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Online now: 3 members: Matty507, dillydilly, hbhkydad; 13 anonymousDiscussion: To \"BB\" or not to \"BB?
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| Jan. 8 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | I love pitching, plan to do a DVD on it sometime and love to think, talk and learn anything related to pitching to win at the highest level. My best friend, Ron Joseph, and I just got off the phone and he had a very stimulating idea about how unfair it is to pitch around a monster hitter like Barry Bonds so to keep from being able to "get away" with it, you keep adding a base for every walk rendered. So, for the first walk the batter goes to first. For the second walk to the same batter, the batter goes to second. Then to third, then home with a run scored forcing all the base runners ahead of him/her. There's no doubt in my mind that if you really want to pitch/win a game at the highest level there are some batters who are so good it's better not to pitch to them at all. Guys like Don Clatterbaugh, Mike Burbank, Rick Perez come immediately to mind but of course there are others. So if you look at the stats for a 900 hitter with pop like Clatterbaugh you will realize that he does more damage swinging than walking and more importantly he doesn't get a chance to "ignite" or excite his teammates into more confident batting behavior. I know as a pitcher that I want the walk to stay as it is because I use it to my advantage but if Clatterbaugh got a base added for each walk it might make the "contest" more fair. |
| Jan. 9 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | That would be like going back to competative co-ed ball. I'm against your idea. Sorry, but if you play at that level, pitch at it, as well. |
| Jan. 9 hombre Men's 60 240 posts | With Clatterbaugh's supporting cast, you're not gaining a whole lot by walking him. Even if that weren't the case, my thought is to leave the walk rule as is. There are some rules that should be changed,but in my opinion, this isn't one of them. |
| Jan. 9 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Hombre, Sounds like you know the caliber of teams that Don tends to play for and I won't go any farther expaining or defending why it's a good idea to walk him or guys like him because it will may give away some of my pitching mojo but there's more more involved with pitching than most senior softball players realize because a very good pitcher can take control of a game at any level. |
| Jan. 9 hombre Men's 60 240 posts | Einstein, We played Spicers a total of 10 times last year, due to the lack of 60 major+ teams in the East. There were times when he was walked, but the end result was usually the same. When you walk a 900 hitter with power to get to an 800 hitter with power you don't usually see a much of a difference. Good luck. |
| Jan. 9 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | There's a lot to what you have said but it's an easy argument that Clatter is the best hitter in the country without peers and as such becomes the Offense "leader" on any club so that keeping him under wraps and not leading the way a la William Wallace in Braveheart can have a dramatic non affect on his teammates. Aaaaaarrrrghhhhh! I've always felt loosened and more free to swing behind the likes of Clatter, Burbank and Perez. |
| Jan. 9 DoubleL10 Men's 70 907 posts | Joe, I totally agree with you on your comment about being able to "free swing" hitting behind Clatta. I hit behind Don when we played for Florida Orange Crush in 1996 and Dan Smith in 1998 and 1999. It gave me more focus hitting behind someone who got walked a lot. Never had the good fortune to play with Burbank or Perez but, from your comments on this board, I'm looking forward to seeing those guys get some swings this year! Keep up the rehab and see you on the fields in a few months! |
| Jan. 10 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | joe-joe we know why u would walk clatter now,by the way glad to see the arm is getting better.the intentional walk can be agravating to the walkee,they come to play(and sometimes if not most pay their money)and would like to get their money's worth.yes i know its a team game but jeezz let them play.i've had it happen to me and some teamates and when u get walked int without regard to game situation(needing a force to be avail to def or late inning and a guy has been killing ya yes maybe)it gets to be ridiculess(sp).i like the penalty in walking someone int.now maybe we can have that person be designated as the one,kinda like usssa used to do when they had hr hitters instead of hr numbers,the hr hitter back then if walked auto got 2 bases. |
| Jan. 10 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Bob and Larry, Thanks for asking about the arm. It's almost back to normal and I can't wait to get back the mound. I have some serious conditioning to get through first but I'm on the case. The reason I got hit by Clatter a couple of months ago as I've said to many was because I wasn't paying attention, that is, ready to field my position. That's not fair to me, Don, my teammates or anyone and it won't happen, again. I had even turned sideways after pitching it ready to watch the ball go somewhere hard through the right side. Normally, I get that ball on the fly and Clatter walks back to the bench. I understand why Clatter or anyone comes to hit and it's frustrating to get pitched around but I will continue to pitch to WIN and invite Clatter or anyone to come through the box cause 2 things will happen. One, he's going back and sit down 0 for 1 and two, you open up the middle for my guys at the expense of their pitcher. I also want my perspective teammates to know that I will offer my protection for our pitcher and require protection from my teammates when pitching. It's the only way to play the game. |
