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Discussion: A few questions about a tourney I was in over the weekend.

Posted Discussion
June 24, 2013
curtiss
23 posts
A few questions about a tourney I was in over the weekend.
I played in a small backyard tourney this past weekend and there were a few things that happened that confused me. First off there was a team I should say two teams a 50+ team and a 55+ team that were named the same had the same team name and had the same Uniforms playing in the same bracket is that ok? There was also a call that I thought was poor a player was standing outside his dugout I think there was actually 5 standing out side warm up the batter, base coach and three others there was a ball that the first baseman missed and it rolled over near the dugout opening the player standing there out side the dugout did not move and the first basemen could not get to the ball is that interference? What should have happened if it was? should the runners be able to advance? Thanks for any information you can help me with the game didn't matter for the event and I did not make a big stink about it just didn't seem right.
June 24, 2013
17Black
Men's 50
217 posts
What tourney was this? Something similar witnessed by me in Maumee (Toledo) over the weekend.

Guys shuffling between two fields, and what made it worse, yes they all had same team name, half the guys had no numbers on their jerseys, and its a top notch major plus team too, you'd think they'd at least have numbers on the shirts???

But the team I saw was NOT in same bracket.
June 24, 2013
stick8
1261 posts
Curtiss that's an unfortunate situation. That's why when I ump I get everyone in the dugout with the exception of the on deck batter.
The ruling I would have on the play you describe if I felt that the players intentionally didn't let the first-baseman grab the loose ball would be interference. The closest runner to home at the time of the pitch would be out. All other runners move up one base only if forced to. I'd like to stress this is strictly a judgement call.
June 24, 2013
curtiss
23 posts
I would rather not say just cause We will have to play that team again, I will Say it was in CA. I believe the senior softball rules as well as most tourney rues state they must have numbers so they could have been disqualified for that.
June 24, 2013
curtiss
23 posts
Stick8 That's the call I would have made kind of a weak Ump though.
June 24, 2013
stick8
1261 posts
It's similar to a baserunner interfering with a fielder making a play on a ball.
June 24, 2013
cal50
Men's 50
266 posts
The tournament curtiss may be talking about is the Missouri Senior games. We have a 50 Caliber (50 major team) and a 50 Caliber + (55 major team). There were 3 (50 teams) and 3 (55 teams). The entire tournament was played as a round robin with each of the 6 teams playing 5 games. When the 50's played against the 55's the games did not count in the actual tournament standings but were played to make sure every team played 5 games.

Is this the tournament you are talking about curtiss?
June 24, 2013
curtiss
23 posts
No I play in CA Not not so much worried about the results of the tourney just curious on the rules. Same team name same uniform in same bracket is it in the rules or not?
June 24, 2013
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Don't know where curtiss was playing, but it is not unusual to see two teams with the same sponsor and the same uniforms, but in different age groups, playing each other in a bracket. In northern California, in the Northern California Senior Softball Association, teams are ranked by ability, not age, so a weak younger team has more than once this year played a brother team which is a strong older team. In some cases, it was just a matter of availability for the bracket, and the weaker team in a bracket with wide age variance, was given runs to compensate.

Not likely that they would be uniforms without numbers, however, because the NCSSA has been a nail on proper uniforms. One team lost a tournament championship because an add-on player did not have a team shirt, and the team had to forfeit games when it was pointed out!

I have seen the situation curtiss described where too many guys are outside the dugout on the field, the ball gets away from the corner baseman, and it then bounces around the crowd of guys making it impossible for the first or third baseman to quickly retrieve the passed ball. Usually the umps wish they had enforced the dugout rule, since it is tricky how to adjudicate this interference.
June 24, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
979 posts
Nice Meeting you this weekend, Omar! NCSSA has it kind of right by making teams that pick up players from other teams or sister teams making all their games exhibition and not counting towards the Tourney Championship! It Keeps teams from loading up each week!
June 24, 2013
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
swing, it was fun talking to you this weekend as well. You are the same age as my son. NCSSA does let a team add up to 2 players to avoid playing shorthanded or forfeiting, as long as they are same skill/age level. But you're right that teams that have to add 3 or 4 guys, or try to sneak in a Major + player to a weaker bracket, might well find themselves playing exhibition.
June 25, 2013
BForce
Men's 50
5 posts
curtiss is talking about the tournament in Tuolumne this past weekend in CA. I was on one of those teams and i'm not sure how you couldn't see the numbers that took up 3/4 of the back of the shirt as well as on the sleeve. Really, that ball into the dugout made no difference to the outcome at all. The umpire wasn't the best, but things happen.
June 25, 2013
curtiss
23 posts
I know it would of made no difference yes I could see the numbers, like I said I didn't make a big stink about it, the point of my questions were to clarify the rules. So let me ask again....Same Uniform, two different teams in the same bracket is that ok?
My other question about the ball near the dugout was just clarification as well. Again I know it made not difference you guys kicked our butt but I was just curious.
June 25, 2013
curtiss
23 posts
I had another question if you guys are up to it. I was curious about the bat warmers that I have seen at some of the tournaments that I have been to. I thought that bat altering was against the rules warming a bat can increase the ability of the bat, therefore wouldn't that be considered altering? one of the leagues I play in will not allow those microwaveable heat pad bat warmers to be used isn't that the same thing? I looked it up in the rules it says.
3.4(4) ALTERED EQUIPMENT A bat or ball is considered altered when the physical characteristics of a legal softball bat or ball have been changed (EXAMPLE: chilling softballs). Replacing the handle of a metal bat with a wooden or other type handle, inserting material inside the bat, applying excessive tape (more than two layers) to the bat grip or painting a bat other than at the top or bottom for identification purposes are considered altering the bat. Replacing the grip with another legal grip is not considered altering the bat.
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