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Discussion: THE NEED FOR SEVEN INNINGS

Posted Discussion
July 29, 2012
DD
Men's 60
71 posts
THE NEED FOR SEVEN INNINGS
Just completed the SPA Nationals in Georgia and wanted to report on the pure satisfaction of playing seven inning bracket games. For the importance of seven innings, look no further than the 60/M+ losers bracket final pitting GSF against Mobley/Gin on Field 2W in Dalton, GA.

Going to the bottom of the 2nd inning it was 18-3 Mobley...by the end of the 4th it was 18-15 and 70 minutes had passed. But instead of the dreaded call for "OPEN INNING" in the fifth...we just played ball and what followed was the stuff of dreams.

Mobley pounded out 9 runs in the top of the 6th and took a 29-20 lead into the bottom of the 7th...when lightning struck and GSF scored 10 to win a heart-stopper.

With the win GSF advanced to the finals. If the game had been time-limited, an entirely different result would have been recorded.

I share this with the utmost respect for that Mobley team in the other dugout...they easily could have put us away...that is not the story.

The story is the need for seven innings. Seven innings is a ballgame. Five or six innings because of a time limit is not. Many teams are late-inning closers and need a full seven. Just the day before, a gritty bunch of players from Jim and Joe's battled til the final out of the 7th inning, overcoming a 17 run deficit and putting the tying run at the plate---BUT THEY NEEDED A FULL SEVEN INNINGS TO DO IT.

SPA understands the players want seven...it poured rain all weekend and games were weather-delayed 2-3 hours in Georgia...but SPA was still able to honor their guarantee of seven inning bracket games. WHY CAN'T YOU DO THIS, SACRAMENTO???

Tournament entry fees for SPA and LVSSA/SSUSA Worlds are $695. We got 7 games in Georgia...cost per game $99 and change...others only got 4 games...cost per game $174...for that kind of money...and for the sheer joy of playing...shouldn't we get a full seven innings in Las Vegas come September?

July 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"The story is the need for seven innings. Seven innings is a ballgame. Five or six innings because of a time limit is not. Many teams are late-inning closers and need a full seven. Just the day before, a gritty bunch of players from Jim and Joe's battled til the final out of the 7th inning, overcoming a 17 run deficit and putting the tying run at the plate---BUT THEY NEEDED A FULL SEVEN INNINGS TO DO IT.

SPA understands the players want seven...it poured rain all weekend and games were weather-delayed 2-3 hours in Georgia...but SPA was still able to honor their guarantee of seven inning bracket games"

It just seems to make so much sense, perhaps too much for some. The beauty of baseball has always been it is the only game without a clock. Why do so many seem to want to make the game ugly?
July 29, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
169 posts
Had a simlar situation on a Thursday night league game..Opposing team down 6..Bottom of 6...They score 6 for the tie..Since it was the last game, the Ump asks if we would like to keep playing..We agree and score 6 more..Bottom half..they score 6 again...Ump asks again same question..We keep playing and we score 3..They come up and score 4 to win the game..Neither team wanted to quit is the moral of the story...We would have played as long as we could so 7 innings is not a stretch..Would have been a better story if we would have won..
July 29, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
Does anyone else hear (read) an echo?
Its a business first and pretty much only thing for them, thus the clock is ticking away.
July 29, 2012
Johnny Hose
Men's 50
71 posts
Dennis,
I would think that anyone that plays ball in a town that is named after him, could get Sacramento to listen.
I too, would love to see seven innings in the brackets for SSUSA.
Maybe do away with (9) run innings (in Maj Plus) and that "Stuipid" three game quarantee, where you can play an absolutely meaningless game.
I also think that they shorten the games played per day, to make sure all the teams get to Sunday, thus keeping the hotels happy.
But, then again, this is just my opinion.
Congrats to you and GSF with your accomplishments in Dalton.
Johnny.
July 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Scott, no doubt to them it is just a business. But I have chosen, just like I do with a restaurant, clothing store, hardware store, plumber, and so on to only patronize those who provide what I am looking for.
July 29, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
You need to look for a good doctor!
July 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
You are clueless to basic Economics. And apparently to many other things as well.
July 30, 2012
southernson
250 posts
Well said DD, much agreement here....
July 30, 2012
stig1
Men's 60
32 posts
Gary19 if you choose to not patronize senior softball why do you choose to throw you weight around on this board. Nobody cares about your opinions anymore. We know what you stand for. Here is your clue nothing you say will change a thing in senior softball because you have no crediblity. I have played six senior tournaments and talked to hundreds of ball players and everyone enjoys using senior bats and good balls. All the other stuff (rules, formats, fields) you just have to adjust to. But whatever it is when you get on the field it is the same for both teams and you still have to score more runs than the other team to win.
July 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
With the hope of improving the game/product enough that it becomes attractive to spend that kind of money to play tournaments again.
July 30, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
LMAO
July 30, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
DD, I agree, we need to play 7 innings. Too bad we couldn't score in those other 3 innings. Congrats on your comeback in the last inning.
July 30, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Bruce-your line was amazing that game -- 9-9-0-0-0-9-2 I think it was. This is surely a game of 'go figure'. You are a class team and we look forward to playing you again.
July 30, 2012
wagon487
Men's 50
506 posts
I agree, seven innings are needed. The worst is when they call time and you sit around for 20 or 30 minutes to play on the same field!
July 31, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
1 and 1 count-no foul ball has really spend up the game this year in a league i played in. And hit and sit when hitting a bomb, why do you have to touch first or go to next bag when a hr is hit.
July 31, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
256 posts
I would like to hear from the staff why they go less than 7 innings? With games scheduled 1 1/2 hours apart why shorten a game? I wonder what the stats are on how many games do go less than 7? My guess would be 10% or less.

