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Discussion: Are new boundries that bad??

Posted Discussion
Jan. 25, 2005
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Are new boundries that bad??
I saw that some of the Major and Major+ players were upset with the boundry decision. Back in 2002 worlds in Phoenix, I talked to a guy sitting in the stands. I asked if he was playing. He said no because only "2" major plus teams entered in his age group. They decided they didn't want to play the same team five times as they were asked to do. He said moving up to major+ was the biggest mistake of his career. It might look good for you 50s guys now but as you move up in age classes, people die and physically can't play anymore. The number of Major+ teams will drop quickly. You may well end up playing down in age class and get pounded. I play for the Chicago Classic softball club. We started with 3 teams and now have 6. We have won "7" world/national titles in our 3 years as a club. Point of this is that very high 90's % of our players come from the Chicagoland area. My 60AA team that won it in Vegas this year all live within about a 25 mile radius. Remember Field of Dreams-build it and they will come. You major+ guys have hidden talent in your small area that can be highly competitive. Go find it. By limiting the area from which you can recruit, more guys might find players for new teams and increase the number of teams. Many of our local park districts have started senior leagues and some terrific players have come out of the wood work to join our organization who knew nothing about senior softball. Maybe it is time for major+ to go away and just have 3 levels. Major-AAA-AA. It would certainly make for some highly competitive nationals with many teams entering at each level.
Jan. 26, 2005
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
I might agree with you, Gary, if there was a more distinct demarcation line in the rules between the three divisions AND players (at least at the major level) were rated. If the major divisions allowed unlimited home runs and eliminated the 5 run rule; if the AAA level allowed one home run with all others being outs; and if the AA level allowed no home runs and all over the fence were outs, then, perhaps, players would gravitate toward the proper levels. However, under the current rules I believe the geographical restrictions should not apply to Major Plus because - face it - there are too few of us that can play at that level (myself included) to have meaningful tournaments.
Jan. 26, 2005
Robo2
222 posts
I disagree with some of the ratings. There is a big difference between Major + and Major. Yes, I agree that Major + should have no restrictions, but no I believe Major should still allow 6 homers and singles after that. The major difference between these two divisions is that the Major + may have 9 players that can hit them out, while a Maor team may have 3 or 4. Limiting a Major team to only one homer then outs takes too much away from the game. Too many things change the game as it is with time limits; runs per inning; some times a ball and strike count; etc. Also, teams should not be forced into Major + division unless they have routinely won at the Major level.
Jan. 26, 2005
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
ROBO2: I have played in games were a player has hit 2 H.R. out in 1 inning. I have played & seen
some players hit 3-4 H.R. out in 1 game. There r players that can ave 2 or more H.R. a game when these players r in a hot streak. H.R.'s should @ least be a single once the limit has been reached.
RULE..RULES.. & MORE RULES???
What will happen w/ these rules when a player is stuck in AA or AAA do to his geo. location. Do u know how much pain it is to hit a H.R. 4 an out? Do u think it is fun playing this game when one goes up to the plate & worries about hitting the ball to hard, over therfenceFAIRNESS in SOFTBALL? If, a team has only 1 H.R. hitter, why, should his 2ND H.R. be an out? What about a team that has 4 H.R. hitters or a MAJOR PLUS team that has 10 plus players that can jack?
Jan. 26, 2005
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
Sorry, hit the wrong key. Players should be allowed to play & have fun. Reguardless of thats player talant.
SENIOR PLAYERS, should not be bothered by rules that will not allow a player to play or enjoy the game. It is not fun 4 any player to go to the plate & have to worry about hitting the ball to hard & seeing the ball fly over the fence 4 an out. Some leagues & orgin.'s have set rules that once a team is out of H.R.'s the next H.R. ends the inning. Last yr., I hit 40 H.R.'s for outs. Several were w/ no out & the inning was over. In one game last yr., we were out of H.R.'s & 3 batters hit H.R.'s in a roll. 3 batters & 9 outs. THIS IS NOT SOFTBALL.
Jan. 26, 2005
Robo2
222 posts
I agree the we should just play ball. However, I would agree to allowing 6 HRs for Major with singles afterward. Although I would prefer no limit. I have been in the situation where I hit a grand slam for an out in the over 45s. What can you do but laugh and go back to the bench. Yes, it is safer to have no limit, or at least singles after the limit, because it would lower the number of times a power hitter goes up the middle in trying to avoid the over the fence out. The bottom line is we pay to play, so let's play the game without added restriction.
Jan. 26, 2005
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Maybe it is time that you learn to be a good hitter instead of a basher.
Jan. 26, 2005
Robo2
222 posts
Fred, it sounds like you want everyone to Regress to the Mean - don't allow others to use the talents God gave them or work out hard to strengthen oneself - make rules so that all become equal. The most exciting play in softball or baseball is the Home Run.
Jan. 26, 2005
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
No, What I am saying is that you know what the rules are before you play. Why are you hitting home runs when you know that they are going to be outs. That makes no sense to me at all. If you can't swing to keep the ball in the park then maybe it is time to learn how instead of complaining.

