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Discussion: pitchers mask

Posted Discussion
March 3, 2014
ss27
5 posts
pitchers mask
With new rule mandating pitchers wear a mask, does anyone have a suggestion on which brand and model to wear? Saw a few online but do not know enough about them since I never wore one.
March 3, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
Since the introduction of the new mandate, there have been many threads on this message board talking about masks for pitchers and personal preferences. You would be rewarded to go back and read some of them.

In summary, from my own 5-year mask experience, here is how I would approach it:
1. Decide if you want a pitching helmet or a pitching mask. Both are used in women's fast pitch softball and both are available for senior guys to use. The helmets are safer, protect the temples better and also the back of the head, and even the neck area on some designs. The cons: slower to put on and take off, hotter in warm weather, don't always allow the use of one's glasses to fit underneath, and heavier. It is also more difficult to put a bill on most helmets to protect from pitching into a low sun, or protect from rain showers. With masks, it is easier to provide a bill: some come with one attached; some guys expand a baseball cap to fit over; others glue a bill on; I use a slip-over bill that does the job. None of these approaches are as helpful and convenient as a regular baseball cap and no mask.

2. Decide if you want a plastic mask (advertised to be as strong as lucite) that is lighter with no bars, or a metal mask that frankly has better visibility on a ground ball at your feet than any plastic mask. Both styles work well when the ball is coming right at your head. Another consideration is peripheral vision if that is important to you.

3. Don't worry about the cost. Most are under $100 and as long as you have to buy one, might as well buy one that is reliable and comfortable.

4. If at all possible, try one on before ordering on-line or buying at a sporting goods store. I have had three different masks over the years and two I couldn't wear! One was too small for my head, even though it was the largest (designed for women's softball, remember) of that brand, and another was too constricted around my chin so I had difficulty communicating with my fielders, though some of my teammates considered this a benefit:=) And if you are balding, don't forget to try the mask on over your cap or watch cap, whatever you plan to wear underneath to prevent sunburn.

Good luck, and start wearing it at league games and even batting practice to get used to it for tournament play.
March 3, 2014
SS13
19 posts
I still pitch against upper level young guys as well as senior ball, and I am now wearing the Worth helmet. Takes a little to get used to but does give you alot more confidence. Not exactly sure what I'm going to do about sunshine in my face since I'm used to wearing a hat all the time. But you can wear sunglasses with it. Hope this helps.
March 4, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Well put Omar.
March 4, 2014
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
I noticed this past weekend at a big young guy's tournament that many infielders are now wearing face masks. Sign of the times??
March 4, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Something to consider w\o it not much difference in games;

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9106204/mlb-not-ready-approve-padded-cap-lining-opening-day
March 4, 2014
Vance+50
16 posts
I agree BruceinGa. It's also a sign of people not taking care of infields like they should. I've seen some nice complexes with terrace row infields. With the bats being used in this day and age, no one in the infield should be comfortable.
March 4, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
Vance, you're on to something. I played 8 games at a complex in California recently—not a bad bounce the whole time! The infield was hard because of the heat and low humidity, but it was so nicely groomed that despite being fast, it wasn't a problem for infielders. Bad infields don't have to be that way, but since so many are, I, too, have seen more and more infielders wearing a mask—usually a Rip-It with better visibility.
March 5, 2014
southernson
261 posts
Since there ate no specifics on a mask, I have an old Yogi bear mask that should work fine.
March 5, 2014
Wayne 37
203 posts
I would suggest if you have a huge head, not get a helmet. Plus helmets don't have a "true" fit to the shape of one's head.
March 6, 2014
Graphite
22 posts
@ss13 ... I suggest the Worth helment.As for the sun,eye black works good.
March 6, 2014
SS13
19 posts
Thanks Graphite, I'll try eye black.
March 10, 2014
Bruster55
17 posts
I wear a Easton batting helmet with wire protective mask.It fits great no moving around,no blind spots.
March 13, 2014
PoollShark
11 posts
I use the RIP-IT Defense Pro Mask and I like it. Lightweight and comfortable and excellent range of vision. I'll add that I've never used another one so I'm unable to give a comparative view.

