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Discussion: Team Looking For TOC Players

Posted Discussion
Jan. 11, 2010
db14
91 posts
Team Looking For TOC Players
Men's 55 AAA (Timberworks Construction) looking for two players for this years TOC. (Feb 2/11-2/14) If interested please contact Doug Robbins 530-415-6067
Jan. 12, 2010
slwptch
Men's 60
3 posts
I will be arriving in Florida on the 11th and staying thru the 18th. What positions are you looking for ? I would be very interested.

Thanks
Jan. 12, 2010
griz007
1 posts
I live in Apollo Beach, FL. and would be avaiable to play in the TOC. I am an infielder, with good power.
Contact my at 813-746-7336
Jan. 12, 2010
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
Can you pick up players for the TOC? If so I got a team that will let me play with them. If so how do you get it OK'd
Jan. 12, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Corky, From what I have been reading on the board, something is amiss. I was under the impression that the roster of the team qualifying is eligible and pick-ups are not. However there have been several players asking to be added as well as teams asking for players. Perhaps I was wrong in thinking that The TOC is for those who qualified. Happy New Year! Mel
Jan. 12, 2010
4Four4
Men's 60
83 posts
Yeah. It's like the game of "RISK" where you can only re-inforce with an army from a touching province.
Jan. 12, 2010
the answer
Men's 55
104 posts
I turn 55 in july...never played an offical senior softballtournament...only leagues and state tournaments.. would I be eligable?I live in NJ ...I recently won an open age league of 49 teams and was league/team MVP ..i PLAY lf
Jan. 12, 2010
the answer
Men's 55
104 posts
I looked at the ratings and you are listed as a major team? is this the same team from cal?
Jan. 12, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
I understand from the powers to be,that if your players are injured or can't make the TOC you CAN ADD PLAYERS.
E-mail Dave,Terry or George they can tell you for sure,but I think I am right.
Jan. 12, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
#6, You are correct, however there is a limit as to how many you can add (theoretically, of course). I'm also amused by the number of qualified teams who were moved up in the ratings after qualifying in the lower rating and will be allowed to play in their original (lower) rating group. Our team, The Indy 60's, was moved up to AAA during the August SPA tournament in Dalton. We are not adding anyone in spite of having a few key players who cannot attend.
Jan. 12, 2010
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
Here is the official rule:

13.5 Tournament in Champions
...Teams must use the roster with which they won the Championship at which they qualified. Teams may add players according to 9.2(2). (Note: should read 4.2(2).

4.2(2)Adding Players
Players may be added under the following conditions:
1. The team has qualified.
2. Playrs being added must be from an older deivision. FOR EXAMPLE: A 55+ Major team must select replacement players from a 60+ or older Major team.
3. Players added must not exceed the 20-roster limit.
4. All Divisions: Teams in any division can add players from the next older age group and in the same skill level (FOR EXAMPLE a 50+ AA team may add 55+ AA players, but may not add 55+ AAA or Major players.)
5. The number of players that may be added are limited by the number of players on a roster:
A. Teams restricted to 10 defensive playrs may add 4 players from the next older division if their roster is down to 10 players; teams may add 3 players if their roster is down to 11 players, teams may add 2 players if their roster is down to 12 players, and teams may add 1 player if their teams are down to 13 players.
B. Teams restricted to 11 defensive players may add 4 players from the next older division if their roster is down to 11 players; teams may add 3 players if their roster is down to 12 players, teams may add 2 players if their roster is down to 13 players, and teams may add 1 player if their teams are down to 14 players.
C. All players listed on the Official Roster (not including players added from the next higher age group) must be present at the Qualifier.

Pretty cut-and-dried. Same adjacent states rules also apply.
Jan. 12, 2010
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
To finish off the above discussion, Timberworks Const (55+ AAA) can therefore add players from a 60+ AAA, 65+ AAA, 70+ AAA, 75+ AAA team as required to get their roster to 14 players (max of 4 players). Geographical restrictions still apply.
Jan. 12, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Can put a real damper on a team being 3 months out from the last tourney for that year.
tough enough having Nov really the 1st for new year and not much for another month or two.
But the rule is fair on the pick up part.
Timberworks is a very good team.