A good player adapts to rules that he is playing under.
Jan. 26, 2005
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
Sorry, Charlie, but, u have made me angry.
FRED SCERRA: 1st off, I try & not tell other players how to play their game. Since u do not know me or my 'talant', why, r u being a jerk? Who, made u my ball buster? 2nd, I have power to all fields. 3rd, most teams that I play against try to pitch me inside & deep.

WHO r u to tell me to swing EZ or to try & poke the ball over an infielders head? This is not fun to me. 'If, given the right pitch, I can still hit the ball down the right field line & out of the park.

I have 'great power' & can run quite well 4 a 230lb man. By being able to hit the ball hard, the outfielders play @ 280' plus & not @ 220'. Also, the infielders play @ the grass & if, they don't come up w/ the ball clean, I will get on. By hitting the ball hard, the fielders must run, field the ball, & be able to throw the ball.

So, Fred, is not hitting the ball hard, running hard (taking the extra base), making the oposition play defense part of the game?

Fred, because I can hit home runs & there r very few leagues that allow more than 1 home run, were do power hitters play? Do, u think I go up to the plate & try to hit a ball out for an inning ending out?

I will learn just what I chose to learn, when I am ready! Not because u , FRED, THE SOFTBALL GOD, thinks I should change my game & learn u're way of playing softball.

Since, u Fred, r giving me advise & think that I need to learn the game, here is my advise to u,"old man, since u can't hit it out, shut up. U play u're game & let the power hitters play their game. OLD MAN, u play AA & I will play w/ the young men & a 40+ team.'
ANY QUESTION, OLD MAN?
Jan. 26, 2005
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
it is hard to define a boundry or to say who is a major or major +. The number of major + teams are droping I feel because organization move up a major team becausr they have a good tourney and win then they become a Major + team. therefore you play the next year in that division and get the living fool beat out of them 60% of the time. then they disband or regroup to play down again. Most of the maor + is sponsor team with most if not all expenses paid for. Alot of the major and AAA are self sponsored and can not play on the same level with Major + teams. In fairness to players that can play on and upper level i think the rules need to be looked at to allow them to play instead of restrict them.
Jan. 26, 2005
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
STONEMAN for you info I can still put it over a 280' fence.

The object of the game is to win. Hitting home runs for outs is not playing the game to win.
Jan. 26, 2005
biggeorge
Men's 60
25 posts
As in the bat section, I repeat, if softballs were wound core and bats were spun aluminum like they used to be, this whole topic would be moot. Softball was never intended to be a game of homeruns and that is the reason organizations like The National Slow-Pitch Conference were formed. At 6'7, 265, I remember when it was a task to hit a Dudley Red Stitch 300" after 2 innings, let alone should the wind be blowing in. Making the homerun special again is the answer, not putting rules on how many a 155 lb guy can hit per game with state of the art bats and balls.
Jan. 26, 2005
Joncon
289 posts
==========================
""The object of the game is to win. Hitting home runs for outs is not playing the game to win.""
=========================


Fred. What if we change the rules to make singles an out.

Would you quietly obey the rules or would you voice your objection.

HRs=out=dumb

Too many classifications. All we need is upper and lower. Teams should be allowed to play with both upper and lower players mixed.
Jan. 27, 2005
Robo2
222 posts
Is it me or does it seem that the people that want to change the game or initiate new rules are the ones that cannot compete the way they are now and the only way to compete is make sure those that are successful have restrictions. Why not say it is illegal to lift weights or work out because those that do are too strong to complete with the ones that don't? Home Run limits don't only change the swing after they are used up, they also change the swing so that we don't swing away when one or no runners are on base. That is not fun.
Jan. 27, 2005
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
before senior softball ,i guessing everyone played in the all ages div ( aka super,majo,aa,a,b,c,d,e) right. what did we do then.we played in the div that suited us and states didn't stop us.why can't we do that now
Jan. 28, 2005
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
Mad Dog...interesting thought. Perhaps that would be a way of getting players into levels they should be. Joncon...making home runs outs is not meant to penalize...it is meant to keep the players whose egos want to make them big fish in small ponds from dropping down into brackets they don't belong; thus, spoiling the competition equality. It would be ideal if everyone would try and play at the proper level but, while I realize this may be difficult in some situations, the big problem is egos. Thus, the home run rule. If you think back to Mad Dog's suggestion, even back when we played in A, B, C, D, E, etc., there were different home run rules for the same reason. The big problem is to get more COMPETITIVE teams at the higher levels. Perhaps we have too many divisions and Major Plus should be eliminated; perhaps not. Perhaps there should be a Major Plus division for fully sponsored teams that doesn't recognize boundaries; perhaps not. Discussions are warrented; AD HOMINEM attacks are not. Discussions should center on what is best for Senior Softball; not what is best for an individual. I don't always agree with the association decisions; however, keep this in mind - even if you are the most pessimistic individual who sees conspiracy around every corner, the owners of those associations are not going to make decisions they believe will cost them players or teams. If teams boycot their associations because of decisions they will soon change those decisions. That isn't happening to any effective degree, though, so either the majority agrees with those decisons or is appathetic about them. In either case, the owners have no reason to change them so we have to decide whether or not to play. No one is making us play, so it is a personal decision.
Jan. 28, 2005
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
stever:

Well Said.
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