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Discussion: Impact Players List

Posted Discussion
Nov. 22, 2012
twins25
19 posts
Impact Players List
Putting players that have been selected to All World or All Tournament teams is a very poor way to put players on the Impact List. If for no other reason than there are several teams that do not include players from their team's selection's because they're already in the HOF and allow other players to be named All World or All Tournament to accumulate the neecessary points to also make a case to get in to the HOF.The Old A's seem to have an inordinate amount of players in the HOF and players who have left playing for them have openly spoken out that that's what they did,as well as several other teams who have done the same thing.I brought the subjet up to Ridge Hooks and his response was "what can I do about it"? Seems to me some sort or point system using an order of finish in the Worlds or selected events,say top 3-5 teams,players could accumulate points so all players would benefit.The fact that an Original Old A is the chairman on the selection committee should also be noted.I also realize that currently HOF players are selected by current members via online voting and most of them have not seen those nominated players actually play or do not know who those players are so they contact other HOF menbers to ask if they know them and what kind of players/people they are.There are certainly many players deserving to be in the HOF,but the system has allowed some who happened to be "roster" players or designated runners to get into the HOF and dilute somewhat the honor of being a HOF player.Just my opinion!
Nov. 22, 2012
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
twins25, couldn't agree with you more that just because a player is on an all-tournament team that he is automatically an impact player. Here's just one example in my own case.

We were playing in a major SPA tournament and won. Big deal. It was one of those quirky tournaments where there were no other teams in our ranking or age group! We had it won before the first pitch. We played teams older and younger and had a good time, but "winning" our division was a ludicrous concept.

Our manager was asked to nominate five guys for the all-tournament honors. I had a decent tournament, pitching most of the games and hitting about .800, so I was one of the five he picked. So I was/am an "impact player"?! NOT!

The odd thing is that we did have two true impact players on our team that year, but neither of them were able to make this tournament. So they were not nominated and have never been on the impact player list.

Needs to be a better system for identifying impact players. All Tournament or All World is a start, but only a start until more data is gathered.
Nov. 22, 2012
the wood
1079 posts
Twins25:
I wasn't aware that you had left the 'Fitness Protection Program' but it's good to see you voice your feelings.
As it relates to the Impact Player's List (IPL), IMO, you are 100% correct. The 2005 SPA AT list, which became an impact player list, was exactly as you stated. As you know, we had 6 guys on that list and 4 of them were not our top players... they just happened to have real good tourneys in Plano that year.
SPA has already instigated a process whereby they identify IPs, which began earlier this year. There will be lots of detractors early on because it won't be perfect. But it has the potential to be a lot more accurate/fair than the present system or the previous version of the IPL. SSUSA could utilize the SPA list and build upon it... this is a dynamic process.
For this to be effective we need regional 'bird dogs' and we need more than 1 guy from each region... and they should be from different teams.
Any system that labels a courtesy runner or defensive replacement as a M+ guy is seriously flawed. This is not an effort to take a cheap shot at this type of player. While I wouldn't consider building a team without this type of guy, I'm actually making an attempt to protect them from the current status quo (i.e. M+ stigma).
BW
Nov. 23, 2012
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
158 posts
I know of some impact players that just sit the bench bat .800 because they just run to first base and back to the dugout. If you would take the rabbit out of the picture how many true impact players would you have on the list. Just running to first and not getting a double or a triple don't make an impact player in my eyes. When half the team runs for the other half of the team and the ones that don't run the entire tourney get the all tourney. Just my opinion.
Nov. 23, 2012
sliplayer
Men's 60
70 posts
I agree. Just because you play on a Major Plus team doesn't mean that you should not be allowed to drop down in divisional play, unless you are legitimately listed as a Impact Player. All Major Plus team players are not created equally. Some Major Plus players,as Leftyfalcon stated, do not play defense or can't run or throw.
I believe SPA has started the correct process of listed the players that should be on the impact list. All American should not be used as the only standard to be put on the impact list. I like BW idea of regional "bird dogs" from different teams.
SLi
Nov. 23, 2012
slyone25
Men's 50
19 posts
WE JUST WON THE WINTER NATIONALS AND I HAD TO PICK 5 GUY'S FOR ALL TOURNAMENT PLAYER'S. THEY ALL HIT GREAT, DEFENCE WAS OUTSTANDING. BUT IMPACT PLAYERS NO. AT THIS AGE 60'S THEY JUST HAD A GREAT TOURNAMENT THAT WEEKEND. THEY PLAYED GREAT HAD FUN AND WON.
Jan. 31, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Last year we(D&K)won the 60M in Dalton, Ga. For the first time in 5 trips to the SPA, I did not make All Tourney. I did get the Award for Most Home runs hit for the 60M. I was taken off the New Impact Players list. Now since I'm off the list, I can play 60 AAA, Right? The Rule states that if you are on the IP list, then you can only play Major and Major+. So now that I'm off, I should be able to play AAA. I'm thinking of Sandbagging like everyone else.
Jan. 31, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
744 posts
SPA
Why limit the number of Impact players on a Major+ team. That is the whole point of playing Major+. If you are playing at the highest level possible then you are saying you can build a good team, but not a great team.

