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Discussion: 50 Major + Western Nationals

Posted Discussion
July 23, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
50 Major + Western Nationals
Staff,

with just 3 teams, Why can't this division finish their play on Saturday?
IMO it makes no since keeping these team around for 3 days, just to play a 5 game schedule & I'm sure MTC & AZ Elite feel the same way!!!

Ron
Rated Athletics
July 23, 2013
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1039 posts
Hi Ron ... Yours is a common misconception about the size of a tournament ... You isolate to a 3-team tournament when, in fact, it is a 104 team tournament, of which your sub-group comprises only three of those teams ...

Please take a look at the Master Planning Grid (it's available online) and let me know when you might suggest those games be played ... There are four Sunday games scheduled in your Division ... There are no empty games slots until 8:00 PM on Saturday evening ... And your games are at a point in the bracket where they have to be played in single file ...

So while it is theoretically "possible" to finish on Saturday, those Sunday games would have to be played consecutively Saturday night at 8:00, 9:30 and 11:00 PM and 12:30 AM ... Not only does that make it difficult to get out of town at that time, it's probably not a reasonable solution as to the other teams, the tournament staff or the public entity employees staffing the tournament venue ...

I may have missed something here, but I doubt it ...Please let me know if you still think I did ... Thanks! ...

July 23, 2013
ebo17
4 posts
Not sure, but there may be a mix-up with Cal Energy. They are listed as a 55 team in the list of teams, but they are included in the 50 bracket.

Please advise, thank you.
July 23, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1124 posts
California Energy, at their request, is "playing younger" in the 50-Major Division, which has a same Rating Index as 55-Major+ (R/I=8) ...
July 23, 2013
ebo17
4 posts
cool....good for them!!

thanks.
July 24, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
Hi Dave,
Why can’t my small division start our double elimination bracket play Friday evening?
I played SPA in Dalton last weekend, 15 team bracket, 2 seeding games Friday am, then double elimination bracket play started Friday afternoon for all teams & only 3 teams made it to Sunday, all others went home Saturday & there were NO NIGHT GAMES PLAYED!…..For this tourney, unless I missed something, all pool play for the 50’s games on Friday commence around 3pm, & we finish our pool play Friday around 11am, giving the 3 teams a little rest in between games & can easily finish the tournament at the schedule times on Saturday evening if we start our elimination games Friday….…I understand the total team partication in ALL divisions & having to accommodate everyone…..IMO it just seems a little over kill to drag out a 3 team bracket over 3 days!!!!! Dave my friend, you being the bracket guru you are, I’m sure you can find a way….LOL

Ron
Rated Athletics
July 24, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Ron, he has 21 teams at our complex thru the 2-4.... Dave needs your help... figure it out!;-)think of the bright side of it Ronnie, we might have a chance to have that beer!;-)
July 24, 2013
Rightrj
Men's 50
56 posts
Swing,,
I get it but someone has to keep an eye on Dave! Maybe since there will be time, Dave can buy the 1st round of beers…..LMAO
If SSUSA ( or shall I say George), had not promoted us to the + division in the middle of the season, this conversation would be mutt…..lol
Ron
Rated Athletics
July 24, 2013
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1039 posts
Ron ... Your last two seeding games (from Saturday) would have to be moved to Friday night and they must play consecutively ... Which means they would play at 6:30 and 8:00 PM ... Bracket would start at 9:30, assuming (and that's a biggie) that the venue is on time ... Please take a look at the Master Planning Grid, print it, and lay it out the way you wish! ... But if you do that, remember we generally avoid changing "first game times" for any teams because they set their own daily schedules based on the first published version ... I'm ALWAYS open to suggestions ... Ohh ... Please keep in mind there are pre-secheduling requests for late(r) starts to be accommodated and a request to keep the 50-M+ and the 55-M+ segregated as to time slots because MTC 50-M+ is 'borrowing' a couple of players from MTC 55-M+ ...

Rich ... There are actually 27 teams at Maidu Park over the three days, where 24 (six per available field) is the optimal schedule layout number ... I think you may have overlooked the six teams in the 50-AAA ...

Thanks, guys, and good luck!

July 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
Hi Dave-glad you finally let some of these guys know what you go through to schedule these tourneys. I know nobody works harder than you do to make this work. See you in Sacramento!
July 24, 2013
Tim Millette
477 posts
Maybe this isn't possible because of older old guys playing on the week days but...

Could it be possible for two day events if.....

Half the groups played all Friday and Saturday and.....the other half of the groups played all Sunday and Monday?
July 24, 2013
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
Nice to see we are not the only ones that get these questions. Its a good topic to follow. Once again, Dave how you do this is remarkable.
Ron made reference to SPA. On this topic SPA and SSUSA are apples and oranges. SPA for their nationals only has M M+ in one month and AA and AAAs in another month. They do 60s one weekend and 50s and 55s another. M M+ are July and the balance is in September. Plus Ridge doesn't draw anywhere near the teams that SSUSA draws. Remember Ron your comparing what SSUSA does in this weekend to a tournament you attended that was half an event. As for doing a two day. You simply cant do double elimination with the amount of turnout in two days. I find it remarkable they can do it in three. These questions are great but need to be tempered by the amount of teams entered. I know when they are asked the person only considers the team they are on. However the big picture is what has to be looked at. Its fascinating to do a schedule. Its like when I used to do jigsaw puzzles. But then the puzzle pieces never complained about where they put :O)
July 24, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
yes Dave, I didn't see the 50s AAA That's a lot of teams on a 4 plex in three days! takes min4+hrs to get thru 24 teams playing one game each...
July 24, 2013
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1039 posts
Rich and Marv: Scheduling 101 - "Cliff Notes" Version ... With our preferred 2RR/3GG format, total games = 3.2 times the number of teams ... It's an amazingly accurate rule-of-thumb measurement ... (Western's: 104 teams x 3.2 = 332.8 ... There are 331 games on the schedule) ... We also schedule on 1:30 time slots because anything less than that is naive at best, and the schedule won't hold ... Then it's just a game of "make it fit" into the available field inventory, taking into account local league restrictions and other limitations that may be there ... Good luck next week to everybody!

July 24, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
good to know...Dave... so our complex is having roughly 86 games time 1.30hr in three days roughly 112 hrs divided by 4 fields about 29 hrs per field.. roughly 10hrs per day per field....if everything went on time.. lol
July 24, 2013
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1039 posts
87 is THE number at Maidu ... 130.5 game-hours scheduled ... 32.625 hours per field over 3 days = 10.875 hrs. per day per field ... The "on time" part is a collaborative effort of directors, umpires, managers, teams and the "freak factor", which includes such things as a 9-inning seeding game, a 40-runs-combined open inning, a medical emergency (hopefully not), rain (not likely), etc. ...

Good luck, play safely and have fun! ... If you have any complaints, please be sure to let your director know, since I'll be 3,000 miles down the firing range from the local snipers! ... Will be working in Raleigh at the Eastern's, where the 90/90 factor is in play (temperature AND humidity) as part of the "freak factor" ...
July 24, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Have fun in Raleigh, try not to melt but you know Lincoln (Cal Cup) was no picnic either!
July 25, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
324 posts
Guys leave Dave alone so that he can finish session 2 of the Eastern Nationals Schedule. :)
July 25, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
I was just trying to see if he was going to by RightRJ and myself a beer... ;-)
July 25, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
buy!
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