Lemons, you might want to reconsider that.
Jan. 12, 2010
barrym
157 posts

question: do you have had to have played with the team when they qualified for the toc. i dont want to break any rules. Played with them in vegas world does anyone know?
Jan. 12, 2010
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
The full list of the Rules and Procedures to be followed for adding players to a TOC Roster are online here. Please click on the following link and read/print the resulting one-page Adobe PDF file. We are confident this information will be helpful.

Player Roster Add Rules
Jan. 13, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
The problems with adding players wouldn't be as much of a problem if the TOC were to be held in Nov. . Players move on or up to other teams, cold weather teams do not want to spend the money to travel because they haven't played in 3 mos or so, and can't compete evenly with the warmer weather states who play year round. It's a great tournament and I believe there would be more participation if it were held maybe a week after or a week before the Winter Worlds in Ft. Myers. Just my opinion.
Jan. 13, 2010
Paco13
373 posts
I can play either AAA or major if a sponsored team needs a player, must be released right after to play with my current team. Play SS, 2nd or OF, located in VA.
Jan. 13, 2010
Pieman
Men's 50
84 posts
Diehard, I totally agree that the TOC should be the last tournament of the year followed by Winter Nationals and Worlds.

Mike Santo
Sweet Construction 55
Jan. 13, 2010
#45inMd
Men's 60
108 posts
It seems most think tournaments should be switch.
What does SSUSA think and why?
Jan. 13, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
SSUSA STAFF,
You say "a lot of teams" requested the TOC TO BE PLAYED IN JANUARY,I am sorry but after all the players and teams I have talked too,I really find that hard to believe!
Jan. 13, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Imagine finding anything said by the staff of any senior softball organization hard to believe. I'm with you, #6.
Jan. 13, 2010
Robo2
223 posts
guys not taking sides but after seeing how players open their mouths in a group compared to one on one; and how players fail to commit to attending a tourney or canceling out. Nothing suprizes me about what anyone player may have said at the ballfield to another player vs what the team coach officially says.

I don't know if all teams have a problem with failure to communicate at an early date so that others can make vacation time; get lower rates on air etc. I know every team I have played on has a few that just don't communicate. But that is another story and a problem for the coach.

I was at the TOC last year and it was a nice break to get away in mid winter. this year is even more spliting the winter and I have heard that the temp is usually in the low to mid 70s.
Jan. 13, 2010
#45inMd
Men's 60
108 posts
SSUSA STAFF
Why does it matter what name you call the tournament WW / WN / TOC or whatever to the city/co as long you hold the tournament in that cily/co that weekend?
Jan. 13, 2010
LP
294 posts
good point #45inMd also if you moved the TOC from Feb. to Jan. then back to Feb. why coulndnt it be moved to say Nov. and still be it the same location.

its like another post said the teams would still have there same guys together. as it is now, some teams are adding players. but is that because managers have cut some of the players that were on the original teams??? who knows ! and that means some players that won the right to play in this TOC have gotten replaced. and that means a team that shows up with the original roster will play against a team that may have boosted its line up just to win the tournament.
Jan. 14, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
LP, You're right! There will probably be some teams who add and/or subtract players in order to enhance their chances of winning.....all according to the "rules". The Indy 60's will play with their existing team in spite of missing a few key players because even though winning is important, it will never take the place of the relationships we have built with our teammates over many years.
Jan. 14, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
#45, LP and lemons,

