anytime you have gaurenteed games & then something like this happens it throws it all of kiltered. I have had to draw up brackets the day of because of NO SHOWS & it can cause some headaches for the TD & UIC's.

By the way, Thanks for doing the brackets & then filling them out afterwards. Many of us softball junkies really apprieacte it. Keep up the good work.

Wish I was going up there, because I would surely look you up & shake your hand.
Aug. 4, 2006
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
606 posts
Dave, this was in no way personal to you; you are doing a great job for what you have to work with sometimes. I just fail to understand how everyone else "got it" but the teams from Michigan. I would have no problem of allowances being made for a team from far away but not local. Since I know that one of the teams was at two out-of-state tournaments on Friday, I am not sure what that means about not being available to play close to home. I guess that it must be easier to field the strongest team on Saturdays and Sundays there.
Aug. 4, 2006
fran44
Men's 55
40 posts
Dave: please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that if a team does not participate in the intial bracket play then that team would not be allowed to play in the double elimination championship segment? Just looking for an offical interpretation as I am not playing in this particular tournment.
Aug. 4, 2006
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
The 50-Bronze (R.R. & D.E.) and the 50-Major (D.E. only) Division schedules have been revised to reflect the withdrawal today (Friday) of a previously entered and scheduled team ... Changes are comprehensive to the 50-Bronze Division and relatively insignificant to the 50-Major Bracket ... The revisions are posted here and available from the links on the Home Page ... The 'Participating Teams List' and 'Master Games & Fields Grid' have been updated accordingly ... Good luck to all! ... DAVE
Aug. 5, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Our team did not have enough players on Fri. for Champaigne. However, we should our comittment and good faith by showing up and playing what we could. In our case it was employer/employee siturations at the last minute. Then the Jags decided not to play us without a full team and respectfully that was their choice. Howver, the one team that we did play, we met several new friends. Sure we took our lumps and took a while to regroup, but by damn, if you make a team comittment,by all means, hold to it. We are not just talking softball here but a way of life.
Aug. 5, 2006
turn2
484 posts
so does this mean we can just forfiet the practice games and just play in the de games. this does not seem right but if that can be done just let everyone know and we casn all save some vacation time and hotel money for that extra day.
my 2 cents
donnie
turn two collectibles
Aug. 5, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Donnie; as I had mentioned in another reply on another subject, almost all large tournaments that come into a city, they have to guarantee X amount of days and minimum number of teams. Thus the one or two games per day during the round robin days. Then more time is to be spent within the local municipality: rooms to be rented: meals; entertainment and of course carry-outs. Big businness first and softball second....
Aug. 7, 2006
BA24
1 posts
Dave, First of all thanks for all of the hard work in accomodating the schedule changes. As for Pinnacle, we take these tournaments seriously and never wanted to create any difficulties for any of the other tournament teams or you. We appreciate you accomodating our situation but, without going into any details, we had no choice but to either withdraw or ask for the forfeits for Friday. As it stands, we still will not be able to field our best team this weekend but we'll be competitive and do the best we can. Thanks for understanding and we look forward to another well run. competitive and fun tournament.
Aug. 9, 2006
Bread
11 posts
Cat.
Im one of the players unable to play in my (back yard) do to work issues.
There are 2 players still injured and unable to play from the worlds.
There is also 2 other players unable to play FRI. do to personal issues. All the above mentioned are starters on the JAGS!!
So you do the math.
You say you want to play the Champs and Im sure C is trying to provide the best team the JAGS can field!!!
Looking forward to playiing you down the line !!!
CJ
Aug. 9, 2006
CAT
148 posts
I did the math....Sure you may not have the best team for Friday, but honor your comittment and take what players you have, ask Terry H. if you can borrow a few players from other teams or your 50+league and go out to play those teams that expect to get in their RR games. That is the problem, if teams cannot field their best, they just don't show up. Again, it is called comittment ! You pay, you should be expected to play. Is it fair for a team to play 3 RR games in this heat and expect to be fresh on Sat. to play against a team that just shows up for Sat ?? .....It is just not only the Jags, but just a way of our times. Oh, by the way.... we did try to play you and we did not have enough guys and your team decided with your injury issue and /or being tired from the previous game, not to play. Think both sides lost out on meeting some nice guys and making new friendships. As they say "There are two sides to every coin! Good luck to you guys...
Aug. 9, 2006
Bread
11 posts
Cat
I was unable to make Fri. at Champaigne also due to (WORK)
my First commitment.
I suppose we should throw out all the rosters and go back to sandlot baseball and pick teams when we get there.
You had Sat, and Sun, to play us ???
Good Luck in Lansing...Wish I could be there.
CJ
Aug. 9, 2006
Bob50
Men's 60
239 posts
The problem here is two-fold. How do you guantee a minimum number of games and have the greatest participation when certain teams cannot play some or all of the round robin games? And secondly, how to prevent a team from benefitting when they don't play round robin games by being the fresher team without chance of injury problems.

It seems to me that associations, obviously for financial reasons, need to guarantee a certain number of teams for a certain number of days to make money, stay viable and be able to host future tournaments.

However when that goal gets in the way of fairness in a tournament it is counterproductive to the main goal and that is particpiation.

Many teams travel and individual teammates pay substantial sums to travel around the country to particpate in various tournaments. So the financial investment or loss cannot be considered one-sided between the assoication and its particpants.

I don't believe there is an adequate remedy to the financial side of not being able to play a minimum number of games. We all travel to tournaments to play the game. We don't look to play the round robin games with the same importance as the real part of the tournament--double elimination.

It seems that a team that cannot play in the round robin should feel a greater loss than just a lower seeding for the tournament. If you don't want this to get out of hand I would suggest a more drastic penalty. Miss two round robin games by foreit puts you in the losers bracket to start the tournament. Also penalize teams (sorry Dayton Legends) with a forfeiture of your team tournament fee if a team withdraws for any reason.

This will encourage only teams to sign up that know they can field a team for the entire tournament. By doing this tournament directors will start to eliminate all the scheduling changes that are necessary when teams pull out for all or part of a tournament for any reason. When this occurs it causes other teams to continue changing their plans for when they are scheduled to play and informing their players. Which aside from a financial issue is time consuming.

I know these are drastic actions but this whole issue is ready to get out of hand unless it is addressed rapidly.

I certainly welcome comment and would be interested if players agree.

Bob Schulz
Chicago Classics 55 Blue
Aug. 10, 2006
2OLD4THIS
1 posts
It's good to see everbody is having fun and looking forward to playing in Lansing.

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