http://www.mikensports.com/

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 1 member: Jt1152005; 30 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Tournament in Concord

Posted Discussion
April 26, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tournament in Concord
We had as much of a blast as you can have
going 0-6 as a team can get in NorCal
this weekend.
A very competitive tournament as per usual against the best teams in Northern California.
The fields were great, the background
was idyllic and the camaraderie
was exceptional.
We called it the mushball tournament
because the director whom I talked
with and respect only had 40 core balls
for us to use which is in violation
of the NCSSA contract for accepting
one of our tournaments.
I was told it would never happen again
by the TD and it relegated game play
to mush ball which no one really enjoyed.
Even Tim Mallet didn't hit the ball out in our game.
Congratulations to the Longhorns for making the adjustments that had to be made to win under such conditions.
Yet, it was a great example of what will happen to our game and the great exit that will occur by seniors
if we ever move to lesser equipment.
Lastly, an interesting point.
The TD, to his credit said we could play with 44x375 balls if both teams agreed and supplied the balls.
I think that was more than a fair and reasonable adjustment by him
under the conditions.
So, if that ever happens again
and I hope it never does
I bought a dozen new 44x375 ASA balls,
to keep in my bag,
nothing to right home about
but way better than "mush central"
so we can have and play our game.
It should not be left up to any team
to decide NOT to use the spec balls
that NCSSA mandates regardless of how the tournament was begun.
Once the legal balls are introduced
they should be accepted and game on.
April 26, 2010
dj
32 posts
Joe: the ball we used we use in antioch was the worst ball I have ever seen, we played in the 60 division with some good teams and good hitters,the best ball I saw hit on Sunday in the heat was about 150' game scores were all under 11. Good balls are a must.I would not play if we ever go to a ball like this. Hey did you break John's window?
dj
April 26, 2010
Longhorns
39 posts
Joe thats the second weekend in a row i used those 40 core balls. I played with the kids in Oakdale it was hard to hit them out of a 275 park in the afternoon. Those balls make a 800 hitter a 600 hitter or less real fast lol. You no an i no with the 5man we use the 40 core ball is to our benifit ,but doesnt mean i like playing with it. Personally i hope i never play another game with a 40 core ball. I no you fell the same way. On the good side Joe thanks for the Congrats an how about your first basement an big Ronnie hitting out of a 315 fence with those balls. What a acomplishment. See you in 2 weeks in Pleasanton.
April 26, 2010
udaplaya
91 posts
Joe,

I applaud you for taking the high road on this one. All of us that participated were well aware that there were a lot of shenanigans going on in Antioch this weekend and hopefully NCSSA takes steps to make sure such situations are not replicated in the future. I will give the TD the benefit of the doubt on the balls initially, but once he was notified of his mistake, he had ample opportunity to rectify the situation (i.e., go buy balls that met NCSSA minimum standards). I will not give the benefit of the doubt to the few teams that took advantage of the situation by not doing the right thing. To put this in perspective for those that weren't there, I watched two of the best 50 Major Plus teams in the country slogged through a seven inning, 6 - 4 game.
April 26, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
If the NCSSA rules were broken why didnt teams and players walk away and refuse to play?
I'm sure most didnt like playing with a sock but they still played.
It also sounds like the guys who should be hitting them out did. 315' with a sock in the heat? Thats a shot.
Sounds to me like the majority still had fun.
April 26, 2010
udaplaya
91 posts
E4/E6

Believe me, that was discussed. But, keep in mind, numerous players had driven a few hours to play, so once there on Saturday, they figured to finish it out. Joe's plan for Sunday was a great solution, so everyone trudged back on Sunday, only to be told by the TD (the same TD that allowed teams to pull balls out of their own bags to finish Saturday's play) that a team could veto Joe's efforts by refusing to use the balls he supplied and stick with the 40 cor ball. A few teams used this out, with one team going so far to use 40 cors against one team and 44 cors agasint another. Lesson learned, word at the park was Antioch will be scratched off of teams future schedules.
April 26, 2010
udaplaya
91 posts
Good news, the following comments is now posted on the NCSSA website:

The critiques have been coming in hot and heavy about the balls last weekend in Concord/Antioch. You can certainly add your own but the tournament director has sent the following:

Problem will be fixed and will never happen again. I apologize.

Good for the TD, i hope teams will give the TD a second chance.

April 26, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John,
you're distance from us in more ways than one demonstrates your ability
to miss the point and try to spin it
for your own reasons.
The ball was below spec and unacceptable
and should not and will NEVER be played with by my team again and you can quote me.
However, you'll have to forgive me
for being concerned about whatever effect it might have on the innocent
and Norcal as an organization
but I chose not to do anything without deep consideration that might damage,
hurt or destroy anything or anyone.
We are trying to work together after all aren't we and I've already received
apologies from the NCSSA and the TD.

Kurt, I think the world of you and
the Longhorn guys, all of whom I've played with and against but your decision to play with below spec balls
when we had the opportunity to rectify the situation was incorrect
and didn't show the character I know
you possess as a man and a team.
You guys can beat anyone fairly, straight up,
mano a mano and it didn't look good to a lot of us both on and off the field.
I've petitioned NCSSA to rule that if that ever happens again
that any team can introduce spec balls
without the permission of the TD
or the other team and the games
will be played within NCSSA regulations
or we will stop playing
and demand our money back
for the tournament.

April 26, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe theres really no distance between us, we want whats best for senior softball with our individual opinions. We just have different opinions.

0 and 6? =)
April 26, 2010
Longhorns
39 posts
Joe i did what the Team wanted doesnt mean i like it. I like to hit 44 core balls just like you do. This will not happen again so lets move on an forget this we have alot of softball to play. See you in 2 weeks my friend. Joe we still love ya.
April 26, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Here again you are talking in extremes. 6-4 in a major plus game because of the ball? That's not what I want to see either. As I have said in the past-getting the ball right has always seemed harder than toning down the bats a couple notches. The 44/375 works well with my Orange Crush. If I hit it, it goes 340-350--not 400 plus. You don't think there would still be a lot of scoring and home runs with a level of bat near the Crush. I was watching the difference in practice this weekend and it is about 30-50 feet between the Crush and the U2. Plus-you have to hit it near the sweet spot, not anywhere on the barrel. The guys that hit it, will still get 'em. Einstein-you are right about the Freaks being very close to the U2's. I have had a couple that I used instead of the U2 because they got hotter. To compete with the best, you have to compete with equipment, too. I still say a couple notches cooler, forget about the screens(which I have played with and do not like), and play ball.
April 26, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Mark.
Thanks and terrific points.
You don't like screens.
Cool.

Kurt, my respect and affection for you,
Bobby, Rock, Dave, Joe and the guys will not change.
You're the best.
See you in Pleasanton.
I've got a call into Timmy to make sure we have decent balls to hit there, too.
April 26, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John,
Any team can go flat
especially while it's early and still defining itself.
It's just a tribute that we have the most of the best teams in the country
right here in our own backyard
and the true parity that NCSSA builds
into its rules with unlimited HRs
with equalizer at 1, 5 run innings
and good 44x375 balls.

April 26, 2010
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
To a team it was heard over and over again echo'd by numerous players they would never play Concord again.

Hard to imagine there could be a ball worse than the ones that were used. Concord has been having trouble attracting teams to begin with. Now - once teams give it another shot this happens.

Probably the death knell for that venue.
April 27, 2010
Mark 44
Men's 60
56 posts
I, as a manager will never bring another team to Concord. I have managed teams for many years & we quit playing in Concord because of the same problem, TERRIBLE BALLS. They have used better balls in the last few years, to attract teams back to Concord & then BAM, Here we go again. A previous post asked why we didn't just walk away & refuse to play. We all look forward to playing tournaments & most of us live quite a distance from the park. To suggest that we show up & not play is silly. The only greater disapointment in my aged years, is when a tournament gets rained out. We came, We played & We shall never return to Concord/Antioch. Mark McDaniel, Manager of J CHubb Ins Softball Club.
April 27, 2010
dj
32 posts
Mark well said, people stopped comming because there is only one field with a fence and the fields are back to back, and the ball was bad, I think they lost a few teams because of the balls this weekend,
dj
April 27, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Mark, that was my point, even though the ball was a sock, no one quit and walked away. It has been said over and over "if a lively bat/ball combo isnt used players wont play". Here was the perfect chance to make a statement and players decided to suck it up and play. Why? Because we enjoy our team mates and playing softball. We grouse we grumble but still play.


April 27, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bravo, Mark.
I think the guantlet has been laid down
now and NCSSA and TD's need to get it solidly together from this point forward
that we WILL play with good/spec balls
for NCSSA, 44x375 minimum
and if not they'll officially
allow any team
to enter spec balls at ANY TIME
to insure the investment and experience
of playing senior ball.
This has happened for the LAST time
for lots of us.
Thanks Mark for standing up.
April 27, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John, you missed the point, again, completely.
We stayed at the park out of character to do the right thing for teammates,
opponents, loved ones and our Association.
Not because it was OK.
It WASN'T OK
and if you can't see that's the way
that most of us feel and back off
on your errant one-note approach
to solving/killing our game
than something is blinding you.
This is an awareness/IQ test for you,
John.
You're an outsider to our association
at best and you need to walk a mile in
our moccasins before you might
know anything about us.
April 27, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
As always there are two sides to every fence Joe.
This isnt an association issue Joe, it was a bad decision made by the TD.
You as players made the decision, and a correct one, to play with what was brought.
Calling me an outsider is about as arrogant as it can get. Isnt NCSSA open to ALL players and ALL teams regardless of where they come from? Or is it the closed association of NCJOE?
I expected more from you.


April 27, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're slick, E but not slick enough
to back peddle and blame me and us
at NCSSA for your aggogant ignorance and misconception.
We, the entire NCSSA association
mandate in our rules that no TD
will field less than senior bats
and good 44 x 375 balls.
That's more than a majority opinion,
John, that's who we are and not subject
to your distant, errant and self serving remarks.
You should quit before you bury yourself
in a pile of your own stuff.
April 27, 2010
green rocket
51 posts
Joe, 2 weeks ago in Vacaville, Seward's tournament used the Baden .44/375 Fire. As an umpire, I was very impressed on how well the ball held up and how it carried if you hit it good.

Some of the ballplayers said they used that ball in their league play and was happy with it. I know you've socked this ball sometime in the past.

Hopefully we will see this ball again in future tounaments.
April 27, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
well E4/E6 it looks like they went,they stayed and they played,game,set,match.they were all prolly mad they had to play some defense with this ball and not just go for the hr.
April 27, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe placing blame is a vacant decision by people who are looking for a scapegoat and serves no purpose.
Let me know when you finish building the wall, I'm sure it will be spectacular.
Until then I am entitled to my opinion, if you dont like it or think its wrong say so but dont try to make it look like yours is the only one that matters or like I am the bad guy.
I dont need to play a tournament to be able to read about it.
I may be burying myself in a pile of my own stuff, but when I look down I can still see you looking up.
April 27, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You've exposed your ignorant,
self seeking little ass, John.
There's nothin' more to say.
April 27, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Re; the rules NCSSA uses are SSUSA rules, unless they have entered a modifier for certain parts of it.
For the balls they have not done so (amendment) and were to use a 44\375 ball.
Seems they have a few habits for breaking their own rules but nothing is ever done, though said would be.

On the no play. I think rarely is it said which balls will be used just like you don't know who will be there until its only a week before the game and too late to pull our realistically. And since you are there, why not play.
So you go & you then complain later. Just like here.
They too run it as a business, but more reasonable cost for those attending which are usually state located teams with a half dozen or so exceptions.

April 27, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Seems I've exposed some insecurity and touched a nerve as well.
I can live with my ignorance Joe, can you live without a Lively Bat/Ball combo?
And you evidently havent seen my ass.

Scott I agree with you and I agreed with whats his name.
The ball was a sock and no one walked away because of it. Simple.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners