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Discussion: 60 Major Division

Posted Discussion
June 13, 2010
Jyoji
1 posts
60 Major Division
Master Collision won Rockin' Reno in the 60 Major Division, but that's partly because three of the KC Kids had to fly home before the "if" game. Regardless, KC Kids and Master Collision are obviously Major Plus teams ... not Major. It's ridiculous these two teams can compete in the Major division. Wake up, SSUSA! Many Kansas City and Denver teams have been playing senior softball successfully for more than a decade, and these cities are plenty strong to have at least one team in Major Plus. The K.C. Kids and Master Collision are the best teams in those two cities, so what are they doing playing in Major!! Get a clue, SSUSA, and get these two teams up in the Major Plus division where they so obviously belong. Both of these teams have been Major Plus in the past, and they were clearly FAR STRONGER than the other teams in the Major division. FYI, my team came in fourth (not third). The third place team was strong, but not equal to Kansas City and Denver, which were obviously unfairly playing down. SSUSA, if you didn't notice this, you aren't doing your job. And if you did, I give you kudos.
June 13, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Jyoji,

They may not have noticed, but they were definitely told by most of the teams in the division, what you stated above, including teams that were watching from other divisions. I ran into players that I do not even know at the Hotel, that saw my team shirt and watched some of the 60 Major games, and said you cannot compete against teams like that. They stated it was just grossly uneven.

Jawood,

BTW, combining Major Plus and Major teams will never ever work or happen. The above is just an example of why. If the divisions were combined, teams would just play elsewhere(there are at least 5 other organizations just in California for senior tournaments), and revenues would go down, so again, it will just never ever happen. I admit SSUSA is the best run because of Dave and Fran, but SSUSA is not the only game in town. The only type of team that could play Major Plus and compete, would be a team like the NorCal Merchants for example, which has top notch Major players and supposedly some Major Plus players. I could be wrong on the Major Plus players, but this is what I was told from some players at Reno. They are a very strong team. Sorry to use you guys as an example NorCal. Don't worry, Terry will not move you guys up. At least not till you win the triple crown. LOL! Good luck to you guys! All of the players from all of the teams being discussed are excellent ballplayers and very nice guys. I enjoyed talking and meeting with some of them.

Just My Opinions,

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major
June 13, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Duke, I'm in the 50's so it may be a lot different in your division, however, there is not much of a difference between Major-plus & Major in ours. The division HAS been combined before, so it has happened.

We are a Major team and would play a Major-plus team anytime ... take the challenge, it's only a game!

How do you treat a Major-plus team that wants to play in a tournament but there is no one in their division because the lack of teams? (which happens quite often). Are you suppose to tell them they can't participate? All teams need to be provided a place to play by the association. Don't tell them they can't play because they are too good.
June 13, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Jawood,

When I said it will not happen ever, I meant from the standpoint, that it would not be combined on a permanent basis. In other words, there is always going to be a Major Plus, Major, AAA, and AA division. I know some times 2 divisions are combined, but usually with 5 runs or an additional defensive player as an equalizer. Poor job trying to twist what I was trying to convey, when I think you knew what I was saying.
I know you want the number of divisions to be 3 and not 4, so do not act like you were oblivious to what I was expressing.

If a team is the only team in their division, then I would let them play as an exhibition team only or give them their money back. No reason to spoil it for the other teams.

Maybe your team should be in the Major Plus division now. When you get to the 60 division, you will see a distinct difference between divisions, as opposed to the 50's and 55's. It was an eye opener for me, and I am happy that I only sub for a 55 team now. A lot of us start to slow down and/or lose some of their fielding skills. You will find out faster than you want to know. Stop by and say high some time and have a good season.

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major
June 13, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
I am not trying to twist anything you have to say, just stating my (our) thoughts at this time. Maybe things will change when we move up, who knows. I have stated in other posts that I have yet to hear anyone (in person) who is against combining Major and Major-plus in the 50 division. I am not "oblivious" to your comments at all, just like to relay what players are saying.
June 14, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Jawood, great attitude! That is how all competitors should be.

I guess a lot of guys were happy just playing JV in high school.
June 14, 2010
JLD930
Men's 55
67 posts
Yes we absolutely murdered teams in Reno. The first game of double elimination we beat Runner Blue by one run. We have played them 4 times this year and three of those games were decided by 2 runs or less. I guess they should be M+ also. Nor Cal also is every bit as strong as we are and the NM Dukes beat us in Mesquite. Most games in our first two tournaments have been very close (check the scores in Mesquite and Reno). There were at least 5 teams in Reno that could have won 60 Major. Dav Dowell acknowledged that when he handed out the awards.

Jyoji and Andy, both of your teams can play with us and you know it; we just happened to beat you that weekend. If you guys want sure wins you should drop down to AA. We were moved up a year ago and got murdered. If we do get moved up so be it. We will play hard and try to compete (without whining about it)


The fact that KC and MC are the best 60 teams in Denver and KC means absolutely nothing.

Jack #30 Master Collision
June 14, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Jack,

You comments are well taken. The main thing that bothers me at times is when a team knows its ability, and I can over hear from their dugout them saying to keep the ball in the park till they catch up, because we do not want to win by too much. I am old but I am not deaf. It does make me play harder and want to win more, but still pisses me off to hear that. To go on record, I did not hear that from your team. It was telepathic, just kidding.