All good points! All we are saying is in order for the teams that won the TOC Qualifying tournament, to maintain that same roster and avoid cheating, (and let's not kid ourselves, it is cheating),the tournament must be moved up. We already are seeing guys coming on this website touting their availability to teams for the TOC. Now, as long as it is done within the rules, not a problem. When you see this it raises red flags. It makes you start to question the legitamacy of the TOC. Who is going to have the time to sit with the teams origional roster and compare it to their current TOC roster and then try to figure out who is legitimate and who is not. I Know SSUSA does the best that they can to avoid these situations, but when you see these players posting their availability, it does make you think.
Jan. 14, 2010
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
Here's another vote for moving the TOC to Nov & WN in Feb. My reasoning is a team has to use their 2009 roster and TOC is played in Feb 2010 and in our case we have 2 new players that can not play in this event. What I'm trying to say for a manager it's a real problem if you go to WN in Nov you can play your 2010 roster then there is a good chance 1 or 2 from the 2009 roster will quit or move up to next age group and you won't have then for TOC so now your short on players.
Jan. 14, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
diehard, I agree that moving the tournament to the actual year in which the team was a "champion" would be the simplest cure. As it stands currently, there appear to be some whose quest for the ring takes precedence.
Jan. 14, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Guys,
I fully agree the TOC should be played in the SAME YEAR.But talking to the POWERS to be,ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN,SO WHAT'S A PLAYER AND TEAM TO DO ? AND,YES I AM YELLING !
Jan. 14, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I would think that the player is to not play unless he qualified, and the team should dance with who brung them.

Otherwise what you have is a Tournament of Teams-that-won-championships-last-year-and-are-showing-up-now-with-potential-ringers.
Jan. 14, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
I consider the TOC to be a well earned honor, as far as the game of Senior Softball goes. I would never advocate boycotting or anything like that. What we all want is to play on an even level. That is why I believe it should be moved to the same year in which you win the berth. It is easier to maintain the integrity of the roster, and therefore eliminate the need to pick up players. It would then be considered a true Championship. How do we acomplish this, well at the TOC we could kidnap Dave Dowell and take him somewhere like central PA, and chain him to a backstop on some ballfield so he understands just how difficult it is for us cold weather guys to get out and practice in January for the TOC.LOL. Just kidding Dave!
Jan. 14, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
DieHard,What a great idea.Lets do it.I will bring the chains. We hit in an indoor place and had two guys get hit with a batted ball.It makes you appreciate what a pitcher has to go through. I on the other hand decided to stay behind a screen. As by boy AI has said it is only PRACTICE. Thanks Harry #20 NVFORCE
Jan. 14, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
Hi, This Was sent to me my a team mate and friend so i will not take credit for it but i do agree with him. I agree the TOC should be in November. Makes it nice and convenient. But, a contract is a contract and Lakeland signed for the TOC, not the Winter Nationals. To me the TOC is a more "prestigious" event than a qualifier. If you ordered some Mont Blanc pens and they shipped you Bic, would you accept that "a pen is a pen"? And I think it's a bs argument that guys move on. Happens all the time, even during the summer. If they are only moving up a bracket (instead of out of area) they can still play the TOC. In my opinion, those type of teams had other problems. You have to remember too that some of these contracts are not 1-2 year deals. Some of them are signed for 5-10 years down the road and were probably signed a couple of years ago so the association and city could make their long term plans. Everybody talks about the legal aspects of the PPR, but nobody is mentioning the legal aspects of a contract. I birdie do think that is a very good point. However , Diehard I will still bring the chains. Harry
Jan. 14, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Staff did issue a statement on another thread about their reasons for not changing TOC and Winter World dates, their claim is long term contracts with the respective entities involved.
In response to the issue of cold weather teams being at a disadvantage or having not played for 3 months. I suggest those questioning this look at the past winners in all Divisions and brackets.
If some of these teams havent played for 3 months they somehow manage to stay tournament ready.
Jan. 14, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
E4/E6
We do our best to stay tournament ready. Like you guys on the west coast we've been playing this game for awhile and it doesn't take too long to get back in the groove. If you play year round then you have an advantage over those that don't, and that's all that was meant. I read the statement and understand the reasons for SSUSA continuing the tournament in Lakeland, but that is a small part of what has been stated. What brought this thread about was the fact that guys are coming on this website and advertising their availability to play in a tournament that they are, by the rules, not eligible to play in. Or teams advertising for players not on their origional roster, and that raises questions about the integrity of the tournament. Now, SSUSA has nothing to do with these posts, and I am well aware of that. And they have done their best to explain or direct these individuals to the rules of the TOC. That being said, to avoid roster problems from coming up, then I believe that the tournament would be better off if it were to be played in the same year that you qualified for it. That's all. Other than what has been said, it is a wonderful tournament, and a great time.

