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Discussion: REVISITING THE EQUALIZER RULE

Posted Discussion
Oct. 2, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
REVISITING THE EQUALIZER RULE
SPA needs to rethink their equalizer rule. Playing in a tournament this weekend, there were seven 65+ AAA teams and one 70+ Major team in the same division. When the elimination round began, the AAA teams had to give the Major team five runs. The 70+ major team had to give the 65+ team an eleventh defensive player.

The 70's were given five runs to compensate for playing in a younger division. OK. The AAA's were given an extra defensive player as compensation for playing a major team. OK. Why weren't the games just played heads up? Does this sound as dumb to anyone else as it does to me?

If one team wants to play in another division, why don't they play by that divisions rules? That is unless they have the advantage, then they should compensate the teams in that division.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Oct. 2, 2011
monty25
Men's 55
96 posts
Try this ,if a team plays their pool games then are dropped to the next lower age group and classification ,get the 5 runs and seeding due to their wins in pool play . I feel a stronger team that is bumped from one age to the lower while showing they are a strong team should start as the lowest seed and play heads up . Or be informed when they try to enter a tourny that this will be the case-if playing lower age and class-play by those rules with no equalizer example 60maj play in 55aaa no equalizer 60maj play 60aaa-60 aaa gets 5runs or extra player jmo monty25
Oct. 2, 2011
monty25
Men's 55
96 posts
Just thouht of this say a 55 maj team is entered and only one and they are placed in 50aaa their games would be exabition (garntee the same amount of games thus allowing 50 to still having a shot in there tourney,
Oct. 2, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
381 posts
I deal with this all the time locally. It's not perfect but I use a point system.

1 - 70
2 - 65
3 - 60
4 - 55
5 - 50

1 - AA
2 - AAA
3 - Major
4 - Major+

65AAA is a 4
70M is a 4
Play them straight up.

50AA is a 6
55AAA is a 6
Play them straight up.

Best way I can figure to combine teams in a local tournament. When a 6 plays a 5, then the equalizer rule applies. If a 6 plays a 4 then maybe both 5 runs and 11 defenders.

The 40's, and we have a few here, are still an experiment as part of senior softball, and they are more difficult to rate sensibly or combine with 50s of any rating. We had 40's playing 50Major in August but only in pool play.

ShaneV
Oct. 2, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I'm guessing that Monty is refering to this weekend in Pensacola. My team, a new 60 team play there for the first time. We agree that we will be playing major since half of us played major this year. We started off playing the other 60 teams, winning two and losing one. We figured we would be placed in the lower 60 bracket for the double elem games and the team that beat us would be in the upper bracket. Wrong, we were placed in the 55 bracket and the 55 teams had to give us 5 runs. We won our first game 24-4 and the second 21-16. After that the team that we had just beat refused to play us if there happen to come back through the loser's bracket. Another team also declined to plays so we were awarded the 60 Platinum championship and told to go home.
If using ShaneV's point system we would be a 6 and the 55 teams would also be a 6.
I don't know what the solution should be, maybe we should play the 50 major teams and receive 5 runs a game.
Maybe the TD's should dictate the rules, not the teams.
One more thing, a few of the players on the team that we beat 21-16 refused to shake hands after the game-classless!
Oct. 3, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
bruce your are right that was classless,maybe you should out them and let everyone know who they are,but i feel you won't as you have a lot of class.congrats on the win.i like shane's point system,at least he is trying,but it kind of sounds like something ssusa staff does already,for their tourney's.what i don't really like is the fact money will not be refunded if there only 1 or 2 teams in a div and teams decide they don't want to travel for something like that,you just get a credit.
Oct. 3, 2011
Lang
8 posts
I guess it is becoming almost like rug-rat ball teams don't want to compete they just want to win and we are from the generation that used to come to the park with our team and play whoever showed up. This is SAD.
Oct. 3, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Lang,

Yep!
Oct. 3, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I also agree with you Lang.
MD, I fell as though we were denied at least two games on Sunday.
I still don't understand the attitude of the last team that we played. We never hit near the middle or tried to embarass them, in fact it was a close game. Done blame us for playing by the rules!
Oct. 3, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
SENIOR SOFTBALL USA
TEAM RATING INDEX CHART
RATING NATIVE AGE GROUP RATINGS LEVELS
INDEX 40's 50's 55's 60's 65's 70's 75's 80's
10 M+
9 M M+
8 AAA M M+
7 AAA M M+
6 AA AAA M M+
5 AA AAA M M+
4 AA AAA M
3 AA AAA M
2 AA AAA M
1 AAA




This is the chart used by SSUSa and is about the same as ShaneV's only on a 10 point system. Both seem to be very good it teams are rated as they should be going in.
Hope the cut, paste and edit takes hold or the chart above.
Oct. 3, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1123 posts
Oct. 3, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
DD, I thank you.
Oct. 3, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Yea, yea, yea........ I am critical/negative/nitpicky/etc.

