http://www.seniorsoftballstore.com

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 2 members: Johnny Hose, Ss8; 52 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Midwest Championships - WHAT YOU GET FOR YOUR $495.00 ENTRY FEE

Posted Discussion
June 15, 2009
gb69
Men's 60
41 posts
Midwest Championships - WHAT YOU GET FOR YOUR $495.00 ENTRY FEE
1. Not a five game guarantee. You got 3, or 4 games. That's $165 or $123.75 per game played.

2. Sub par fields.

3. Sub par Umpires. Lack of knowledge of Senior rules.

4.One bathroom at Itasca Softball Complex.

5. No parking at Itasca Softball Complex.

6. A second home plate. Too expensive, SSUSA will charge extra entry fee if extra plate is used.

7. 40 teams missing from this years tournament,Champaign around 90 teams total.

8. No plans for makeing up rain out games.
June 15, 2009
WOW
197 posts
But don't forget, you were lucky enough to get those "special SSUSA hotel room rates"
June 15, 2009
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
Let see,we got a nice Trophy,a ring option,some really cool Miken carry on bags,an invite to T.O.C.,Four really competitive games against 3 other Major plus teams for a change and great room rates at the Holiday Inn Express.(53.00) a night for double rooms.All in all it beats the hell out of laying around getting fat ugly.There is not alot you can do about the weather in the Midwest but make do.
June 15, 2009
Par
Men's 50
10 posts
Agreed that Mother Nature called the shots-however it could have and should have been handled better by either the TD, the city or both. When teams come from 9 hours away to play like us, we have a problem when the sun is shining at 4:00 pm and had been shining since 1:00 pm after 1/4 inch of rain and games are called for the day. There could have and should have been games played from 4 pm until 10 pm on Sat afternoon & evening. Yeah it sucks for us that we lost and were eliminated at 7:30 am the next day but trust me our team will not be back. The TD should have demanded that games needed to be played on Saturday to protect the "integrity" of the tournament (the TD's words). The "integrity" of the tourney was not protected by going to a single elim tourney. Play this at Mid-America (a 10 field ag-lime facility) and 1 hour after the rain stopped we would have been playing. Do the math-58 teams at $500/team and not having to pay field rental, umpires, lights or maintenance workers on Saturday somebody made out like Jesse James and it wasn't the players. Oh wait, I forgot, isn't Senior Softball "for the players???
June 15, 2009
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
Par,I talked to Dave about why Saturday was totally canceled and his reply was he tried to schedule games but was trumped by the city in concerns over liabilities were as, if he pursued this and someone was injured the liability would have fallen directly in his lap.I think Dave (Dowell) did as good as he could under circumstances.He hands were tied once the city dropped the liability bomb.Saturday he was adamant that all games would be played up until that conversation with city officials.
June 15, 2009
gb69
Men's 60
41 posts
SSUSA Special rate at Holiday Inn Express - $53.00

Priceline - Sheraton Northwest $40.00 and Marriot Schmburg $50.00. Doubles or Kings
June 16, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
244 posts
With a little work fields would have been in great shape by 4 or 5 pm. I don't understand the liability bomb the City layed on Dave. At 1pm teams were hiting in outfield and infields had a little standing water at home plate but 20 minutes on each field they would have been in better shape than Friday when there were very dusty and hard. The city's liability policy is a joke and I hope Dave informed them that this was unacceptable. The park officials rain policy should be discussed before booking the Tourney,of course they could aways tell you one thing and then do something else. Lets put it this way in 40+ years of playing this great game I don't ever remember games canceled with fields being in as good shape as these were.

June 16, 2009
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
JohnBob I agree,we were one of the first teams up there hitting Saturday and the fields were very playable by 4 o'clock.It left me scratching my head why we were not playing.After talking to Dave I guess I understand his position as well.To gb69 those rates we got were not SSUSA rates all host hotels were booked when I tried to book.This was expedia rates.I understand your frustration.We were not happy with the situation but we just won't to play like you guys do.In Michigan that would have been just a mild interruption and play would have continued Sat. eve.
June 16, 2009
tater9
62 posts
Liability bomb are you kidding? Wouldn't that be a very important question to ask city officials during the negotiation process for the use of their fields prior to the tourney knowing you are having teams coming in from all over the place? As JohnBob said those fields were in better shape by 4:00PM Saturday than they were Friday. Do some research, there are plenty of facilities that would love to host these events where you wouldn't have to cancel for a little rain or have "liability bomb" thrown at you. You don't need to have adverse playing conditions to prove negligence on the city's part.
Just find venues where the weather isn't such a big issue.
June 16, 2009
Walk
192 posts
I cannot play again this year because of shoulder replacement surgery May 4th (I wonder if next year I will still be considered an impact player two knees and a shoulder should get me off that list and there is a list trust me on that) so my thoughts might not be worth the time it took me to write this.

