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Discussion: Something I've been wondering about for a while.....

Posted Discussion
March 6, 2011
MaverickAH
59 posts
Something I've been wondering about for a while.....
1.20BPF bats are:

Durable
Returnable
Priced competively
Great performers

So why even bother with a senior bat? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy a 1.20BPF bat?
March 6, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
yes,but up until this year,even senior bats were rated 1.20
some would like to see a change in the hot combo (bat/ball),some would not.unless or until then,if you don't use a senior bat,you are at a disadvantage.you cannot hit nearly as hard with a non senior bat.why put on boxing gloves, when everyone else is swinging gloves off? personaly,i wish we didn't use them,because they do cause more injuries and deaths.i expect some with very strong opinions for the opposite view will respond to this in a disrespectful way.BUT,before you do,google- how many pitchers killed while playing softball.
March 6, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
why don't we just quit playing altogether,because more people are injured or killed driving to the ball fields.
March 7, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
Hey Maverick and pitcher55....i guess you haven't bought a bat lately..as the senior bats are approx $100 cheaper than the so called 1.20 legal bats...all the good ones are $299+ and seniors are under $200...and there are no statistics saying more people are injured using the senior bats....in the younger age groups they just doctor their bats to react the same as the senior bats...thus some have the hot bat and others don't....using the senior bats at least evens the playing field as everyone has the hot bat!!!!!!!.....maybe using the 52-275 ball that maddog has been talking about wud dumb it down a bit....we used that ball this weekend in georgetown/tx...and it seemed to be slower thru the infield but still flew if you hit it right....again tho there are really no statistics verifying that using the hotter bats creates more injuries at least not in our senior tourneys....just my two cents...doker
March 7, 2011
titanhd
Men's 50
314 posts
I agree with Maverick AH. A broken in USSSA bat is every bit as good as any Senior Bat. This "knife to a gun fight" "evens the playing field"argument is simply an excuse not a reason to use the senior bat.I don't use Senior bats and as far as I'm concerned the field couldn't be more balanced.
March 7, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
I agree with most on this subject. My Freak Plus is nearly as hot as most senior bats, although the sweetspot may be somewhat smaller.
As for prices, some can be purchased for under $200, with a return.
March 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
doker who did you play with,kenny and them left when we did i thought.what brand ball was it you guys used,just like i said the 52-275 ball is a good one to use.AD starr makes a great one.this ball with senior bats,will result in fewer injuries and broken bats.

oh my leg still has a spot that is sore to the touch from last nov when hit with a 44-375 ball,senior bat combo.
March 7, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
382 posts
I have a couple of old, well broken in Freak 100s that are probably 10' or so behind any of my senior bats. The difference is not much but still 10' is 10'.
March 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
jim i'm with you,i have never had a usssa/asa bat be equal to a senior bat.i do still have an synergy-2 that is very well broke in(prolly 1k swings on it)and can hit them out with it,i will say i can still get them out with those bats,but not as easy as a senior bat will let me do.i have no prol going to those as our bat standard over senior bats,but then i think we would have the same prol as the young guys do,with the bat cheaters.
March 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
opps should of added,that a good solution would be the 52-275/300 ball that is now being used by most of the assoc's now.
March 7, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
MD(bob), I've heard from many that the 52/275 ball would be best hit by a "hard" bat, thus making a shaved utrip bat a lesser choice.
It seems like that would be the same for senior bats, ie too soft to get optimum distance.
It stands to reason that if senior associations went to the 52/275 then we would have to buy "harder" bats to achieve maximum distance.
There goes my "investment" in my senior bats!
March 7, 2011
DCPete
228 posts
MD is exactly right; all our local leagues went to the 52/275 ball last year & there were more accusations & suspicions of bat shaving & juicing than there had been in the previous 10 years combined.
Entire teams only using 1 or 2 bats & guys making sure to put their bats back in their bags as soon as they hit added to the feeling that bat cheating was becoming rampant.
Not very surprising; the 52/275 ball way underperforms compared to the 44/375 so a lot of the young guys in particular had an incentive to compensate by going to their local bat doctor.
March 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
why was there more prols DC.a shaved bat doesn't do any better with the 52-275/300 ball,or no worse as this ball puts all bats on the same footing.no one bat really out performs any other with this ball.there should be no incentive to shave a bat with the 52-275/300 ball.

bruce i'm with you(i have 6 senior bats stowed away),but i also play in the other assoc's so i have their bats also.
March 7, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
I like saddlebrookrick's point that there are more injuries and deaths driving to a game. Then add in the increased injuries (and maybe deaths) with the hot composites and you really have a risky sport!