| Jan. 10 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i'm with ya joe, on when i've been hit(not that many times)it was b/c of not paying attention on my part.i do not mind being hit at also for the same reasons you state,easy out for my team.now alls i have to do when i'm pitching is to have the batters keep it in the park. i have been our protector out here in tx now for my pitchers and myself in the kids leagues and tourney's i play in.they are slowly getting the message,usaully don't have much problems in the senior ball. |
| Jan. 11 audieh Men's 60 249 posts | Einstein, I just love your competitiveness. I would pay good money to see a video of your pitching strategy. I believe a "thinking " pitcher is worth his weight in gold. Not only on pitching to the batters weakness but also fielding the position and backing up throws from the outfield, etc. I personally hate to walk anybody and particular if it is intentional. I rarely do it unless forced to by others higher up in the food chain. Yes, late in the game it can be effective but usually if you walk the super star you better walk the next batter as well. Is it worth it to now have two on? My own personal experience is if I'm hitting around 600 and you walk somebody to get to me then that extra slap in the face forces me to concentrate more and I become a 850 with a long ball. I'm sure others feel the same way. We have faced the best hitters that senior ball can produce and my own experience is go after the super star. Make him prove his worth BUT, you better have a pitcher that can pitch to his weakness. I feel if we can make a truely great hitter like Clatter or Parnell or Perez, etc. go 2 for 4 then we are pitching/fielding well. My favorite tactic is to basically pull my infielders and outfielders from the position the super star will typically hit, he then sees that his alley is open and is chomping at the bit, my pitcher knows not to pitch the ball in the batters power stroke and many times in the eagerness to hit his spot the super star will try to drive the ball into what he perceives as an open alley. Ahhhh, however, my fielders are instructed to on the beginning motion of the pitcher run and fill those lanes. This will usually work one time a game. You have to know when to use it and it takes coordination on at least 4 players parts. Then again, many times the super star will not bite on the pitch or just knock the dang thing 400. I guess my point is to leave the walk rules as they are. But go ahead and let us in on how a big time pitcher uses strategy to win games! |
| Jan. 13 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Audie, You mentioned pitching to a batters weakness which screams to your understanding of just what is involved with pitching to win at any level. I used to be a hardball catcher and you wouldn't be surprised to know how much a batter reveals about what he can hit well and what he can't. His stance, his demeanor(patience), his posture, his hands-- all reveal important info about his intentions and capabilitites. Most batters even in major plus have preferences and tendencies. The more you watch a batter swing the more he reveals about himself. I don't want to give up too much info because I do plan to make a DVD and I don't want to give up too much "stuff" to my adversaries so I will be guarded but great pitching deals with changing and messing with, a batter's sense of timing. But, the key for me is having a team that plays Defense as good or better than their offense especially in the infield. You don't have to worry about walks when you have defense that is poised and anticipates turning the DP and when you have a double or triple play in order, it puts pressure on the batters to not hit a ground ball anywhere near a fielder and pressure is what any big game pitcher is trying to add to any/all batters. No batter wants to hit into an inning ending, rally ending, game ending tournament ending double play and the best pitcher looks to keep the double play in order as much as possible allowing the batter to spend as much time as possible exposed to what it is he doesn't want to happen. It can change a hitter from swinging offensively and free to defensively and tight which is obviously advantageous to the defense. |
| Jan. 14 bashbro1 Men's 70 267 posts | Hey Joe! It's your "good buddy" BASH! I think you and I are close enough friends for you to "comp" me one of your initial DVD copies...maybe a "Directors Cut"? I hate paying full-boat for stuff, if you know what I mean! Did I not pay for your hamburger in Seattle last Sept. @ the Tav just before I was asked to leave? LOL bashbro1 (W.E. Ruth 60's Communications Officer/Player/WebMaster/Cheapskate) |
| Jan. 14 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Bash, You and Bogie both get autographed, gold-leaf copies of my DVD hand delivered by naked Playboy bunnies. If you really want to know inside stuff about pitching and batters let me know and I'll email you, directly. I miss you and the fun we had in Seattle. |