I find this amazing because at one time this tournament was thought to be held in KC. Had it been in KC you would have played on 10 field that can with stand large amount of rain and still play with in two hours of it stopping. The city does not make decisions for Mid Am they do that. Had it been in KC this past two weeks you would have had a great weekend to play with one morning of rain (it did not stop the tournament that was going on), a nice week prior to last weekend (with a little rain but still play went on), and a great place to play.

I wonder why more tournaments do not come to KC? Anyway just my thoughts. I have to do something to feel involved so don't take this as I am against the upper midwest but we do have great ballparks here in KC and really we are nice people.
Walk
June 16, 2009
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
We had to wait in line to take BP on Saturday at 3:30. The fields were in great shape. Almost every team was hitting on those fields Saturday afternoon. Consider the amount of rain in Champaign last year!! They got a lot more games in with far more rain than we saw in Scamburg. Umpires called the coaches pre game meetings to ask for a tutorial on the rules. Move it back to Champaign (Or anywhere else) or count us out for next year. Very POORLY run tournament!!
June 16, 2009
stig1
Men's 60
32 posts
I have a question for SSUSA staff. Why did the teams not receive a partial refund? I know you saved a lot of money from the games that were not played and I am sure you did not pay for the field rental on sat. Some kind of good faith refund is in order or will this be standard practice to cancel as much of a tournament as you can when it rains. This can be called the Tournament Director Bonus.
June 16, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Guys,

I was at the diamonds on Sat. and Terry H. said to pay what ever it cost to get the diamonds ready to play on Sat. but only the park Dept. could work on fields and it's my guess they either didn't have the personel or did'nt want to pay the extra hours so maybe we should just boycott the city and not ss/usa. We also would have loved to play on Sat.

Butch
June 16, 2009
Par
Men's 50
10 posts
I too am having trouble understanding the "liability issue". Aren't we all "liable" to get hurt everytime we step on the softball field, dry, slightly wet or real wet? I've seen plenty of guys get hurt on a dry field too. I mean we are not 25-35 years old anymore and in great shape although I like to think I am in "reasonable" shape for my age. I think the full story isn't being told & we may never know why no games were played Sat afternoon or evening.
June 16, 2009
lazer larry
Men's 50
96 posts
Butch i agree. Look at the job they did in Champagne last year and we moved there for this? They had 4 times the rain to handle and did it. Also we don't pay the inflated prices for everything. 50c higher for a gallon of gas. I haven't been there in years and won't be back either. Lazer
June 16, 2009
stick8
1238 posts
Larry not only that but you guys drained all the Coors Light out of Schaumburg! What happened to you guys Sunday?
June 16, 2009
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
588 posts
I was not there, but in my experiences public parks usually do not have the grounds crew or make the effort that a private park can.

Rain is never good, but while a private park would get this through, you would probably have other issues that you would not be happy about. Gate fees (to help pay for a grounds crew, etc), playing until the sun comes up, one pitch, and shorter time limits are all part of this). I have seen our Timmy get a tournament through even if he had to use only the turf diamond 24 hours a day, but teams will flip on that too. I remember one tournament where the players just stripped in the parking lot, and it was littered with muddy jerseys and pants that no one wanted in their cars, but the tournament completed. So be careful of what you wish for.

Also because I know Dave to be an honest broker (I can not say that about every tournament director that I have dealt with over the years), I fully believe that the issue was with the public park. I know that the ones that I have worked with in my state and Illinois usually do not have personnel available on the weekends (or not as available), and they do not have the personnel, equipment, or diamond dry to even deal with weather issues.

The rain has been plentiful this year in the Midwest. We had leagues that were rained out their first 4 weeks, and almost as many games have been cancelled as have been played so far this year. Timmy has had the best luck in the city, but he will play through the rain. We got 2.9 inches one day last week, and he got the whole night in, but I am sure glad that I was not playing or officiating that night.
June 16, 2009
tater9
62 posts
Nancy,
Then why in the world would you hold a tournament of this type at a venue knowing that you would almost have to have perfect weather to complete the tourney as teams expected? That type of logic is hard for me to grasp!!!
June 16, 2009
lazer larry
Men's 50
96 posts
Stick, 12 hrs of beer and poker didn't help us. We never learn. Beer legs and arms, i think. It was great to put a face to the name and your invited in for a cold 1 any time you see us. You have a great group of guys on your team. We would have liked to been there Sun. to play you, but didn't make it . Hopefully next time. Lazer Out
June 16, 2009
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
588 posts
Tater9, well it is often the luck of a draw. I am sure years ago during the world series they asked that question when the earthquake hit San Francisco. I have been in Pensacola when they lost a diamond to a hurricane, and I bet they had issues when the volcano blew in the NW at their diamonds. We had a perfect weekend during the Brickyard qualifier, but it had rained every day before that. The last 2 years we had very few rainouts, but you have to play softball somehow irregardless.
June 16, 2009
SSUSA Staff
1010 posts
MIDWEST CHAMPIONSHIPS DIRECTOR'S OBSERVATIONS

