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Discussion: Playing out of your division in a tournament

Posted Discussion
July 9, 2013
Tommy00
3 posts
Playing out of your division in a tournament
Recently, my team played in a tournament where there were no other teams in our age division. By rule, we played up a division and gave runs where necessary. We heard lots of complaining about us being in the tournament and because we were using SSUSA approved bats (which 2/3 of our team doesn't even use). Since then, we were forced to withdraw from a tournament because several of the teams that we played against complained enough. We were / are only looking for Senior Softball tournament experience to prepare for Vegas.

Looking back, I think it is unfair that we were emliminating teams from a tournament that we couldn't win ourselves. My time in the military taught me that I should never point out or complain about something without offering a solution, so I have a couple of possibilities that I would like to offer up.

1. Let teams who are outside the age division of the bracket play more pool games to get their minimum guaranteed games. These games should not count for the seeding of teams playing bracket games.

2. Let the team(s) play the same number of pool games as the other teams, then let them play against the teams eliminated from the bracket games. This gives the eliminated teams an extra game of experience as well. If the non-division team loses, they are done. This gives them the feel of being in bracket play, yet they aren't eliminating the teams from the bracket.

3. Keep things as is. If a team signs up for a tournament and there aren't any other teams in their age division, put them against the closest age division. Let the teams give up runs where appropriate, and put them in the bracket as seeded.

Let us toss this around for a bit and see what everyone thinks.

Tommy

July 9, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
First of all you should have at least mentioned the assn as to who put it on.
It seems it was not a SSUSA event, so I am surprised they even let you use the bats that are allowed in SSUSA events. Seems there was no bat check.
If only your team was in the age\ratings bracket, I believe you won it hands down.
Being exempted from others might serve as a warning regarding the bat use. Maybe not.
July 9, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
997 posts
Tommy, My feeling is that a upper racked team should never have any effect on the lower ranked teams Tourney.. If you are going to place upper ranked teams in a lower ranked tourney, they should only be playing exhibitions! Never should it count against the team trying to win their lower ranked tourney.. I think it's really unfair to the lower ranked teams! If every team in the Tourney had to play the higher ranked team it might be different, but that is usually not possible!

I think it's great that lower ranked teams get a chance to play higher ranked teams! It gives the lower ranked teams a chance to get their feet wet at the deep end of the pool, However it should never count, or effect a lower ranked ranked teams tourney! IMO
July 9, 2013
Tommy00
3 posts
Ok, let me explain it a little more -- too many details in my head that I left out.

This was a SSUSA sanctioned tournament. We signed our 40 AAA team up, but there were no other 40+ teams. Because of this, we had to play against 50+ teams. We played pool games and bracket games against them. We did not give up any runs in the pool games, but in the single elim bracket play, we did.

We lost a pool play game heads up against a 50+ Major team, but beat them in an elimination game when we gave them 5 runs. Had they won, they would have been in the finals of the tournament.

Please ask questions so I can clarify more if needed.

July 9, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
Tommy,
Nice thread…..I totally agree with you on this…..Let the teams in the lower divisions play to win their tourneys, the upper level team can play against the lower levels, they just can’t win the tournament…After all bye default the upper level team wins their division, if they’re the only team entered! I still can’t believe that 50 major team didn’t beat you AAA’ers twice!….LOL
July 9, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
997 posts
I make it simple... NO LOWER RANKED TEAM SHOULD EVER LOSE A TOURNEY BASED By A UPPER BRACKET TEAM CAUSING THEM A LOSS IN THEIR OWN BRACKET!

If you were ranked higher than a 50M+ team you should of been playing exhibitions and if you were the only team in your 40AAA you should win your Tourney at 40AAA by default! Everything else in the lower division on your part should be an exhibition! Not fair to lower rated teams to effect their own bracket... even with the handicap of runs or extra players! IMO
July 9, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
997 posts
Ronnie, I'm with you! I am surprised that the 50M+ team loses to a 40AAA team..

Teams playing down in any Tourney should never effect that event!
July 9, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
Agree with the comments here, you should be playing exhibition. A 40 AAA team is equal to a 50 Major+ team. Since there were none of those (what a surprise) then you should not be able to eliminate your competition. You still have the right to participate and get your games in though.

The gripe about you guys using senior bats comes from some believe that the 40's should not be able to use them, although in many cases your bats may be better!
July 9, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
Swing, Last year in Mesquite, a major + team was put in the Major division * although they didn't win the tournament, they did eliminate a few Major teams from the tournament, which I thought wasn't fair, even with the equalizer in place....I was playing with Tommy about AAA beating Major's......But you're right it SHOULD never happen....lol
July 9, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
Swing we are coming to Manteca,if you're there we can have that Beer....
July 9, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
ronnie ya want a 211.........
July 9, 2013
Tommy00
3 posts
My main hope in this is to come up with a solution that gets everyone fair games so that we can practice for Vegas. Not trying to call anyone out or make anyone look bad, but we got removed from a tournament because there isn't a decent solution in place for our situation.

I would definitely say that the 50 Major team expected to beat us! :)

Hopefully someone in power sees this and thinks that there is a shred of a good idea so we don't get pushed out of future competition just because we don't have a bracket to play in.

Thanks for your time folks,

Tommy
July 9, 2013
Longhorns
37 posts
Richie i agree with you when it comes to a Major plus team playing Major. The Major Team shouldnt be elimated because they got a bad draw. If all the Major Teams played against the Plus team let it stand. It seems like all the Tournments we played we seemed to get the same teams 2 or 3 times in the Tourn. They dont like it either do we different Teams are always better. By the way great job at the Cal Cup. KURT MTC 55.
July 9, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
997 posts
Thanks Kurt, Always a pleasure to play against the best and you and your team is the Best on and off the field! Always a battle! You give any 50 team a run for their money! Congrat's on the 55+ win! and letting me get home early!:-)
July 10, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
Mad Dog....sure you have one?
July 10, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
sharon and i have a 12pk in the fridge right now,well minus a couple,so come on over...LOL.....
July 10, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
MD...I'm on way..I'll stop bye on my way to Dalton...Tell Sharon to save me 2?...lol
July 10, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
LMAO..ronnie....will tell her,we're just south of I-20,or if flying have pilot do a touch and go in tyler....LOL.....
July 10, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
997 posts
for sure Ronnie, we must make some time for sure! Tell Mad Dog to bring the beer! ;-)
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