Hey Harry, I'm looking forward to seeing you guys at the TOC. You have a great group of guys on your squad, and I for one will miss playing you guys next year. P.S., We may need more than one chain! LOL
Jan. 15, 2010
LP
294 posts
it still boils down to, should the teams play with the rosters that the won the TOC birth with. we wont play till 2011 and we have replaced three players already, and that denies them there oppotunity to play in the TOC. and with a over a year to go how many more players will get replaced,its already not the same team we qualified with. i feel bad for the guys that got replayed for they helped us win to get to the TOC now theyare gone from the team.

teams should have to play with original roster. and only be able to pick up players to play if one of the original ones are hurt, that can easily be checked out.and that should only be if a team falls below say 12 players,just a thought.
Jan. 15, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"teams should have to play with original roster. and only be able to pick up players to play if one of the original ones are hurt, that can easily be checked out"

How easy do you think it is to check out a "pulled" muscle? Or a "sprained" knee? Virtually impossible to prove, or dispute.
Jan. 15, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
Greg, I figured that you would miss us because we are like 1 and 6 against HSBs.Always fun to play against you guys. We are preparing for a better outcome at the TOC with the Force coming out on top. Take care and we will see you in Feb. Looking forward to playing again. Thanks Harry
Jan. 15, 2010
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
We went to TOC in 2008 and had to use our 2007 roster and team that won our
55M division qualified in Nov 07 at WN and was able to play in TOC with their 2008 roster. SSUSA changed this the very next year to present guidelines,which is lot better.
There are a lot of reasons it would be better if TOC was held in Nov.IMO
1-When new year starts teams are getting ready for in this case 2010 and most teams are adding a player or two because they are able to play in their age group this year.
2- Teams could be losing some players because of them being about to move up. So your 2010 team could be alot different than 2009 team.
3- In our area we call this time of year the off season and if someone needs a Knee scoped,Rotater surgery etc if possible this is the time of year to have it done.
Jan. 16, 2010
slwptch
Men's 60
3 posts
Did you find your 2 players yet ? It appears there is some confusion on what a team can do if they have injured players, or players that simply arn't there anymore. Can a team pick up 1 or 2 players under those circumstances and do they have to be in the state or abutting the state looking for a player ??
Jan. 16, 2010
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
The full list of the Rules and Procedures to be followed for adding players to a TOC Roster are online here. Please click on the following link and read/print the resulting one-page Adobe PDF file. We are confident this information will be helpful in answering most, if not all, of the questions posed here thus far.

Player Roster Add Rules

SUMMARY -
Teams may petition to add a regular team member that may have missed the specific tournament resulting in the bid to the TOC;
Teams may then add otherwise eligible players, meeting age and residency criteria, to get to 12 (or 13 for age 70+) players from the same age and same rating;
Teams may then add otherwise eligible players to get to 15 (or 16 for age 70+) players from the next higher age and same rating;
Teams adding players may not go over 15 (or 16 for age 70+) TOC roster players; and
Teams not adding players may use their entire qualifying roster, up to the 20 player maximum, for the TOC.

These TOC roster player add regulations have been strictly enforced, on a team-by-team and player-by-player basis for all teams. Managers who may post or read items here can attest to that fact.