http://www.ripit.com/defense-pro/
March 14, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
I see that Boombah is advertising a "Fielders mask" looks like it has great visability. Question is, it is inexpensive only $24.99, and is it for fielders, and if so would it be good for pitchers. Also, does it offer good protection, as the ads says nothing about this. Anyone know about this mask? Donny C The Yooper
March 17, 2014
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
The Senior Softball Store from this site has a couple of face masks that should work. The biggest complaints that I have heard on helmets is loss of peripheral vision and overheating during summer play.
March 19, 2014
hurler
11 posts
yooper you guys playing up there in the traverse city area,would like to bring a team up there.does rickey still have a team.
March 19, 2014
joel 1975
42 posts
leauge starts middle of may
March 20, 2014
?
86 posts
For those of you that think the whole blame for wearing masks is on the bats only.

Did you see the shot Aroldis Chapman took to the face?



March 20, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
That shot to Chapman's face was scary and it won't be the last in baseball. And these guys are in their 20s and 30s, in the prime of athletic condition, and they still can't catch up with a 90+ mph batted ball from 60 feet away.

Now go to the senior pitcher who is 50 feet away, with the slower reflexes of an older man, and the balls still coming at 90+ toward him at times! For decades, softball, mostly played by younger men, was easily contained in parks with 250 - 270 foot fences. The bat/ball combination was such that a home run over the fence was a rarity, usually struck by your slugger. Now, in many games, home runs are routine and not just 275 feet to clear the fences, but 320, 340, 360 feet! Imagine the ball speed to travel that far. It's no surprise that SSUSA felt forced to mandate masks.

Yes, it is about the composite bats that have made a mockery of the old bat/ball standard. What else is the answer for men in their 60s and 70s who can now clear the fence when they never hit one out in their prime athletic years playing softball (like me, for example). They have somehow gotten stronger?!
March 21, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
Hurler:

Yes Ricky has a team they have won our 55+ league each of the last 6 years. He likes to field as good of team as possible. On the other hand when playing weaker teams he uses only 7 - 8 players. He does have a good bunch of guys on the team and they make a lot of SUSSA and SPA events and win a lot.

Omar: You are correct about the shorter distance for us older folks who have much less reflexes than we used to. The bats and balls do make the ball move pretty quick. I still recall using wooden bats and that ball came back darn fast up the middle. Yes fewer homeruns back than, normally just the big sluggers and the fences were 250-275. Had to hit a homerun within first two at bats cause after that the ball was too soft. Oh, the memories. I still love using the better bats and balls as I do not go out of my way to look for a bat that has no zip to it. One could find better wooden bats than others way back when, seemed most folks wanted the best they could get. Has always been a brand that seemed to have more zip in it no doubt you did the same. Perhaps tecnology has gone to far or we need to make some changes to compensate for that. I still say pitch from further back, and importantly throw higher arc and give the pitcher a chance. Donny C The Yooper.
March 21, 2014
?
86 posts

Omar

Don't know where you play ball.....

So you think senior softball players need composite bats to hit the ball 300 feet or more.

You are insulting to many senior softball hall of fame players by insinuating that they only got into the HOF because of the bats they used, and that they are not capable of hitting a softball 300+ feet using a WOOD BAT!

YOU ARE SO WRONG!

It would NOT VERY HARD to find 100's of senior softball players across the country that can hit a softball 300' using a WOOD BAT.