As far as a sure win and going to AA, our team is not about that. We all get 5 games guaranteed, we just want good and fair competition. We played a 60 AA team this year, and I see we will have to play a 55 AA in our next tournament. I really do not find this to be good and fair competition for either team. The only fun part is that it is against some long time friends. Otherwise, I would not want to play. In addion, we are a newly formed 60 team. Some of the guys wanted to start at AAA, but I and others said no, because we felt that we would easily defeat most of those teams.

The comment about KC and MC in Denver and KC meaning absolutely nothing, I agree with you.

Looking forward to playing your team in Phoenix, so be ready. LOL! Have a good season! Thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments. I am done with topic. I made all of the points that I care to make here.

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major
June 14, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
I have never understood the main criteria for classification is run differential! Almost all games are close because of the 5 run rule (one of the better rules in senior softball, I believe). The only thing that should matter are wins and losses. Because these games are always close, teams are not going to win all the time. If they do, then they should be moved up but only after several tournaments. It's the same thing with moving down, if teams never win with all the "equalizer" rules we have, then they can be moved down, but not after one or two tournaments.

It looks like to me you guys have a nice competitive division in the 60 Major!
June 14, 2010
JLD930
Men's 55
67 posts
Andy, We have always enjoyed playing against your teams (Double Edge and Double Nickel). You guys are always competitive and they are always fun, competetive games. I know that you guys have no interest in playing down, that was a cheap shot.
Our 55 major team last year was probably better than our 60 team and we got our butts kicked in Phoenix. Hopefully this year we do better.
I feel we do have a very competitive division and the year will prove that out.
Best of luck to you the rest of the season. Stay healthy.
June 14, 2010
E-6
1 posts
I don't understand some of jyoji comments. I am #14 on the KC Kids team, and yes we do have a good team, as does Master Collision. The fact that we had 3 players (I was one of them) that had a flight out at 5:30 and MC had their flight at 7 PM had NOTHING to do with them winning it. We played them 3 times and they won 2 of them, they are the Champs and we congratulate them.

We had a good tournemant, and yes we DO have guys that if they get it in the air can take it out...I THOUGHT thats why they limited the HR to 5 and made them outs instead of walks in the 60 Major., because people at that level DO hit Home Runs.

We have NEVER been classified as Major+ and routinely get handled by teams that are triple AAA at home. We are the ONLY 60 Major team in our Region and of course we will be looking for good players as we have no competition for these players. We also have a VERY YOUNG (as is MC) 60 team with most of our players being 59 and have come from good 55 teams (but NOT Major Plus teams). That was (1) ONE tournament, lets see how we fare down the road before the "They are to good to be in our divison" starts."

We have heard that same tune in EVERY division when someone gets beat a couple of times (and I myself have been heard to say it).

We (KC Kids) went to Minn this last weekend and played some of the same teams we handled pretty good in Reno...We won 1 game out of 5... Should we demand that the Minn Masters team be moved up? I don't think so, as they just played better than we did that weekend. THAT is why we play the game and not just mail in the results. In Major you are SUPPOSED to be good enough to compete and if you feel your not, then petition to be moved down and listen to the AAA guys start complaining YOUR to good to be in AAA.

NOBODY wants to play Major plus and be handed a Trophy for showing up and playing 'exhibition' games. And we are not a major plus team...we just happen to have a bunch of good players turning 60 at the same time from different teams and it came together at one tournament and fell apart at another. Check and see if we have IMPORTED any players from long distances. I think at the end of the year, you will find us with some wins and some quick exits as it should be if you have a good team.

Thank you for listening.

June 14, 2010
JLD930
Men's 55
67 posts
E-6. Some great points. Sorry you and a couple of your teammates had to leave early. Congrats on a great tournament. We always enjoy playing you guys always have very competetive games. That is why we play this game.

I thought Reno was the best and most well balanced tournament we have played in quite some time. A lot of very close games. We have a lot of respect for all of the teams that participated.
June 14, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
E-6, great points! I was a little nervous about being moved up after Reno because of run differential, but out of 6 wins, there was only one that was really one sided and ERO is much better than they played against us (23-8). We won another by 10, but scored 14 in the 7th. We also won 3 by one run, and then beat R&R-a very tired team by 12, after losing by 2 to them. Run differential in wins was 30 in 6 games. But every game was tough.I am confident that Dave and the staff look at that very closely. Next time out-playing the same teams we could go 2-7 easily. That's how even it was. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt on moving teams. It is tougher than you think.
June 15, 2010
berger
Men's 60
41 posts
Sorry to burst your bubble Jyoji, but the KC Kids have never been Major +. I’m the originator of the team, and if you look at SSUSA’s Ratings page, you will see that we’ve only been in existence since March of 2008……and we've been a Major team since conception.

I guess I also need to apologize to you (based on your disgust), that I continue to attempt to improve the team. We were a 55+ team until this year – i.e., this is our first year playing 60+. Yes, it happens, we’re getting older also.

And yes, I did pick up some players from last year’s KC Bombers team -- for this year’s KC Kids 60+ team. The Bombers began playing, last year, as a 60 Major+ team, but did so poorly that by mid-year they were allowed to drop back down to Major……and as a result of their continual down-slide throughout the remainder of the year, were no longer in existence by the end of 2009. So, I can only imagine that your contention of labeling us as a Major+ is based on a few of those players being with us……I don’t know. It does make me wonder, however, that if you, or someone on your team, recognized those few players being on our team, does that mean that you, or one of your guys, may have played on a Major+ team against them last year…????
June 15, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
OOps! Can't add-old age. Our run difference was 40 in 6 games, not 30.
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