But "Winter" Nationals in September???????????
Oct. 3, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
I was one of the 55AAA teams in pensy to play this team not afraid to play anyone. At the very least should have been heads up game that being said we still were not a match for this team. To me 5 years is not an equilizer from AAA to a major team of this caliber. These guys were GOOD also they were great guys to play other than getting my clock cleaned don't mind playing them. They were nothing but nice but we were overmatched. That being said we should have played a far better game than we did. Oh by the way we were the team that only scored 4 runs how bad is that???? My thoughts they should have not been able to eliminate us from our division or have any effect on the standings. We had been playing pretty good ball up to this game having not lost one till then. Well I'll shut up now got this off my chest enough crying over spilled milk. NEXT TIME MAYBE????
Oct. 3, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
It's a pretty good rating system, however since 40+ teams are 10 years younger than 50+ teams, Major-plus 50 teams should be equal with AAA 40+ teams. There is no way a 50+ team should be playing equal with any 40+ team, they have WAY too much speed on them.

In other words when any Major-plus 50 team plays any 40+ team, their rating should be one less than is normally listed.
Oct. 3, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
388 posts
Bruce, this is a difficult situtation.

99.9% of the time a true AAA team that has to play a major team from next age bracket will lose. When this happens more than one time players (I have been there) feel they have been cheated by the TD. It is a team feeling, and, IMO not really wrong, not to be looked down on, you paid lots of money and travel to go and play then feel you got cheated.

I always played, and shake hands as it was NOT the Major players that caused what happened. There is a huge difference between a true AAA and Major team. I love watching Major teams play as there are some great skills on display.
Oct. 3, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
BruceinGa: "We agree that we will be playing major since half of us played major this year."

Columbus LX played you guys & we all had a great game & a great time; you have a great team & some of the guys started w/me on my team years ago; but I only saw 2 players that did not play Major this year. All the IF played w/Wild Bunch, Kittrells or Southern Elite. Only 2 in the OF played AAA & they were X Major Players. I also saw a couple of players on the bench; A.H. & M.B. that also played Major this year. You can correct me if I am wrong; but I said all that to say this:

I think that you get better by playing better teams. My reasoning is that your 60 Major team & the 65 Major team should have been allowed to play a couple of pool games & then the 2 of you have the best 3 of 5 series to determine the Champs; the other 60 & 55 AAA teams should have been able to compete on their on level.

LX AAA Played the 65 team & lost 14-13 in the winners bracket; take away the 5 free runs & we win easily.

IMO. Do not think this is the proper process.

Tater50
Oct. 3, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
I will add to this: we NEED a yearly Player Poll to determine rules. My team alone spent thousands of dollars, took off days from work to attend this tourney.
My above statement would have sufficed for the 55/60AAA & the 60 & 65M (since their were only 1 60M & 1 65M team).

Tater50
Oct. 3, 2011
monty25
Men's 55
96 posts
Bruce, I know we should played better against y'all. I feel that the tourney dir missed the target on how this was handled . them not knowing who comprised the team until you show up puts them in a hard spot. But once they saw the roster they could have put you down in our pool then see how things turned out (playing heads up no equalizer) Tater ,your right we need to express our thoughts to help better the sport and let the asso. that we care about the game.
Oct. 3, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Monty: GaCman is a great guy to play with; you will fit in well w/their team; hope you stay; see you in BHam.

Tater50
Oct. 3, 2011
Crazy Joe
10 posts
the 40s dont need a major plus rating their are not that many teams in 40 and most are pretty equal still
Oct. 3, 2011
Big D from Tennessee
Men's 50
79 posts
2012 SENIOR SEASON - PENSACOLA - STARTS OUT WITH A BANG!!
Congrats goes out to "2012 50 Major Champions" - Monster Softball /
"2011 Pensacola 50AAA SPA Champions"

We fought thru a very tough 5 team Major Bracket!
1. Monster Softball - Memphis, TN
2. Clear Channel TV (Man for Man - The most powerful hitting team around)
3. DT Express - Welcome to the "Majors"
4. Team Arkansas - Also a very - very Powerful team
5. Randy Smith - Perrinial Champions at every tourney!!! But Played Short Handed all weekend.

The 50 rules we a little "Flexi" at times Pool Play versus Bracket Play!

Monster Softball we were extremely fortunate to win this divison - But the softball Gods were in our Favor - This Weekend!

" remember there is always next weekend"

Big D
Oct. 4, 2011
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
158 posts
Big D I'm glad you had a good time hurting that ball. You need to give me one of your bats. It might give me a little luck with power.
Oct. 4, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Congrats Big D!!
Gary 19, I believe it is now called the Fall Nationals.
Oct. 4, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Congrats to Big Dwight and the rest of Monster softball team out of the great state of Tenn. your team played at a high level this past weekend to some very good teams in that 50 division. It must have been fun hitting some bombs and playing some close and exciting game in winning a National Championship.

On other topic I see alot of finger pointing about alot of x-Major plus players playing at AAA and Major level. I can see alot of my former teammate playing on AAA teams when they played Major plus in the past few years. In Nov the SPA exc. Board will address this problem that is accuring in SPA. We are trying to put in a rule like the SSUSA roster composition rule they will start Nov 1 of this year. Where teams rosters will be looked at where and what level the player have played for their last two years. So beware if you are AAA or Major and some Major and Major plus teams folds the old rule of less than 5 players is out the window if you want to stay at your current level. I wish I could tell you more but the board has just starting talking and more will be put out after nov 11. I know from picking up players and wanting to get better to pick up the best players out their but there will be a guideline in place and a number where it may take you the the next level of play and you may not know it untill you turn in your roster. You can look on the site for what SSUSA is doing it may be very much alike.
Don Ward
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