March 21, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
Omar:
I know we have senior players that can hit the ball 300 feet with wooden bats. No way am I trying to be insulting to these players. They got into the HOF for not only being great hitters but being complete players and the cream of the crop. Many of these players could hit it out with a broom stick. The majority of players that love the game are not in the HOF but still love to play as much as possible. I am saying I cannot hit the ball like those folks because of mainly my size 5'5". Therefore I willingly admit a better bat/ball helps me hit a ball further but I am not in their league whatsoever. A senior bat is somewhat of an equalizer (if they were using wooden bats) but I will never hit the ball like the folks you are talking about, but I sure wish I could. I admire these folks and love to see them play. Sorry I led you to feel that they are in the HOF because of better bats as that was not my intention at all. To answer your question I play ball mainley in MI, Indiana, Kentucky, TN, Ohio and GA. Perhaps we can meet one day and have a conversation about this, if you get to any places I go to I enjoy meeting people that love to play ball. Donny C, The Yooper.
March 21, 2014
Vance+50
16 posts
If you don't think the composite bats have made softball a different animal, you are kidding yourself. "Back in the day" you knew who the guys were that had Home Run potential. These days any 130 lb kid can yank the ball out of the park every time he steps up. I would like to see "100's" of senior softball players that could hit home runs in a 300 foot park with a wooden bat. There may be a few, but not hundreds. Doesn't take away from any HOF guys. They got there because they are the best at what they do. They play the same game that everybody else plays, just do it better.
March 21, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
Vance: Yes better bats have made a difference and always have. I recall when TPS sarted making a better bat and than DeMarini. They went from 36-38 oz bats to 33oz and now they are lighter than that. These bats made more people homerun hitters as did the better balls. Composite bats are the newer technology and they have made a powerful impact. I recall around 2000 when the Mikun Ultra II came out I think it was banned shortly after from ASA and other organizations, but now we have it and others in Senior legaue when we have slower reflexes. Back in the day seemed we always new who could hit it out, normally just a few guys on a team and now we get several that can hit it out and on an average team. The HOF guys are just as you say they are the best at what they do just simply great athletes. Donny C The Yooper
March 21, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
Donny, I agreed with your first post completely. It was "?" responding to me who somehow thought I was saying that long ball hitters of decades ago could not hit one out with a wooden bat. Not even close to what I said. In fact, I acknowledged that teams often had a slugger or two that COULD hit it out. Since softball began there have been powerful men, who work on their skills, that could hit a softball a mile. As a pitcher, I was always cautious with these titans and would back up after I pitched to them. But they were a rarity.

Proof? When softball began to erupt as a popular sport, rec departments by the thousands all over the country were carving out land to build new ball parks to accommodate the need for more fields. They surveyed the sport, asked experts, and decided that 250 foot fences would contain the vast majority of flies to the outfield. As proof of that, they sometimes put children's playgrounds, picnic areas, flower gardens, etc. on the other side of the fence, or even roads with cars going by. Any rec department that would commission a short fence like that today could be sued for negligence!

What changed? Not the balls particularly. Not the hitters significantly. But the bats, and not even the single wall aluminum, but the double walls, then the triple walls, then the composites! Some of those bats were so hot they were universally banned as dangerous or uncompetitive. And now you have the situation with batter after batter, in their fifties, sixties, even seventies, who never hit one out in their life, capable of clearing the fence with their composites!

Vance+50 makes my point. I'm a prime example. For 50 years I played on the same field with 260 foot fences and NEVER reached the fence in hundreds of games. I never even reached the warning track. Then I get one of the early Miken II bats, am at a tournament with older fields at 265, and hit two out in the same game! Did I suddenly become that much stronger in my sixties, even though I'm not working out? Nope. It was all in the bat. That's why I wear a mask when I pitch, mandated or not.
March 21, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
Omar:
A bit of miscommunication, but worked out. I agree we have always had some powerful hitters and I have always been careful of them when I pitched. Yes, when better bats TPS/Demirini came out I started to also hit it over the fence and I could not before. Now with the ultra II I can still hit some but they are fewer, guess I am getting older and more out of shape. I may have to get a mask if I want to continue to pitch or perhaps just go play third. I tried a mask and it inhibites my vision so much and it makes me sweat a lot hard to see with sweat in your eyes. I am from up North got like 4 ft. snow yet and playing in 90's is tough and worse with the helmet and face mask. I guess one can get used to anything just takes some time and patience. Hope to see you on the field. Donny C The Yooper.
March 21, 2014
Home Plate
15 posts

Vance+50

Take a good look at 40 M+ teams to find hitters that can hit softballs 300 feet with wood bats. 2 guys that I think have that ability would be Jose Canseco and possibly Super Dave Vasquez. What about Mike Machenko? I have no doubt there are many others in the upper age levels. You just need to look around to find them.