Jan. 17, 2010
db14
91 posts
Yes...Timberworks Construction is still looking for two players. Also to all of you who seem to be concerned with any rule violations. We are following ALL rules and guidelines in accordance with SSUSA procedures. Players interested should contact Doug Robbins 530-415-6067.
Jan. 18, 2010
WiseGuy
3 posts
There seems to be a lot of concern about players picking up a player that was not on their roster, as this may give that team an added advantage. While this is a legitimate concern, I don't happen to see much concern about Teams playing in the TOC at a level BELOW the level in which they played for most of the 2009 season (i.e., AAA Teams playing in the TOC as a AA Team......Major Team playing as a AAA Team....and so on). There are several teams doing that this year. IT occurs because a team may have won a qualifier early in the year, and then got moved up to the next higher division. Although this is within the SSUSA rule, doesn't seem fair. AA Teams may be going all the way across the country only to run into AAA Teams. How is that a TOurnament of Champions for the AA Team. They may be beat before the TOC even starts.

Having 12 or 13 guys on one team playing at a lower division is more of a concern than one team possibly having a single player that may be a "ringer".

I now SSUSA is doing the best they can, and I certainly don't know what the answer is. But having the TOC in February only makes this situation worst. Luckily I'm not going.
Jan. 18, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
WiseGuy, It is your loss that you are not going. Regardless of the rankings and so forth and pick ups by other teams. your team and my team earned the right to attend this tourney. I consider it a honor to play in this tourney because we earned the right to be there an nobody can take that away from us.There are a lot of teams that wish that they had qualified for this Tourney. Thanks Harry #20
Jan. 18, 2010
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Tell George Lamb that Bailey says hello!
Jan. 18, 2010
#45inMd
Men's 60
108 posts
birdie is right teams earned the right to play in the TOC. I will be there Wed. to Sun for all the activity.

db14, Not saying you or your team will do this but some might find 1 or 2 better players to go and tell 1 or 2 original players not to go. But that is SSUSA staff job to control.
Jan. 18, 2010
db14
91 posts
To..#45inMd. Just to clarify your second sentence. We are ABSOLUTELY NOT doing or have done what you have alluded to nor would we. We are a straight up, follow the rules team.
Jan. 18, 2010
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
i am one of the players not going do to knee surgery i sure would love it but saving it for the up coming season wish my team all the luck in the world!
Monta Litle
left fielder
Jan. 19, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Wise Guy,

When you stated " having the TOC in Feb. only makes the situation worse", has been my point all along. My point was never to go on here and accuse teams and players of cheating or violating the rules. If in any way what I said came across like that, then I apologize. But, what I was saying is that in order for players who require medical attention, and allow them time to heal so that they can play the following year, or, to allow players who may move on due to whatever reason, it would be the right thing to do for SSUSA, to allow these members of championship teams, who worked and played hard in order for their team to qualify for this prestigous tournament, and deserve the right to play in the TOC, to play in the same year that they won the qualifier. This IMO would be the best way to eliminate any of the roster problems that seem to come up playing the TOC in the year after teams qualify for it. Just think about the BCS National Championship being played the year following the season, and some of the players can't play in it because they were drafted into the NFL, or have graduated and moved on. Would it then be considered a Chapionship. This tournament (the TOC) crowns the Champion of ALL Champions,for that year, and needs to be done correctly!
Jan. 19, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
diehard, you are quite correct and the current setup of this tournament is quite wrong.

To further your analogy it would be like moving the BCS Championship to the next year and allowing the teams to use that year's incoming freshmen.

Just very wrong.
Jan. 19, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Dirty, I agree with you 100%..Maybe SSUSA in the future will give this some serious consideration, and right this wrong!
Jan. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time"

As much as I may agree or disagree, it
makes me happy I am only a player and not SSUSA Management or staff.
Jan. 19, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
John, Saying you are "only a player" is like saying someone is only a teacher. Without players we wouldn't need associations, management or staff. Regards, Mel
Jan. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Mel
You are right, however in the overall scheme, one player doesnt mean a whole lot.
I know what you are saying, put a bunch of us old guys together and we ARE SSUSA. Problem is getting us together and then to agree.


Jan. 19, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
E4-6, on the one, even two player difference, I agree but others feel differently who have final say.
Last sentence is correct also.
Jan. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
taits
You are right, most likely its because, they have the final say.
How many times has someone/anyone sent an email or asked a question of Staff on one of the treads without a response? It seems in those cases the one doesnt mean much at all.
Jan. 19, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
John,
What can we do as individuals and teams to be sure our voices are heard with regard to what we want or don't want? What actions might be available to all of us when we are ignored? Guess I'm being naive and idealistic when I think that we should have some sort of control.
Jan. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Mel,
Our strength is in our numbers. As bad as I dislike admitting it Einstein has a good idea with the Players Association.
By the players for the players.

Joe,
Dont let it go to your head. =)
Jan. 19, 2010
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Mel,

The only three ways I know of getting heard are 1. Get enough teams to agree and boycott what ever association you don't like (good luck on that). 2. get 10,000 ball players to put in 1,000 to 5,000 each and start your own national organization(boy would that be fun)lol. 3. get enough money together to buy an existing organization and make your own rules.

Outside of the above they make the rules that we continue to play by and I for one am ready to get started.

Play Ball!!!! :)
Jan. 19, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Butch,
Of course, you're right. We can't seem to reach total agreement anywhere. I'm ready, too! Wee you at the TOC in a few weeks. Mel
Jan. 19, 2010
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
I'll be there let me know when and where you play and I'll come and watch if possible. Butch
Jan. 19, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Putting our points of view out there for all to see, and then having the pros and cons of those issues discussed, is called the democratic process. And I believe we are being heard right here on this forum by SSUSA. And whether you agree or disagree with any of the posts to me is secondary. The most important part of this process is the fact that you, as a senior softball player, cared enough to come on this or any other website to see what is being said or done about the game we all play and love.
Jan. 19, 2010
WiseGuy
3 posts
diehard,

I agree with your comments. I also agree that SSUSA staff are doing the best job they can. After all, if they are in it for he money, as some often allege, then it would be to their benefit to keep as many of us as happy as possible. It's a tough job. No matter what SSUSA does, somebody is going to be "pissed off"...seems they can't win.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the job they are doing and the fact that they provide an opportunity for us "old men" to play the game we love. Hey SSUSA...even though we complain (and I am one of the biggest complainers) I say, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
Jan. 19, 2010
db14
91 posts
HEY GUYS.....TIME OUT!!! The initial intent of this thread was a simple "looking for players for the TOC" If you wish to hijack a thread to discuss tournament dates, player's associations, rules, world hunger, who shot Kennedy PLEASE start your own thread. I appreciate your passion but we have gotten off the topic.
Jan. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Threads have a way of naturally evolving, yours took several turns.

And there were TWO shooters. Oswald in the Depository and another on the grassy knoll.
Jan. 20, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
db14, I hope that you find your two guys for the TOC. Sorry If we got off track. Hope to see you at the TOC. Thanks Harry#20 NV Force
Jan. 20, 2010
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
Doug, Ditto what birdie says. Looking
forward to seeing you guys in Fla.
Too bad Monta can't make it,hope Chuck
and Dennis are coming. Maybe we'll play a classic like that Saturday night in Vegas.
Birdie, what a field for the 55 Gold!
Have played against half of those teams, all class and great competitors. Looking forward to meeting you and your team. Good luck and safe passage.
John Sadler
Jan. 20, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
db14, I also would like to apologize. I agree with Harry and John in wishing you good luck. This is a great tournament, and like all of us you won the right to be here. Good Luck finding your guys!

Greg #8
HSB 55"s
Jan. 21, 2010
WOW
197 posts
Just my thoughts
1. Having the TOC at this time is like having the Super Bowl in April.

2. Allowing teams to pick up players doesn't keep the playing field level. When a mgr. is allowed the option of changing %30-%40 of his players, what do you think might happen.