Scheduling Criteria

"Five games minimum scheduled, with Round Robin into Double Elimination or Three-Game-Guarantee brackets" (from event Tournament Page) [Emphasis added] Comment: The Scheduling Criteria of five games was met for all teams in the initial tournament master schedule. The Tournament personnel also fully complied with SSUSA Rule Book 15 regarding Adverse Weather procedures.

Saturday (June 13) Chronology

6:45 AM - Tournament Director arrived at Olympic Park to moderate rain and marginally playable conditions
7:30 AM - Rain had reduced to a drizzle and fields were closer to playable. T.D. made decision to play as scheduled at 8:00 AM.
8:00 AM - One game began (two batters) and hard rains hit. All teams abandoned their dugouts.
8:40 AM - T.D> advised teams the first step would be the full Saturday schedule being pushed back to a 10:00 AM start, weather and field conditions permitting.
10:15 AM - Rains continuing, and all fields were flooded and unplayable. T.D. met with City of Schaumburg Parks Dept. official and agreed to re-convene at 1:00 PM to assess options under an ultimate goal of commencing play by late afternoon. Parks official raised City issue of who is paying for overtme costs to make fields playable. T.D. committed to SSUSA covering whatever costs might be incurred, without restriction.
10:30 AM - 1:00 PM - T.D. was at FedEx/Kinkos doing complete re-draft of Saturday and Sunday game schedules and brackets. Each team was scheduled to play at least two (2) more games, with remaining seeding games discarded and brackets played in standard Double Elimination format instead of three-game-guarantee format. Games were to resume at 3:30 PM Saturday and play through potentially 9:30 PM game starts. SSUSA and Woodfield Northwest CVB officials had planned for precisely this possibility prior to the tournament and were ready to go.
1:10 PM - T.D. returns to Olympic Park with revised schedules in hand and is informed, with no debate allowed, by Parks official that there would be no games the balance of Saturday. Field operations crew chief attempted to let his boss know they could 'probably' get it ready for play by 4:00 PM if the rain would stop (it did stop during this meeting), but Park official had her mind made up on the 'no play' position. She asserted a liability issue due to conditions (which were uplayable at that time, but would prove to be very playable in the late afternoon). T.D. asked what liability she was concerned about, since SSUSA had provided $2.0 mil. in liability coverage in their favor as part of the fields use contract. Her reply was there would be no play on Saturday and she got in her car and left the park.
1:30 PM - T.D. calls Itasca Field Director and is told the crew is working there feverishly to have one field playable by 6:00 or 7:00 PM Saturday night. (They ultimately are successful and the 55-AAA Best 2 of 3 Championship Series is played on the ONLY field of all seven in in the mix that was used Saturday.) T.D. also posts Message Board item advising of Saturday cancellation.
1:45 - 6:00 PM - T.D. does second complete schedule re-draft of the day, eliminating Saturday games. During this time, sun comes out and it gets rather breezy, perfect conditions for curing adverse field conditions. By 3:30 or 4:00 PM, fields would have supported play, but were unavailable to us due to unilateral 'no-play' decision made prematurely by Schaumburg Parks official. Sunday schedule posted with 7:30 AM start and goes to Modified Sngle Elimination format for most divisions, with provisional "If" games (pursuant to SSUSA Rulebook 13.3(11) on page 90). Second revision is posted online at 6:10 PM.
6:15 - 7:15 PM - T.D. is back at FedEx/Kinkos to photocopy revised schedules and brackets for on-site posting.