March 21, 2014
Home Plate
15 posts
Vance+50

Take a good look at 40 M+ teams to find hitters that can hit softballs 300 feet with wood bats. 2 guys that I think have that ability would be Jose Canseco and possibly Super Dave Vasquez. What about Mike Machenko? I have no doubt there are many others in the upper age levels. You just need to look around to find them.




March 24, 2014
Vance+50
16 posts
Home Plate, I have no doubt that you are right about those guys. However, there aren't a lot of "those" guys walking around. If you read what I posted, I agreed that there were a few guys that could do that, just not 100's.
March 24, 2014
neck10
498 posts
yooper hit from second base have a better chance to hit it over the fence,Ill grove you lol
March 24, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
Neck10: Rik you are right if I could just hit from 2ed base, I would be a homerun hitter. This thread got onto the conversation can many people hit a homerun 300 plus with a wooden bat. If I recall you hit a homerun off of me using a wooden bat a couple years back. Our fences must be around 300'. Granted, I gave you a meatball pitch just to see if you could do it. lol I think you have a couple of others on your team that can do that like Billy. Do you think our snow will be gone by May? -7 this morning and weatherman saysd all week like this. Donny C The Yooper
April 2, 2014
neck10
498 posts
YEA I almost screwed myself in the ground with my swing tho.I don't swing for power when we travel , but in our league I have to,so im going to hit more the foul ball I hit over the fence went a lot farther than the fair ball hr did.LOL We had that big fellow ROB SCHLEEDE on our young team Im sure he could hit a ball 350 with wooden bat and thos bats weren't very good bats.call me Donnie you guys arnt signed up yet for league I need you there for my batting average LOL 231-218-4787
May 5, 2014
capp16
5 posts
I would suggest Rip-It pitchers masks. I haven't tried any others but it's what I see being worn pretty often, even by fastpitch or little leagues. They are meant to be worn by infielders as well, so they stay on nicely and don't get in the way of your vision. They also have one that eliminates glare.

Not sure if there is a good selection in stores but you can get a good variety online at the basic sport stores and I also found a good site that explains different types of protection and describes Rip-It masks in depth- http://www.pitchershelmet.com/ Someone suggested getting a mask with plastic bars so it isn't as heavy, but I'd be afraid that would break easier. They use steel for better protection but it's lightweight so it isn't heavy. I'd also suggest trying on the mask and playing with it in practice or a game to see how you like while you're actually in action.

I know a couple pitchers that got hit so even if some people think the bats are to blame, it's still good to take protective action.
May 5, 2014
Rich33
Men's 50
3 posts
I use the Worth Mask. Lightweight and good visability thru grill.
May 6, 2014
gu_nn00
Men's 60
7 posts
I too have pitched for many years and wearing this equipment makes me feel like a "target" for a lot of hitters. I was hit more last season than I was combined in my entire career.

A real simply solution but it will never take root because the associations and bat manufactures are deep "in bed" with each other, is to simply go back to the bats and balls that all of us used in our heyday and get rid of these high-tech weapons being used now.

I've had guys hit the long ball on me that in their heyday, could NOT hit a golf ball out. IT IS TRULY RIDICULES AT TIMES!
May 6, 2014
txtable
Men's 55
12 posts
I totally agree with gunn00................They always talk about safety but make us Pitchers "bring a knife to a gun fight"............Get the arc up a bit and give us Pitchers some tools to work with instead of "telling" us to be a "target" and to dress up like a Hockey Goalie!!!!!!!
May 6, 2014
wick_stick
Men's 50
2 posts
Great assessment Gu_nn00! Well put! TOO BAD NOTHING WILL BE ADDRESSED OR CHANGED UNTIL THE INEVITABLE DEATH OF A FELLOW PITCHER!
May 6, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
fellow pitchers, there is no doubt that the current composite bat/lively ball has changed the game. It is really an offense vs defense argument. Defense-oriented players would like to return to conditions of the past, say 1999…or even 1985. Offense guys like the pop in the hot composite bats.

