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Discussion: Why not go to UNLIMITED ARC

Posted Discussion
March 1, 2011
sgtmcfadden
7 posts
Why not go to UNLIMITED ARC
There are so many discussions about bats. Why not go to unlimited arc and that will give the pitchers more time to back up. It is much harder for people to time the pitch when it is coming almost straight down. We had an unlimited tournament in Michigan and it definitely slows down the big guns. The arc has been lowered so much that a batter might as well throw it up himself and hit it. Just a thought.
March 1, 2011
garyheifner
354 posts
Back in the day, I played on a very good
U-Trip "B" team. Every guy on the team could crush the ball. We often went to an unlimited arc tourney in Wisconsin. Now I will say ahead of time that there was small amounts of beer involved. There were a lot of world class hitters who played. The average scores of the 7 inning games were 2-1 3-2 4-3 etc. I can't remember anyone ever scoring more than 6 or 7. Do we want to take the game there. I pitch in a 14 inch league-unlimited. I can go 20 + feet and hit the mat. It is usually very low scoring. I would rather see 6-10 feet on our arc because there is not an umpire in the nation or known universe who knows what 12 feet is.
March 1, 2011
sgtmcfadden
7 posts
Gary, I would love to take it to lower scoring games. We were at the city mtg. for the Senior softball league for our city. I mentioned going to an unlimited league and 2 guys said: "I guarantee you that I will smash that ball more than ever if we went to unlimited." What's funny is that one of the guys is a pitcher. I just laughed. Nice to hear from someone (you) that really knows the difference. I also thought about bringing in a rule that if someone hits the ball over our 300' fence it should be checked for being illigle. Guys would be mad at that too, but I wouldn't because I use legal bats. Thanks for your input Gary
March 1, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
sgt, i feel with a mat,there should be no limit as well,and i mean lower or higher,it hits the mat its a strike.
March 2, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
How do guys really know how high they are throwing? Is someone out there measuring for you guys? I read that a lot on message boards as if guys are citing facts, but please tell me how you know with the certainty that is expressed how high most any pitch REALLY is.
March 2, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1968 posts
When I started playing we played unlimited arc. We had a couple guys that could bring rain. One had over 50 K's one year at the top level in Albuquerque. No doubt it would cut the offense.
I agree most umpires have a problem with the 10 or 12 foot limit. As long as they are consistent, you can adjust and I have no problem.
Checking every bat after a HR? Really?? Too bad we may have come to this!
March 2, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Measure the height of the fence sections that form the fence and backstop.(most are 6') Stand in a bleacher area and sight at 12' across the infield to an equal fence height on the other side. Anything above that is over 12'.
March 2, 2011
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
back in the 80's my brother and i went to red bluff,ca and played with a team called Dick Harris trucking well anyway Wendell from d h ask me to pitch unlimited arc for a game so i did and around the 3rd inning the ump called me for throwing the ball to high!!! said i was delaying the game! wtf!
March 2, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
That would be nice to see.
Its all about the Angle of the Dangle, equals the Heat of the Meat...

Angle of the ball coming in, is about 45* in 12 foot arc and 65-80* in unlimited.
Dangle = ball
Heat of the meat= batters power
March 2, 2011
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
not to mention but they only had 3 hit at that point! Cecil had to pull me back
March 2, 2011
sgtmcfadden
7 posts
See guys, this is what I am talking about. If we went to unlimited arc, we really wouldn't have to worry about what bat they use. It is very hard to hit a pitch coming straight down. Just like softballer said..they only had 3 hits when they took him out. It seems to be all about the batter.It will be really hard to get this changed, but I am going to push as hard as I can up here in Salem, Or.I appreciate all of your inputs guys.Thanks.
March 2, 2011
Omar Khayyam
989 posts
Good topic, sgt. I, too, pitched back in the day when ASA went to an unlimited arc. It only lasted two seasons due to the whining and complaining of hitters.

I will admit that a GOOD fungo hitter can usually do O.K. with an unlimited arc, but most hitters find it very difficult. It certainly returned the game to its origins. Our games were also scores like 2-3, 6-4, etc. Almost never did a team score in double digits.

I would love to again pitch unlimited arc with our mats! Whooo, boy!! But then I'm a pitcher, not primarily a hitter (although a good fungo hitter).

As to both Garys' concerns: I agree that many umps struggle to accurately judge a 12 foot arc. But I find these same umps are no better at judging a 10 foot arc. But I can live with it if they are consistent.

How do I know whether I am throwing 10 or 12 or 20 feet? Just as curveball says, I have many times over the years calibrated my pitch against a known height. Add that to pitching for my 58th season and I think I know heights.

As to mad dog's idea of just hitting the mat, even on a low pitch, wouldn't that be a pitcher's heaven? Only problem would be that disgruntled batters might start hitting at you in revenge!
March 3, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Omar, also the umps complained back in the mid-70s that they were getting a lot of heat for the ball-strike calls they were making.

However, what makes any of us think we have a better idea of what 10' or 12' or any feet is compared to the umpire? Players always complain 'the ump cannot tell the amount of arc' but who says the ump is wrong and the players right? We are all just using a pair of eyes.

But, yet again, the motivation for a new/changed rule is the bats. I do believe the tail is wagging the dog on all of these rule changes. Get rid of one thing, get rid of many whacky rules. Looks pretty easy to me.
March 3, 2011
DCPete
234 posts
Would love to see 1 Association or even 1 Tournament try using Unlimited Arc with the mat.
Could make for a much better game and if nothing else might get us some laughs if guys end up striking out swinging . . .
March 3, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
DCPete,
Many of the Church assn's use it.
Hitthing the ball is no problem, it is like the others hand\eye coordination and timing.
March 3, 2011
garyheifner
354 posts
For Gary19

You asked-here is the answer. The field we play on has "2" 8 foot sections on top of each other that is the backstop. Most of my intended high pitches go well higher than the top tubing. That means they are well higher than 16 feet. I have been told by my infielders that some have been at least 10 feet higher than the bar. That takes quite a bit of arm effort to get it up there with a 14 inch ball. I usually start out with a rain maker. If I hit the mat you get another. If I miss I will drop down to 10 to 12 feet. If I miss that one, they get a meat ball. There is one inhuman animal in our league that never gets the high arc. He routinely places it over the 275' fence onto Montgomery road. That is a long way with ASA type bats. He gets low 6 footers and I give him the line drive. Most opponents can't handle the high arc at all and they are mostly young guns many who play very high level USSSA. Yes, I am by far the oldest player in the league. If these (some world class players) struggle with high arcs, what would seniors do? Any other questions???
March 3, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Gary, you might have answered your own question. Sounds from what you wrote that at least some if not many of these "world class players" are used to playing USSSA. So logically they would struggle to varying degrees with unlimited.

Most seniors don't play U-trip, so their adjustment would not be nearly as severe.
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