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Discussion: Do we need a rule to cover this?

Posted Discussion
Sept. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Do we need a rule to cover this?
I realize we have a tremendous number of rules, but this play has now happened to us 3 times in the last year.
Situation-runners on first and third and one out. Batter hits a flare down the right field line. Right fielder dives and obviously the ball is trapped. Obvious to everyone EXCEPT the home plate umpire, whose call it is. Our runner on first, though, sees the base umpire pointing EMPHATICALLY to the ground indicating the ball was trapped. He reverses and heads toward second, and makes it. Now the other team sees the home plate umpire indicating a catch and throws to first for the double play. After a conference, the home plate umpire overrules the base umpire and calls the double play. Then, even though the runner DID tag at third and scored after the 'catch', he also tried to disallow our run. We did get that one back, though.
I realize it is the home plate umpires call. However, when the base umpire indicated the ball is down, the runner advanced based on that. There is not time to think out there as a runner that maybe it isn't his call. You just head for the next base if you see an umpire indicate the ball is down.
My question, then, is "should a rule be written to prevent the double play from being called in this situation when a call on the field DURING the play is reversed?"
Guys, no debate needed on the actual catch, because it was a CLEAR trap.
Sept. 27, 2011
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Webbie, As it stands, the continuous double play would not allow the run to score. Unfortunately just a case of poor umpiring. Hope you were able to overcome it. Regards, Mel
Sept. 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Not another rule, Webbie ... Ya get some calls, and you don't get others ... The umpires need educating ... Move on.
Sept. 27, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
266 posts
It is not a continuous play, but an appeal play, the run would count if the runner crossed home before the appeal at first is made.
Sept. 27, 2011
Paco13
363 posts
Not sure why would the H plate umpire overuled the F umpire. It is not his call it is the F umpire call. As stated before the umps need to be educated when one or more umps are on the field. I have umpired on and off for over 20 years and I do not get involved unless I get asked for an appeals call by the other umpire. I make all the calls at home and third depending on the agreement with the other ump and of course the third line F or F calls. Otherwise why have more than one umpire. The H ump should have never make that call...No need for a rule here...educate, educate, educate and umps please read rule books more than once a year. It is a continous learning!!! My 2 cents.
Sept. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
lemons-it was ruled a catch finally so it was an appeal at first. The run does score. But, even after ruling the catch he almost didn't allow it because he said it was a force.(??) What a blown call!
19-3 times in a year-double play called each time. In lieu of educating, which apparently doesn't work here, looking for ideas. Thanks, guys.
Paco-it really is the home plate umps call, but he should have allowed himself to be overruled by an very emphatic base umpire and gotten it right.
Mel, it was the top of the seventh and we had a 4 run lead. We did hang on, barely. Thanks.
Sept. 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Sorry Webbie ... It just isn't life and death ... It's a game ... Enjoy it while you can.

Trap calls are very difficult calls to make ... Umpires do the best they can based on distance, angles, sunlight, shadows, line of vision, eyesight, etc ... Just appreciate the fact that someone is there attempting to keep order, and play on.
Sept. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
I do-just bringing it up because we end up on the short end of it every time! lol
Sept. 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
As the saying goes, it all evens out in the long run ... Hang in there!
Sept. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Great point, 19. Not saying you Webbie, but most whiners on here don't understand that umps tend "blow" as many calls in your favor as against.
Sept. 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
webbie,to me that is the most blown call of all,that causes the worst consequences.as a runner your damned if you do,and damned if you don't.......
Sept. 27, 2011
MaverickAH
59 posts
No, you don't need a rule to cover this. What's needed is proper umpire mechanics!

If a two man umpire crew has their thing together, they've already discussed what their roles are for this kind of situation.

Any time a base umpire recognizes & goes out to determine a difficult catch, it becomes his responsibility. Once a plate umpire sees his partner go out, he should assume his responsibilities. In other words, their roles are reversed.

As detailed, it sounds like bad mechanics by the plate ump. The base ump should've stuck to his guns on the call!
Sept. 27, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
298 posts
Mad Dog running now that must be site that is rarely seen!!!! DOH LOL
Sept. 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
mmm,didn't i see you getting CR from the plate.....DOH,LOL......
Sept. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
I bet mad dog occasionally has to call time out to get a CR from the commit line!! DOH,ROTFSAGLMAO
Sept. 28, 2011
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
Hi Webb, this one was funny. I was at 1st Base and it was clearly a trap.
When the right fielder threw the ball in I didnít field it because I thought maybe he was throwing it Home. The Pitcher fielded it and stepped on 1st,, Late, the runner was standing on the Bag.
Two blown calls on the same play, wish they had not given you the Run, would have made 3 blown calls,
might have been a record.
theBull
Sept. 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
ok mr webber,i'll have you know that i have served as a CR this year(and more than once),so there,you and all your knee braces...........DOH,LOL,ROTFSAGLMAO






MMM THE CR FROM THE COMMIT LINE DOES SOUND GOOD THO.......
Sept. 29, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Bull-I forgot you were playing first when this play happened. While they were arguing, Ricky (the guy who trapped it) came over and put his arm around my shoulder and we walked down the third baseline and I said 'Ricky, you trapped it, didn't you?' and he said 'well, my glove was turned up'. And I looked at him and said again 'Ricky, you trapped it, didn't you?' and he looked sheepish and said yes. Could have sure cost us, as it kept you guys within 5 for your open inning.
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