As far as masks, you young guys in the 50s ought to wander over and watch the older divisions in your next tournament. Not only are the pitchers masked and armored up, but so is a growing number of infielders! We play with the same hot bat/ball combo, and a lot of older players feel it is too dangerous to take chances.

Why doesn't defense like composites? Pitchers are vulnerable and wear masks. Corner fielders are vulnerable as well. When is the last time you saw a third baseman playing at the bag on a hitter, which was the norm 30 years ago? Shortstops and second basemen are irritated that so many batters can zoom the ball through the hole that they knew they could get to with the previous conditions. Outfielders are playing much deeper than they like to try to stop the more frequent bombs, and with the larger newer fields to accommodate the hot conditions, they run a lot more than in the past with less satisfaction—the ball still get through and goes to the fence. The catcher? He doesn't care.

The problem, of course, is that when defensive players get their turn at bat, they reach for their Miken. They are conflicted (who isn't?). All that being said, I would like to go back to single walls, lively ball or not. And I'm saying that as an old geezer who hit a home run in my last tournament—me, who didn't hit a single home run in my first 48 years of playing rec ball!
May 6, 2014
corvette_ace
Men's 60
7 posts
Well said Omar Well said! Bring back a little of the old days or as stated earlier, at least consider moving the arc higher for the "Pitching Nation".
May 6, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
corvette_ace, I could live with a high arc, even an unlimited arc (especially now as we pitch to the mat). But that might be tough to bring about. The year that ASA allowed an unlimited arc was the closest I ever came to throwing a no-hitter in slow pitch softball (one hit in the 5th inning). But boy did the batters scream! Unfair! Unhittable! And for the guys on your team who can't hit a fungo fly ball to save themselves, it was nearly unhittable. What a wonderful year for a pitcher!
May 6, 2014
corvette_ace
Men's 60
7 posts
Indeed what a great year for Pitchers Omar..........If they would at least bring the arc up several feet especially with the mat, it most likely would even the playing field a little so to speak for us "chuckers"!
May 6, 2014
gu_nn00
Men's 60
7 posts
THE PROBLEM IS WHETHER OR NOT ARE THE "POWERS TO BE" ARE LISTENING OR ARE THEY STILL KISSING THE BAT MANUFACTURE'S *** AND POCKETING THE $$$$ ALONG WITH THE BAT MANUFACTURES...........
May 6, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
corvette_ace, I had enough time in unlimited arc years to run back behind second base if I wanted to!:=) Now that is protection! The strike zone with that high arc was incredibly small, but if you could put it within 3 inches of the back of the plate, the ump would give you the strike. I remember one ump, especially, a pitcher himself, who just smiled and kept calling strikes if the ball was within 6 inches of the plate. He's not the ump of my one-hitter game. And I think I pitched 4 or 5 shutouts that year. It was indeed a great year!
May 7, 2014
The yooper
28 posts
Rik: We finaly got our team in, lost our sponser and the players will have to pay some bucks. What do you mean you never hit for power when you travel I recall in TN a few years back you hit it over the scoreboard.
We need to increase the arc that will help protect the pitchers like Omar said one has time to "run back to second base" and allow them to have much more of an impact on the game. High arc changs the game a lot as it is much more difficult to hit, I have had a lot of strike outs with high arc in the past, seldom now perhaps a foul ball on last strike.High arc really keeps the run count down. I have to admit I do not like hitting high arc as well as the low arc meatball pitches we have gotten so use to. Not saying anything about the pitchers as I am one, but it is slow pitch, curves, knuckle balls move some but they come in so slow still easy to hit. Why we often here slow pitch is a hitters game. I do not think the arc will ever raise too many folks like the meatball pitches. Donny C the Yopper
May 8, 2014
corvette_ace
Men's 60
7 posts
Have everyone noticed that this extensive discussion about the arc, hot bats, etc., that no one ( a.k.a. SSUSA Staff ) has said a word and I agree with everyone on this serious problem/situation that needs to be addressed!
May 8, 2014
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
401 posts
Just a guess but I think if a league went to unlimited arc that some Associations that did not would see a significant increase in team participation while the one with unlimited arc would see team participation dwindle.
May 8, 2014
brickloader
Men's 60
3 posts
No need for unlimited arc but I believe the Pitchers of which I am one, would simply like the arc limited extended by a few feet which would allow Pitchers to at least have that extra moment to back towards 2nd and give them just a few moments extra to set themselves and it is a good question...........Why hasn't the SSUSA staff at least chimed in on this extensive conversation???
May 8, 2014
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Raising the arc of the pitch would do wonders for the protection of pitchers and others on defense. We all know that unless the majority all ban together in strength, that an unlimited arc is never going to happen. The San Fernando Valley in Southern California, is the only league I am aware of, that has an unlimited arc and use a crappy ball and only single wall bats. Their many leagues are always full.