I agree with 5tools 1 and 1 would speed up the game.
Aug. 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Tools, I am truly just wondering. What's the rush to get the games over? Running out a homer doesn't add to the game, I get that, but affecting the count is a major change. A good pitcher will manage the count and keep the at-bats moving, a contrived rule is not really needed.
Aug. 1, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Gary19 ... There is little reason why we need to wait through, ball one, ball two, ball three, strike one, strike two ... It's slow pitch, for goodness sakes ... You're not going to sneak a fast ball, on the inside corner, knee high past a hitter ... Ever played in a one-pitch tournament? ... An incredible amount of fun ... 45 minute, 7 inning games ... Constant motion ... Love it!

#19
Aug. 1, 2012
DD
Men's 60
71 posts
Cal50...about 1 1/2 years ago this situation had reached the intolerable stage. Because it was a "hot button" issue with me, I checked our stats and found a staggering 52% of our games in 2010 had been shortened to less than 7 innings.

To their credit, SSUSA responded by adding 5 minutes to all tourney games, giving us 70 minutes for bracket contests...which is the current standard. That seemed to solve the problem, as we noticed fewer than 10% shortened in 2011...an accepatable number in my opinion.

But, with the changes to rules involving homeruns and runs per inning effective with the LVSSA/SSUSA merger for 2012, we are back to WAY more than half our 60/Major Plus games being shortened. In this division, if you don't make the finals, forget playing seven innings.

This is a conscious "business decision" for organizers as many have pointed out. The need for staying on time, the costs of umpires, and other factors have been used to justify this clipping of customers. The notion that it is somehow the fault of the players for taking too long to get on and off the field between innings is disingenuous nonsense.

In what other business do customers stand still for such larceny? If you order a 12-oz beer and get 9 ounces, do you take it and sulk...or do you say something?

Consistently shortening a game you are paying almost $100 or more to play is UNACCEPTABLE treatment of paying customers. As strong as SSUSA has become, it's impossible for me to understand why they continue this shabby practice---particularly when SPA has demonstrated for years a more player-friendly approach.





Aug. 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
19, that was my point that a good pitcher will manage the count and at-bats and not be throwing 6 pitches to each batter.

And sure it is not hardball, and you might not "sneak stuff past the batter", but you can put him in a position early in the count where he has to swing at stuff he wouldn't want to. Not always, but that is the fun and challenge of it.

One-pitch can be a nice change of pace, but is just a gimmick way to play the game that has just limited usefulness.
Aug. 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
DD, you couldn't be more correct. But guys seem to want to continue to bend over and accept it. Just remember PT Barnum.

Though I have to admit I was amazed/frustrated by the maddeningly slow pace that guys get on and off the field and ready for the next inning. In many case no excuse for it.
Aug. 1, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Grinch19, Don't know what the rush is ,don't care. Was just stating what i found sped the game up this year from experience, Did not hear one complaint all year about 1 and 1 no foul, all or most games high 20's low 30's,believe every game but 1 was play in 90minutes or less using the best bats and a decent ball. The pitching well its always been tossed in underhand when i play,and walks are still the kiss of death for pitchers ONLY.

Did you find that doctor yet? Cleveland Ohio has some of the best facilities around, lot of Cleveland Clinic satellites. but i know lot of employers thru there benefits have a list of doctors you have to use so good luck hope they can help..16weeks til Xmas.
Aug. 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Do what you must. Not every pitcher needs a gimmick to keep the game moving as it should.
Aug. 1, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
I think 1 and 1 count NO Foul is to the pitchers advantage. But again only ones opinion.
Aug. 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
It might be for pitchers as a whole. But the better ones would not want gimmick advantages put into the game that all pitchers would receive. The better ones create their own advantages. But, like you, just my observation.

Plus I am guessing those were not implemented with pitchers in mind, but more likely just to artifically speed up the game.
Aug. 1, 2012
JohnBob
Men's 60
244 posts
wagon487,I agree with you. The Umps call time and then take a 10 to 20 minute break. Almost every game both teams are ready to play but are waiting on the Umps,if they knew the games was going 7 inning maybe this would not happen. I know after a game they need to go to restroom get a cold drink etc but this can be done while one team is leaving dugout and new team coming in 5 minutes max.
Aug. 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
JohnBob, you actually have umps who do that during the game while the clock is running? A legitimate 20 minutes? Very sad....:(
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