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Discussion: rules question

Posted Discussion
July 6, 2010
red57bird
1 posts
rules question
I could not find the answer to this in the rule book any help would be welcome. A batter is walked, before he reaches 1st base a courtesy runner steps on 1st base before the batter has reached first, before the runner get to first he steps off the base to allow the batter to touch first base then a third player get on first to be the courtesy runner. Questions is there any penality for the courtesy runner that took his on first before the batter reached first? And if there is no rule against touching first before the batter touches first who is the correct courtesy runner the one that touched first before the batter or the one that waited until the batter had reached first and then replaced him? Hope this is understandable, and thanks for any help.
July 6, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
I don't know if there is a rule for this, who cares who touched the bag first? But if there isn't a rule, I'm sure they will make one up.
July 7, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4357 posts
Read rules 8.2 (3) ... Rule 8.4 (3) and 8.4 (5).
Those should cover it.
July 7, 2010
Robo2
222 posts
who cares is right. Come on, does a team need an out that badly. I guess the team can't beat the other team straight up. I experienced a similar issue with a team once. Bases loaded and one out and 4 runs already in. A home run was hit but the batter did not touch first. The rule was the batter was out but the run scored. Five run inning complete. So all it did was allow the coach to get an out without deserving it.
July 7, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
We've had batter/runners called out for leaving the base before the pinch (courtesy) runner got to the base, and for occupying first base before the walked batter got there. Too many "rules" allow for umpire's judgement and, being human, it's not always the same. Let's not over legislate our game.
July 7, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Robo, winning "straight up" is not very important in senior softball. It is why teams are given runs, or extra defensive players.
July 7, 2010
Stretch14
Men's 50
185 posts
I think winning straight up is very important. I like beating good teams by more than the 5 runs we get.
July 7, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
You might very well feel that way, but I would bet your team still accepts the wins by less than 5.
July 7, 2010
stick8
1282 posts
Red57bird did that really happen? That's unbelievable. In the situation you describe the ruling as i understand it would be an out. The original courtesy runner wouldn't be able to run for anyone else again that inning. As In understand it the batter who was issued the walk must touch first base before a courtesy runner can be used.
July 7, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
Stick8, our first 'sorta' disagreement. I know the rule, but I would hesitate to call it. Again, we are not pros and, unlike baseball where the rule comes from, some rules should be examined for relevance to the game we play. We are all slow and getting slower-what harm to a guy getting a walk and a runner going to the base for him without the formalities.Might speed up the game-just a bit. Just a thought.
July 8, 2010
terryspears
Men's 55
38 posts
I don't understand how the last sentence in this rule applies. If the illegal courtesy runner is out, then isn't the original runner out, and not eligible to return to the base?

63 PLAYING RULES
8.4 (5) COURTESY RUNNER OFFICIALLY IN THE GAME
A courtesy runner is in the game when he/she touches the base. If
a courtesy runner is determined illegal, he/she will be called out
upon touching the base and no other courtesy runner is allowed.
The original runner my not now return as the runner.
July 8, 2010
stick8
1282 posts
Webbie, if rules were such as to permit what your saying that opens the door for allowing a runner to stand next to home plate and run to first base after the batter gets a base hit. As Clint Eastwood said in "Heartbreak Ridge", it's a cluster----.
If a player doesn't have it in them to walk or jog 65 ft after a base on balls then how are they going to be able to run 65 ft after hitting a ground ball?
July 8, 2010
stick8
1282 posts
Terryspears as I read it that rule would apply in the following scenarios:
1)that courtesy runner is not on the roster
2)that courtesy runner was previously ejected from the game
3)that courtesy runner had already ran for someone earlier in the inning
4)that courtesy runners turn to bat is up and he's on base.
July 8, 2010
Stretch14
Men's 50
185 posts
Dirty, a win is a win. I don't know any player out there would rather lose than win. If we get beat by a team, so what. Life goes on. Softball is just a part of life. It feels great that I can wake up in the morning, later on and play softball with my friends and not say anything negative about the game I love.
July 9, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Sort of. Though a win truly earned is much more rewarding than a win that was partially handed out.
July 9, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
Stick8
We have already played 2 tourneys that allowed a runner to run for a batter from the plate. I don't agree with that at all. Like I said, I do know the rule. It's nothing to argue about, for sure. Just one of those no harm things.
July 9, 2010
boston
299 posts
I hate that rule where a person can run from home plate. If you can't run from home plate to first time to pack it in and just coach.
July 9, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
boston, you are 1000% correct on that one. To do this in a rec or pickup game is one thing, but in a tournament is more unacceptable than I can describe.
July 9, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
This is allowed? A new leader in the most ridiculous rule catagory! And as we know there is many in senior softball.
July 9, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Absolutely, there is some stiff competition in that category.
July 9, 2010
stick8
1282 posts
Webbie I vaguely recall that as a kid but I can't believe anyone would allow adults to do that anywhere--even in a low level recreation weeknight league. If you can't run or even walk to first base stay home.
July 9, 2010
Stretch14
Men's 50
185 posts
Partially handed out by the MAJOR team when they play our AAA team. So you think we shouldn't get runs when we play a MAJOR team? Think again!
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