The scenario mentioned about raising the arc a couple of feet, is a complete joke. Right now the arc limit is 12 feet. It is a rare day in hell that any umpire lets a pitcher throw 12 feet. This is because most umpires do not have a clue what 12 feet is. Let's be honest, it is just a judgement call. In my last tournament in the winds of Vegas, I was not allowed to throw a ball higher than about 8-9 feet or it was called too high. In those winds, I only throw it high, if I got ahead of the batter. It was a challenge to throw strikes that weekend, but quite fun. In the Vegas Worlds last year with the Director watching our game, I threw a ball that could not have been more than 8 feet tops and it was called too high. I looked up at the Director, and he just shook his head and walked away. He knew that was wrong, but I think that umpire did not call any more games and/or was talked to after our game??

JMHO,

Andy Smith,
60 Major
May 9, 2014
neck10
498 posts
move to northern michigan cant say for sure if you can snow ski in july but know for sure the chance could be there LOL
May 11, 2014
txtable
Men's 55
12 posts
LOOK AT THIS RATHER LENGTHY DISCUSSION AND WHAT DON'T YOU SEE. NO REPLY WHAT SO EVER FROM THE SSUSA STAFF. TOO BUSY COUNTING THEIR MONEY AND STAYING OUT OF THE WAY WITH THE HOPE THAT THIS DISCUSSION JUST FADES AWAY!
May 12, 2014
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Txtable, there are a few that have the same dialog every year, that everything is to hot! However the majority like the bat and ball combo... so, yes SSUSA is not going to keep beating a dead horse.. They have already have stated they are not changing the current ball and bat combo..
May 12, 2014
SS13
19 posts
You know, umpires do have the authority to toss batters they they feel are going middle on purpose. Saw it this yr. in a usssa tourney. Same batter 2 times in a row hit the pitcher and got tossed.
May 13, 2014
txtable
Men's 55
12 posts
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A REPLY FROM THE SSUSA STAFF ON THIS SUBJECT AND FROM THE LOOKS OF THINGS, SO WOULD A LOT OF US ESPECIALLY THE PITCHERS.

QUIT HIDING BEHIND YOUR DESK AND MAKE SOME SORT OF QUALITY STATEMENT SSUSA STAFF..........WANT TO HEAR YOUR SIDE OF THIS LENGTHY DISCUSSION!!!!
May 13, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
txtable - Playing Rules changes are considered formally only once per year, at the Rules Committee sessions during the SSUSA Annual Convention ... This year's convention is in early December in Tupelo, MS ... Public participation is both allowed and encouraged ... In addition to direct public participation, the 13-member Rules Committee accepts written correspondence on issues of concern to the membership by regular mail and by e-mail (addresses for both are readily available) ... Message Board commentary, due to its generally anonymous and unregulated nature, is not considered for Rules Committee Agenda inclusion ... Accordingly, and consistent with almost all other items discussed herein, the posting public will be providing the only commentary here on this topic ...

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