Summary

SSUSA and Woodfield Northwest CVB had pre-planned for precisely the occurrence that ultimately transpired (based on recent years' experiences in Champaign with this event). League play had been postponed Saturday night at both facilities so the original schedule could be maintained on a delayed basis, if needed. One person, a Schaumburg Parks Dept. official, made the decision to prevent the contingency plan from being implemented, for reasons known only to her. While we at SSUSA are ultimately responsible for the success of any of our events, that should not be confused with being assessed the blame for circumstances completely out of our control, including the adverse weather conditions which led to the eventual, and highly questionable, 'no-play' decision. Our on-site personnel exhibited patience in the decision making process, drafted the Tournament schedule three times and did the best they could under the circumstances to ensure that the Champions were determined on the field of play in all divisions, and not based upon a less definitive interpretation of round robin seeding games played two days previously. We at SSUSA are as disappointed as the players at the way this event was impacted.
June 16, 2009
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
Nancy.......The diamonds were perfect at 3:30 Sat afternoon. IF it WAS a grounds crew issue, I know about 4 teams full of guys that would have manned a rake and shovel. It was totally unacceptable.
June 16, 2009
stick8
1238 posts
Larry it was funny that one of your guys told us Sunday morning that the team always does well in the prelims but stinks it up in the tourney. Too many beers and tailgating lends itself to that but what else was there to do on Saturday? Good meeting you and I appreciate the beer plus look forward to more battles with you guys down the road.
June 16, 2009
Bob50
Men's 55
238 posts
I believe Dave Dowell, Rudy Pribble and SSUSA did all that was possible under the circumstances. We've had an unusually cold and wet spring in the Chicago area this year. You can't plan for these things. About ten years ago we had a February tournament completely rained out in Florida. You can't plan for unusual weather. All that we can ask for is their best effort to keep the tournament going with as many games as possible.

Based upon what we have heard however SSUSA may want to consider not going back to Schaumburg again.

Bob Schulz
June 16, 2009
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Terry, Dave and Fran run the best organization out there. Without them, we got NOTHING! In my 7 years in senior softball, I would say 95%+ of the tournies have gone off without a hitch. As Forest Gump said, "sometimes it happens"
June 16, 2009
bullet
Men's 55
130 posts
Corky
Ask Nancy we had GREAT weather in Shelbyville
June 17, 2009
Par
Men's 50
10 posts
1:10 PM - T.D. returns to Olympic Park with revised schedules in hand and is informed, with no debate allowed, by Parks official that there would be no games the balance of Saturday. Field operations crew chief attempted to let his boss know they could 'probably' get it ready for play by 4:00 PM if the rain would stop (it did stop during this meeting), but Park official had her mind made up on the 'no play' position. She asserted a liability issue due to conditions (which were uplayable at that time, but would prove to be very playable in the late afternoon). T.D. asked what liability she was concerned about, since SSUSA had provided $2.0 mil. in liability coverage in their favor as part of the fields use contract. Her reply was there would be no play on Saturday and she got in her car and left the park.

Ok, if that's the case, I never want to see any SSUSA event scheduled for Schaumburg, Il again. Never means never!!! Go somewhere else.
June 17, 2009
tater9
62 posts
Also, next time find out who makes the final decision if the tournament is to continue if adverse weather conditions exist. If the TD is not allowed to have a major say on the continuation of play then don't book the site! Having some clueless park official dictate your tournament outcome is crazy!!
PS Try KC next year,(Mid-America) the place would have to be blown off the map for you not to play!

June 17, 2009
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
588 posts
Bullet and Corky, Shelbyville was nice weather on Friday and Saturday, but the 65+ and older got rained out Wednesday morning, and the park (also public) convinced the director to call off Wednesday and Thursday; so they never played. I do think if they had not put a 55 minute clock on the games that there would have been an issue as it poured after your game was over (whew just made it).
June 17, 2009
SLOBALL1
Men's 50
173 posts
Nancy which team won their respective divisions?
June 17, 2009
Jags
Men's 50
8 posts
SSUSA NEEDS TO GIVE A DISCOUNT TO ALL TEAMS FROM MIDWEST CLASSIC THAT ENTER ANY FUTURE TOURNAMENT ON A ONE TIME BASIS I BELIEVE IT WOULD ONLY BE FAIR ESPECIALLY WITH THE WAY THE SCHAUMBURG TOURNAMENT WAS HANDLED IF SSUSA WAS WILLING TO PAY THE ADDITONAL COSTS INCURRED BY THE PARK DEPARTMENT THEN THE VERY LEAST SSUSA COULD DO IS ABSORBED SOME OF THE COST OF THE MEMBERS
WHO ENTER ANY FUTURE TOURNAMENT AFTER ALL THE TEAMS IN SCHAUMBURG ARE THE ONES THAT WERE HURT BY THE POOR DISCRETION OF THE PARK DIRECTOR
June 18, 2009
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
Bullet...congrats on your win in Selbyville, but the amount of major teams in shelbyville compared to shamburg, made Chicago a better fit for us. Plus it was a TOC ring tournament. BTW thats not a typo.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners