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Discussion: game of the 90's

Posted Discussion
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
game of the 90's
here is a link to another softball board about the game in the 90's.read it and tell me what you think.

http://www.softballfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745493
Dec. 29, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Very interesting reading. They present an entirely different perspective.
It would appear we arent alone after all.
Thanks Dog.
Dec. 29, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Bob you've been around longer than me why have all the important senior associations in lock step kept the livelier bat/ball combo? I know they do not get along so if one thought by reducing the standards would hurt the others you can bet they would. Some have tried to dial it back and have been driven to the brink of extinction. I doubt the equipment manufacturers give a crap what they sell so I doubt that is the reason. ASA, NSA and UTRIP basically don't have functioning senior divisions. Even if I agree with you the evidence does not seem to support your position.
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
LECAK(JOE),what has happen i think,is the senior assoc's see a way to make money over the other assoc(ASA,NSA,USSSA),by keeping the banned bats around IMO,and now creating a whole new market.what better way than to keep hot bats.now they make you sign a waiver for getting hurt(if you want to pitch),just seems a little hypercrtical to me as there is no safety for the pitch even with the called for safety equipment.yes there has always been a chance of getting hurt,but not to the extent that we can be hurt now with this hot combo we have now to play with,which can lead to death or real bad injuries.
Dec. 29, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Bob.........Which ball were we using when the SSUSA made the U2 and approved bat? I know that the U2 has not gotten any hotter in the last 8 years.
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
sal,hey whats up,long time no see.it was a 47-525 if i remember right.first time i used a u-2 was at worlds that year and i hit a ball that 1-hopped a RCF'er and hit him in his knee,the ball ended up in center field and he went down.i also hit a ball to center field(hr) i would swear looked like it never got higher than 20' off the ground.guys on my team were saying "ddaaammmnnnn bob".i would have no prol with going back to the pre-composite days.lets use metal and see who the real hitters are.i'm sure you would have no prol still hitting them out sal,maybe not as many.
another story,when i first got up to lemoore NAS in late 02 nov(navy base)i was trying out for the team they had on base that spring of 03(they let civiy's play)and was hitting with my est and had them all impressed,than i brought out the u-2 to seal the deal(:0).what i really think they wanted was a pitcher who wasn't afriad to get on the mound and throw strikes,LOL.
Dec. 29, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
I don't know about going all the way back to pre-composites. Play ASA a lot using an Extended. The problem with going without senior bats is that I own too many. Since you're playing 60's now, perhaps I'll see you at SPA or Phoenix. I don't think we will go to Reno. Playing in Menifee on the 9th and 10th. Should be a lot of masks out there. Too damn cold to be getting hit.
Dec. 29, 2009
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
I remember playing with the wood bats when I first started playing and then came the metal bats which was going to change and ruin softball forever... then changes in all the equipment came gloves, shoes, clothing, bat trainning aids and so on and on it goes...All sports evolve as does life you stay current and play hard take advantage of the technology as it comes...Once I see everyone turning off the cells, computers and turning in the new cars for the old with none of the technologies, then maybe I'll forget about the new technolgy from other phases of my life...I did not start playing softball till my late 20's "Softball was for girls" and I was keeping it softball playing under wraps as all my Baseball buddies would be laffing at me... I learned to love the game and evolve with it and play by the rules as they evolve...JMO
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
jolly,i started with wood also,and we could hit them out,we mostly had fences at 250-275',every now and again we would play on a short field 225'(keesler AFB,ms).i don't mind all the tech,but it is far bypassing our body's to be able to play the game without getting seriously hurt or even killed.
hell the pro golfers are doing away the grooves(not sure if its the square or V)
in thier clubs b/c they give to much advantage to the player.whats wrong with doing away with the hot bat or ball we now use,we don't need that much of a advantage to play.
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
sal yeah doing the 60 this yr,most likely will see at SPA if your doing AA or AAA.i have no team around here with any higher rating.
i have finally cut down on my bats,only have 4 senior ones now.sold all those u-2's i had to one of my canadian buddies.
Dec. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Joe,

My question to you would be does the other organizations have younger divisions if they do are they allowed to swing U-2? If not why?

ASA, USSSA, and NSA does so this maybe the reason. I was told by ASA they do their own testing and if the batted balls do not meet a certain safety criteria the bat never will be legal.

The bat is not the problem. You will never ever slow the game down by trying to control the bat.

You said the West ASA got cancelled but the East did not. So maybe that just shows two different ideas about softball. Some players just love to play softball no matter what and some love to play but only in their controlled enviroment.

Of course this is only my opinion.


