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Online now: 3 members: Fizzle, TABLE SETTER 11, TonyA; 91 anonymousDiscussion: cheater bats
| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 3, 2012 dantheman 29 posts | cheater bats What do senior's do when the kids in your league are useing cheater bat's |
| Nov. 3, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | As a player all you can do is make the umpires, league director or supervisor at least aware of what you suspect. After that it's up to them to enforce any rule(s) they may have regarding bats. In our leagues if a pitcher gets drilled without being able to get out of the way or not being able to make a play we automatically take the bat and give it a compression test. |
| Nov. 3, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | stick, interesting rule. So I guess the moral of that story is not to hit at slow pitchers since they will look more in danger than guys with good reflexes. |
| Nov. 4, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | That's true Gary. If one uses a cheater bat it would be easy for them to figure out not to hit the middle. The USSSA national convention is coming up in 2 weeks and as I understand it a new bat standard is coming out which from what I'm told will make bats that have been tampered with very easy to detect. |
| Nov. 4, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | dan/stick,this has been something i asked someone from this board(a bat rep),their answer,"not their prol"they are only worried about if they have to replace it.i feel unless everyone reports them when they know or suspect a cheater,this will be an ever on going problem..... when i suspect and i'm pitching,they get a walk,don't let them play.if caught they should get a min of 5 year ban in all assoc's,yes the assoc's should tell each other even a kids assoc telling the senior assoc when they catch a senior doing it...also when a bat is turned in for warranty or defect the mfg'er should tell all assoc's,if the bat has been determined to be altered.... |
| Nov. 4, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | Mad Dog in a weird way that rep is correct, it's really a problem for the associations. All the bat reps do is try to push their bats--those that produce the bats comply to the standards each association sets. As I stated above USSSA is adopting new bat standards to combat the shaved bat issue. Hopefully it will help solve the issue. I'm not certain if the other associations are doing this or not but if bat companies decide not to produce new bats with new USSSA standards they are losing out on a lions share of business!! I cannot imagine any bat company not complying. |
| Nov. 4, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | stick,and that is the problem,everyone turning their heads and not helping to alleviate this problem....should not be hard for any of them to do,WE have to really crack down on this.... Easton tried that with one of their models(reveal i think) a couple of years back,didn't help....i feel if the cheaters want to,they'll find a way around it(which will happen).... bat companies don't care what the assoc standards are,that just means they get to sell more new bats.... |
| Nov. 4, 2012 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | I have seen the problem playing and officiating games in Vegas. Good clue is five or six guys sharing the same bat. I had a young guy playing next to me helping position me in the outfield because he knew which guys were swinging hot bats. And when I say hot I mean these things are hotter than our senior models. It's crazy. The new bat standard should help but only time will tell. The new 2013 bats meet the new standard but I believe only USSA is enforcing it this year. It seems the cheaters are going to make the bat companies a ton of money. There is a rule in NSA that states any batted ball that strikes and injures ANY defensive play causing an injury that forces him to leave the game, the bat will be confiscated. It is given a compression test and if it fails is sent to the manufacturer who makes the final determination as to whether the bat has been altered or not. So I guess staying out of the middle may not save the cheaters in some cases. |
| Nov. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Bad rule. I understand its intent, but bad rule. So any time you want to get a bat out of the game just act like the ball was moving too quickly and let it hit you? Don't think that won't happen. |
| Nov. 5, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Seems like the moral of the story is still "don't hit balls near guys who don't react well". It used to be that is where you wanted to hit, not anymore it sounds like. |
| Nov. 5, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | moral of the story.....really....guess its ok for the cheaters to use shaved/painted bats,that real morale of the story right there.....guess you cheaters don't care if anyone gets hurt..... |
| Nov. 5, 2012 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | I think it's a good rule. It's the only way to attempt to catch bat cheats. If your bats good you get it back, if it's not well you get a little suspension and hopefully sued. Something needs to be done. NSA is adopting the new bat standard in 2015. |
| Nov. 7, 2012 neck10 714 posts | well usssa will like that all the players will go back there.why not go back to the hard balls & demarini bats the ball traveled a long way but at least in our leauges no one was worried if you hit middle they just caught it cause it didnt come off bat as fast but would still clear the fence |
| Nov. 7, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | Mad Dog I understand and admire your passion on this and trust me it's a passion I share with you. When I ump USSSA conference tournaments they check bats differently. Every bat is compression tested on site before the teams play. If they pass the test the bat is put into a plastic container and marked with the team name and how many bats they have. When the team plays the containers are on the field next to their respective dugouts. Players can only use bats from that container and when their turn at bat is completed the bat goes back into the container. When teams are not playing or are done for the day the container is locked in a storage facility until they play again. As umpires we have to make sure teams have the same amount of bats in the container before and after each turn at bat. Most all the players and teams I've umped are pretty good about this but there are a few select jerks who try to sneak in a bat that probably didn't pass the test. |
| Nov. 7, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | STICK and even that is not fool proof.i have played in some utrip tourney's that bats are inspected and put in the barrel,but only tested when there was a prol...i have no prol with that,at least they are trying..... just feel the mfg'er and their bat reps should also be helping when they find cheater bats......tell the assoc's who is doing it..... |
| Nov. 7, 2012 titanhd Men's 60 639 posts | Simply because a bat doesn't pass the compression test doesn't mean that a bat is shaved. It only means that the bat didn't pass the compression test.Any well broken in bat will not pass any (ANY) compression test. No used Senior bat will pass either.That being said just because a bat fails the test doesn't mean you've found a "Cheater". I still say that we're dealing with the "wrong end of the snake".It's the ball that we should all be oncerned with. There is no need to eliminate this or that bat and then use the hottest ball that you can find for the bats that we've determined passed a compression test. |
| Nov. 7, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | Mad Dog every bat you see in the plastic container at a USSSA Conference tournament has passed the compression test that is administered before each tournament. if a team plays 6 conference tournaments their bats will be tested 6 times. |
| Nov. 7, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | Well said titanhd. What you stated applies mostly to bats that are a few years old--the old Easton Synergy, Miken freaks, freak pluses, the old Worth Jeff Hall models to name a few. These bats are so well broken and fail the test due to the amount of swings on them. |
| Nov. 7, 2012 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | stick i understand that each time they get tested in conf play...our local utrip tourney's don't,but the do the inspect before each game.ump does a quick check and in the barrel they go,our only diff,is that after the game we get them back...and have to do again before our next game..last dec i actually went to the TD to have him comp test my old syn-2,hey it passed,not by much,but it did... titan,yes that is true,also most senior bats will pass comp tests when new,but 50 swings later might be another story....LOL.... titan,you don't remember the uproar on here about going to a lesser ball......personally it would be the easiest way to go.we use the 52 ball(ASA ver) for our leagues,we have no prol hitting it out,more of the lesser hitters have been getting some shots,we all like it....done with my 52 rant,sorry... |
| Nov. 9, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | That's just it Mad Dog. The conference has a system to deal with shaved bats or hot bats that may not be shaved. From my vantage point it works pretty well. I understand that leagues and other tournaments don't have a process like that. Before each teams first game in a NIT we inspect their bats. There's no way we can tell if their shaved, rolled or altered in any way or not. We look for cracks, dents and make sure the USSSA approved 1.20 stamp is readable. That's why we put in a rule if the pitchers gets drilled without being able to react quick enough (umpire judgement) the bat is taken to get tested. Hopefully the USSSA new bat standards will eliminate the need for bat checking or compression testing. Their convention is next week so more info should be known after. |
| Nov. 9, 2012 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | "That's why we put in a rule if the pitchers gets drilled without being able to react quick enough (umpire judgement) the bat is taken to get tested" Bad, bad rule. So we started using mats because we don't trust umps to do what they have been for decades, call balls and strikes. And now we trust them to decide if a pitcher (perhaps without knowing anything about that particular guys reflexes) had enough time to react to a batted ball. Bad, bad rule. |
| Nov. 9, 2012 stick8 1992 posts | I will say it's not the best rule Gary because it doesn't really stop players from shaving their bats. The intent of the rule is to make players aware that if they blow up the middle and drill the pitcher their bat will be taken to be tested. The interesting thing is if a players bat doesn't pass the test they get 2 choices. 1)if they elect to take their bat back they are automatically suspended for one year or 2)they can give the bat up and continue playing. That being said the easy way around the rule is don't hit the middle! And that is one of the main reasons why USSSA is coming out with a new bat standard. |