If the intent is to keep a Sponsor from seeding his team then maybe, but what about the guys that are Major+ and are not sponsored or slightly sponsored now have to seek out non impact players to fill out the roster.

So an impact player in AAA can't move to Major+ without affecting the Major+ roster. Will that AAA player be an impact player at the next level. Case by case basis, there are alway exceptions to the rule.

My brother is an Impact player in AAA, but would he be an impact palyer at the next level. IMO yes in Major, maybe at Major+, but I think to make the designation have more meaning, designate Impact at age and level.

Therefore, an individual might be an impact player at 60 Major+, but not at 55 Major or 50 AAA. A little more complicated, but more realistic in its approach. I suggest that an impact player designation should be unique to the actual age related division and not in younger divisions. Again there are always excepts, but that can be dealt with on an individual basis. Nothing will be perfect, but try to create a situation that benefits the players and the managers when building a team.

Mike Adair
Joe Brown's AllStars
Jan. 31, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1220 posts
canljack - We cannot speak to how SPA applies roster eligibility policies as they relate to a player being (or not being) on the SPA Impact Players List. Please contact them directly for any desired clarification.

However, in SSUSA, there is a specific prohibition against a player with Major+ experience history in the previous two seasons being eligible to play on a AAA team without a specific exemption request being granted.

SSUSA Rulebook 4.2(7) MAJOR-PLUS PLAYER RESTRICTION
Major-Plus players may only play on Major-Plus or Major teams. Players who have no Major or Major-Plus team in their region OR players who are determined not to be Major-Plus caliber by SSUSA may request an exemption in writing.

Jan. 31, 2013
Tim Millette
484 posts
Mike, I could not disagree more.

I believe SPA is onto a good concept.

Sure the list could be a little off...but....

It could put a stop to those dynasty group of players winning over and over again.

Maybe if they went with one impact for aaa teams, three for Major teams and five for Plus teams it would help spread out the Champions.
Jan. 31, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
USA, I have no problem with the SPA I P list, its a Good represtation of Senior Softball. Actully, I do like having the options of playing AAA to Major +.
Feb. 1, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
744 posts
I don't agree with limiting the number of impact players on a Major+ team.

That being said, I believe that any rating body should make the impact player rating specific to the age the player has attained.

Therefore, an individual might be an impact player at 60 Major+, but not at 55 Major or 50 AAA. A little more complicated, but more realistic in its approach. I suggest that an impact player designation should be unique to the actual age related division and not in younger divisions.

Again there are always excetions, but that can be dealt with on an individual basis. One exception, I can think of is Clatterbough. He will be playing 65 this year. No question he would be an impact player at 65-60-55-50, strickly because he is an absolute beast hitting the ball. He is the exception, for the most part once an individual has moved to the next age bracket they would maintain their impact at that level, but would diminsh against a younger group.

Tim and Kennard, perfect example. Tim you are an impact player at 50, do you think that holds true for the 40's. Kennard, Conway is 65 this year and an HOF member. He would be an impact player at 65-60 and would still be a good player at 55, but would be be an impact player.

Nothing will be perfect, but try to create a situation that benefits the players and the managers when building a team.

Finally, create the impact player list, but make it specific to the players attained age and not designated as an impact player across the entire banding sprectrum.
Feb. 1, 2013
tommy45
14 posts
Where do you find this impact player list?
Feb. 1, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
744 posts
For SPA

http://www.softballspa.com/spadata/Impact.aspx
Feb. 1, 2013
Tim Millette
484 posts
Mike, I don't care who it is....once you are qualified for the next age group you should not be an impact at the age group below.

There are a very limited number of guys that will dominate when they get to the next age group....if they can dominate its not like age will not slow you with aches and pains. Ompared to the younger guys.

Besides....many impact hitters get very limited defensively from one age group to the next....can't have all adairs and Millettes on a team or you'll never win.

As for me in the 40s....the only offers I get is to pitch...I guess I'm not as stupid as I appear.
Feb. 1, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
744 posts
Then we are in agreement somewhat, but they way it is written now, you are an impact player for all levels. Thus a 50 team with 4 50 and 3 55 Impact players cannot compete in a SPA tourney as a team. A Major + team is limited to 6 impact players.
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