Dec. 29, 2009
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
mad dog, when you buy your golf equipment when you play or if you play you don't buy the old shats and heads you buy what the most adavnced that would help you in your game... Pros are Pros in any sport and they will and are confined by rules which they follow up to a fine line forthe extra edge...If your worried about pitcher safty then make personel protective equipment a mandatory item... not to be signed away by a waiver which is useless anyway...I respect your opinion... I will play by the rules that are given to us by the differn't organazations... Maybe we could have tourny's that go back to the 90's spec's... but I just don't think you would have a good turnout of teams... Good Luck and Play Hard...
Dec. 29, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Hi Butch. I doubt there is much of a difference between the east and west in terms of player mentality. Although I have to tell taking BP in the winter months is a dirty job but someone's got to do it. I saw something a while ago where UTRIP would love to go after the senior game again but they would not deviate from the rules they offer the younger divisions. Here is my contention if the lesser equipment combo is in such high demand why hasn't anyone jumped in to fill the void. Ridge, Terry, RB Thomas, Greg, the LVSSA board either are missing the boat or they already have gotten the responses they needed to make their decisions about what equipment to use. I've talked to all of the association guys and they don't seem to be asleep at the wheel.
Dec. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Why do you think that the younger divisions are not allowed to use the same equipment?

I think the young guys would want to hit with our equipment. I'm sure you know the answer but it would not make much sense to say it as they have better reflexes and so on.

I will not deny that it is a money maker for senior ball. I'm going to play no matter what bat or ball they use. Has any one thought about bringing back the T-4000 and the Grey Ultra being as seniors are a special group? Now that would be fun with a capital F. Why stop with only senior bats and 44/375 if thats what we want.

Joe hope you had a great Christmas
Dec. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Joe Lecak.
Your point ends all serious discussion
of the lively bat/ball controversy
and what the majority of senior players want
expect and deserve.
I like the waiver idea that
SSUSA has come up with, also
Game, set and match.
Dec. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Einstein,

I agree and like the waiver but I can't get an answer why the young guys can't use our bats. Why do you think?

Does NORCAL have a younger division?
Does Vegas have a younger division?
I know very little about either organization

If so are they allowed to use U-2 and senior combats?

If no then why? If yes then game, set, and match.

If you want hot/balls and hot/bats see if they will go to T-4000 balls and Grey Ultra's why only settle for medium of the road bats and balls.
Dec. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Game set and match, Butch.
What's next?
Oh yeah.
Optic Yellow is a terrible color for balls
given the yellow green backgrounds we tend
to see all summer long.
The balls blend in too much I've noticed
oftentimes when pitching and playing 3rd.
Can anyone tell me or point me to any testing
or rationales for this obviously less than
good decision about ball color?
Dec. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Joe,

I love the bats no problem but Mr. Wizard you didn't answer my questions.
Thats a shock or maybe just a horse of a different color. Curtain just closed on you.
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
butch he will never answer a direct question,b/c he would rather have someone hurt than give up his prescious abilty to hit with a hero bat,real men don't need senior bats to play with.
Dec. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
maddog,

He never answers a question when the answer will not benefit his arguement.

Example: If the best players in our country(USA Team) have home run limits(10) and after that they are outs why should we be any different. If he answers it will be about some yellow ball or something about a complete different subject. Just like the Wizard.
Dec. 29, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Einstein Joe

I have been told the Optic Yellow is
easier to see in all around conditions, and much easier to find when it goes over the fence and into the bush.
Game and set maybe, but the match is far from over! imho
Dec. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
That doesn't make sense to me, John.
I was never good at art or drawing
but it seems to me that contrasting colors are more important to seeing things clearly
than those that blend in/with their backgrounds.
That would have to mean that a white ball
would be easier to pick up in a yellow-green
background than a yellow-green ball.
Does anyone know what tests were used
or criteria were employed to come to the decision that a yellow ball was better to use
outdoors than a white or red one for that matter.
I know I have had difficulty picking a yellow ball up when the background is leafy, grassy,
bush-ee and tree-ee.
And if this is the case shouldn't we
go back to white balls
pending further investigation.
Dec. 30, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
butch.........here in Southern California........open city league, unlimited arc.....U2 is banned, but Combat senior is allowed.
Dec. 30, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I agree with you Joe, in some cases the Optic is more difficult to follow. Although after a few inning with a white ball it gets dirty and is also hard to follow, especially when its hit into a high or cloudy sky.
I remember seeing something written about why the optic yellow is being used, I'll see if I can find it and pass it along. In the mean time maybe TrumpBall can shed some light on the subject.

Sal, where do you play league that allows Senior bats? I know Fountain Valley and Huntington Beach have bans on almost every bat made. I think they would have us uses tree limbs if they could. =(
Dec. 30, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
butch........I forgot that besides all Miken Ultras, the Toloso titanium bats are also banned.
Dec. 30, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Different eyes probably see differently, but I find the yellow ball much easier to see day or night than dirty white balls.
Dec. 30, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
E4/E6..........Glendale is the one described. El Cariso in Sylmar also allows senior bats.

See you in Menifee. I'll be with D&K 60's.
Dec. 30, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
hey butch get your answer yet,LOL.
on the color of the balls,both colors have problems at times.
senior league i play in is ASA bat/ball reg's,and none of us has a prol with it.the guys who can hit it out still do and those who can't work on thier base hitting.also there is defense played,great game.
Dec. 30, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Sal, thanks, Hope to see you in Menifee.

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