3. Teams should take enough players to qualifiers anticipating that not all of them will be able to go to a TOC but....

4. When putting a team together make sure you have at least 13-14 players that are committed to go a TOC.

5. There will NEVER be a true TOC allowing any team to add players.

6. Like any good businessman, SSUSA wants the most teams possible. Larger numbers mean bigger profits.

7. For those of you going, have a great time and if you finish 2nd., enjoy that 50 cent painters cap.

Jan. 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Careful WOW, The World Series use to be in Oct and The Super Bowl was always in Jan.. Now in Nov & Feb respectively.
In 2009 there were 18 TOC qualifiers. This year 2010 there are 20 qualifiers.
Like all good businessmen, as business falls off they need to find more, somewhere.
Home Depot has hats for .29 =)
Jan. 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
But regardless of when the Super Bowl and World Series are played you cannot use players who were not part of your organization when you "qualified". The Jets won't be able to say that Sanchez is hurt and they are bringing Manning to play for them.

In this you apparently can.
Jan. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
WoW
Its for the ring you wanted but 'traded' for the hat.
You'll get another shot.
Jan. 21, 2010
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
db14,sorry, but I have to ask these experts. Is it OK to replace injured players? Believe or not, SSUSA challenges
every roster change. We lost two players to knees and one who has played with us for the last two years,but didn't play in that qualifier. What do you do? Not go?
Forget that! We petitioned for two players from the same level. We're not
adding Major+ guys. I'm still trying to figure out the problem with what time of year this special tourney should be played? Who cares. Are you going? Doug, I hope you get your guys.
John
Jan. 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Again, if Sanchez hurts his knee do the Jets get to pick up Manning?

I know the analogy is not exact, but the concept is exactly the same. Dance with who brung you.
Jan. 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Gary, I agree with you to a degree, but look at it like this. We are older and we break easier then the kids do.
There are just times when guys for whatever reason cant make that kind of trip. It happens.

Jan. 22, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I do understand that, but to allow pick ups ruins the integrity of this tournament as a true Tournament of Champions when teams can pick up guys who were not part of the original championship.

And, as hard as some might try, really how do you verify that a teams needs guys because of injuries and other "legitimate" reasons and not just because they want to strengthen their roster? Truly you cannot.

In this type of a tourney, if you want to keep the meaning it was meant to have, you just cannot allow pickups. Well, not unless you really just want to make sure teams can show up and spend their money.
Jan. 22, 2010
db14
91 posts
Hi John (OTE24), db14 (Dennis first baseman) here. No i will not be attending. There are five starters who for a multitude of VALID & LEGITIMATE reasons cannot go. It continues to amaze me how many self proclaimed experts continue to pontificate. I started this thread SIMPLY to search for an extra player or two, who met ALL SSUSA additional player requirements and the same old individuals who are constantly on every thread chirp in with irrelevant spew taking the thread in their own direction. It is not worth it to address each of their concerns, they may wish to start their own thread. John hope to see you in 2010 as you have always been a class guy and represent your team admirably.
Jan. 22, 2010
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
Dennis, Thanks. I've met some great guys since finding Senior ball. The wife and I enjoy the sport,the competition and the comaraderie. Most of all,the fun. They're going to miss you in Florida,all the pressure is on Chuck. Good luck this year,this is my last tourney with OTE. I've gone to 60s
with Double Edge. See you on the fields. John
Jan. 22, 2010
WOW
197 posts
db14. Not to rain on your parade, but maybe a larger # of players should have been on your original roster. If all you needed was 1 or 2 add-ons, it would appear you didn't have enough in the 1st. place!
Jan. 23, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
John,

You should have gone to 60's many years ago! LOL!

Andy
Jan. 23, 2010
db14
91 posts
To: WOW whomever you are. I strongly suggest you READ, UNDERSTAND and COMPREHEND the rules for adding players. We initially DID have a sufficient number of players on the qualifying roster. As stated previously we lost 5 now 6 starters and are simply trying to field a team.
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