Only difference is that cars have become safer and safer (air bags, construction, safety glass, seat belts, etc.) while bats have become more and more dangerous. Other than armoring up the pitcher, nothing has been done to protect other infielders. Maybe the 52-275 ball will be the answer.
March 8, 2011
Tater50
333 posts
Mav: Buying 4-5 SB's per year gets expensive. I have 5 Original Velocite's (All stock); 2 new ones; have owned 18 (All stock, except one was rolled; never used it in a game; sold it). I love them & am considering going back to them if I break the 2 SBs that I own because I do not want to spend any more money on non returnable bats.

Tater50
PS Would love to go back to the USSSA bats; but I know that I am in the monority.
March 8, 2011
DCPete
228 posts
MD; since last year was the 1st time any of them had used the 52/275 ball, they probably just assumed that shaving would increase their performance.
Will be interesting to see what happens this year . . .
March 8, 2011
MaverickAH
59 posts
Doker; You're missing the point.

With USSSA planning on banning all current bats for 2013, prices have come way down. NOBODY is paying $299 for a 1.20 bat! I can name at least a dozen 1.20 bats that can be had for under $180 w/warranty & you may not even need it because they're durable as well. Compare that to a no warranty senior bat......

Additionally, senior bats are marked at 1.21BPF supposedly due to new testing equipment. A insignificant difference on the surface until you realize that the testing procedures used are inherently flawed. It's this that allows senior bats to perform better! Truth be told, senior bats are hotter than spec & perform well over their 1.21BPF limit.

Anyway, I don't want to get on that soapbox since that wasn't the focus of my post. What was the focus is all of the crying about the durability of senior bats.
March 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
DC got cha...

tater50,they are a good bat,i just couldn't get used to the SS being near the end of the bat.i owned 2 of them myself,but traded them away.the prol with going back to usssa bats would be the cheater's,we say that there isn't any in senior ball,but i say there is.was talking with the reebok rep back in feb and some of the senior reebok bats(legends) sent in were shaved,and these guys were complaining that they broke to quick,wonder why...

the only way to level the playing field is to go to the 52-275/300 ball,that way no matter what you do to your bat,you'll have no advantage.

mav,yeah the test is flawed,it doesn't measure the true sweet spot,only a measure one from the end of the bat.a senior bat will pass that test all day long,until it gets hit.
March 8, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
MaverickAH, with all those factors figured in 1.20 bats are more price effective.
March 8, 2011
Tater50
333 posts
MadDog: I have always contended that a "Cheater is a Cheater is a Cheater".

It would not matter if they were using a missile that was legal, they would still cheat.

People that cheated with ASA/USSSA bats are IMO "definitely" cheating with SBs; like a leopard: "they cannot change their spots!!!

Mav/MadDog or anyone: know if ASA/USSSA will make the Original Velocite Illegal?

Thanks
Tater50
March 9, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
tater you are so right...
as for the velocitee's,i have heard a rumor that 2000 stamp bats might be going away for ASA,now this is a rumor mind you.it was linked to the new bat standard they have coming out,in the near future.
March 9, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
MaverickAH,
I just got off "several" websites on USSSA bats.............I found a lot of bats for $299.99 !
March 10, 2011
MaverickAH
59 posts
Tater50,
I've heard nothing regarding ASA. USSSA is supposedly making ALL bats not carrying their new stamp (not available until 2012) illegal in 2013. Unless they change their maind between now & then, the OG Velocite will be illegal in their association.

#6,
I didn't say the there weren't USSSA bats selling for that price. What I said was that nobody (if they have any sense!) is pay that much. Some manufacturers force internet sellers to only post MSRP. Shop wisely & you'll pay a lot less.

There are a lot of bats available for less. I'll take a Freak Plus, readily available for $180 w/warranty, over a senior bat any day!
March 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
mav with that said,i prolly won't be playing USSSA after 2012 then,as i'm not gonna go out and by a new bat,for just them.i have 1 specific for them now(miken 585)and really don't use it,use my synergy-2 mostly for them.


i have heard that ASA was gonna do the same tho,but like i said its a rumor as of the moment.
March 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
oops need to add,they are doing a study with the open major type players to see if hitting the 52-275/300 ball will be good to go with present bats.
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