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Discussion: Faults of SPA

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Oct. 3, 2011
mc4softball
18 posts
Faults of SPA
Just got back from playing 60 AAA in Pensacola tournament. There were at least three teams that should have been playing in a Major bracket since some of the rosters involved Major players. After pool play one team was moved to 55 brackets and even then there was some controvesy. Second problem is having to give a 65 Major team 5 runs. THIS IS WRONG.
Oct. 3, 2011
GaCMan
85 posts
Boy you got that right!!!!! There does need to be something done. My team 55AAA had a 60 MAJOR???? not sure about this rating,but we had to give up 5 runs and were never even in the game with these guys. Nothing personal against them they were great guys to play but way over our head. Then on top of that after putting us out on Sat they left and went home not playing at all on Sun. If you were lucky enough to not have played them at all WOW what an ADVANTAGE. We won both of our pool games and our first bracket game. One other team that only played 1 pool because of a forfit won both of theirs also, but the drop down team got the #2 seed we got the 3rd seed. This happend in every age group but the 50s and guess who won them all majors I think. Only reason they didn't win ours was they left. I don't have a problem playing them as consolation but they should not be competing for the goods of a AAA tournament!!!!!
Oct. 3, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
yes there was alot of rules that need to be define a little better. I have all ready email the board and the problem we had will be worked on in dallas in Nov. It is a problem when new team rosters are involved with last year team rosters. but it will be addressed and hope it will changed for the best for all the players. but it is a ongoing problem when there is not enough teams to make a division for everyone to play.
Oct. 3, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
GaCMan
I know it was bad when a 55 team which is true AAA plays a Major team, untill the rule is changed and define better it going to happen. I have talked to Ridge and other and it will be define better so it will not happen again. But the rule states all new teams will be AAA untill they or rated or unless there rosters show they are a Major or above. Even untill a AA plays they have to start AAA. But new define rules will make sure this will not happen in Bracket games. I know it happen is other groups too. so maybe all will read this and make it better for senior ball.
Don Ward
Oct. 3, 2011
perly
88 posts
A lot of controversy at Pensacola. At least two of the Major teams that were moved to a lower age group and played against all AAA teams won their tournements. Both Major teams were given 5 runs which proved to be a BAD BAD decision. The SPA needs to clarify the rules. Every team wants to play and if there are no teams with the same age/rating something needs to be done to allow them to play.

As for as every team starting out AAA, that wasn't an issue in Pensacola. The 65 Major team (The Hitmen) and 60 Major Team (Crystal Pharmacy) are both clearly Major teams and not NEW teams. Crystal has a new name but are bascially the Wild Bunch with a few new Major/Major + players.

SPA rep in Pensacola made some judgement calls, maybe with Ridge's input or maybe w/o his input, but the 5 run gift to Major teams playing in a younger age group was definitely a disaster.

Oct. 3, 2011
Tater50
333 posts
Perly/GaCman: I agree with your statements & also see Don's view with what is on the present books.

I feel that since City Pharmacy 60 team had almost 99% players that had played major this year & the 65 Major team that were 99% major players they should have had a 3 of 5 series.
The 5 runs we gave to the 65 M Hitman cost us the game. They did beat us bad in the finals; B.G./Wazoo GREAT team!!! Although you stomped us, still like ya!!

JMO: I think a yearly player poll is needed; I know that I cannot take off to go to the SPA or another Assoc. meetings in the off season.

Tater50.
PS Not throwing stones at anyone; just like the others, this has got to be changed.

BTW: I have asked this before; HOW MANY PLAYERS SHOW UP FOR THE SENIOR SUMMIT?? Sorry for the yelling, but I got no answer last time.
Oct. 3, 2011
Big D from Tennessee
Men's 50
79 posts
Not a good Idea to bring the Major Teams to Exchange Park in Pensacola!

Major Teams at any age group have OUTGROWN "275-280" Foot fences at Exchange Park. It is harder for a Major Caliber Player to keep the Ball in the Park than it is for a AAA Player to Hit it out of the Park.

The results of this was witnessed in some of the 50 Major Teams games Guys trying to hit base hits " This makes it extremely Dangerous for Pitchers and Infielders!!!.

Senior Men 50 and above are not "Fat Beer Bellied Old Guys of the Past"

50 - 65yr old guys are now stronger and more fit than ever before - In some cases we are in better shape than 40 year old guys!!

So don't make rules that in-danger pitchers and in-fielders - unless you are a Pitcher or In-Fielder

My 2 cents

Big D
Oct. 4, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
When a 65 Major team plays a 60 AAA team there should be NO equalizer - the age difference IS the equalizer! Most certainly, giving the older team a 5-run spot is incorrect! Our team played as a 65 Major Plus team last year in Pensacola and played 2 very good 60 Major teams. We received no equalizer and got beat anyway. We also played a 70 Major (maybe Major Plus) with no equalizer for them. We did not go back this year since the tournament was so poorly run. We were told one thing by the TD and that got over-ruled when the SPA Executive Director showed up.
Oct. 4, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Big D
I will agree with you all the way Players today playing senior ball are in better shape any many have played open and high level softball in the young boys game. We take pride in the way we TRY to look and hit every chance we get to improve our game.
Pearl and Big John
Both of you hit the nail on the head. Our team Crytal Pharmacy knew going into this year it would be hard to find teams and tournaments to play in. The TD knew we were major and we tryed to put together a winning team to complete for National and world titles in the 60 majors like the columbus and Ga/Ala teams in AAA. It was bad the rules were not clear for all of us to play by. But if someone going to get 5 runs We are going to take them- then give them. but on a better note this will not happen again in SPA I have spoke to Ridge and the other Ex. borad and we will address the rule in Dallas in Nov. When Ridge found out what was happening he asked our team to bow out and let the AAA final only be between roster that were AAA. We understood and got a early start home.
on a final note I still enjoyed the fellowship of seeing all my friends and playing some good softball, 3 of out teammate were hurt and could not play and 2 other were not there for this weekend tourney.
Hope to see each one in Myrtle Beach where everyone will play in their divisions. there already alot of teams already signed up going if anyone wanted to know the teams call me and I get the list email to you.
till then hit them hard and get good spin
Don Ward
Oct. 4, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
290 posts
SPA continues to shoot itself in the foot.
Rules not followed and rules not defined and that leaves a very bad taste in the teams mouth.
Numerous teams said they wouldn't be back and won't go to future SPA tournaments.
NEVER NEVER NEVER should a AAA team have to give runs to a Major team. Point proven in that the teams receiving runs were the winners!!!!!!
Yes it is supposed to be new teams but everybody including SPA officials knew in advance who the MAJOR teams were and did not put them in the correct brackets.
NOT the TEAMS fault they played where they were put but should have been playing in their age group and not getting runs.


Also how does a player play on two teams in the same bracket??? After his first teams is eliminated he goes to another team in the same bracket and plays, come on SPA we pay good money and this isn't a back yard tourney where players switch teams every game. This was a Winter National Championship, NOT a back yard barbeque!!!!!!!

The Hitman
Oct. 4, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Jim
I agree that should have never happen in Pensacola. The 65 major Plus should have play even ball in the 60 AAA bracket games. As just like our 60 Major team should have played even in the 55 bracket. But the rule was not define clearly in the rule book. So they gave the 5 runs.
will it happen again NO not in SPA. There is at the present time a system of points that will be emailed to all tournament directors before the next SPA tournament so everyone will know the new rule> it will be in next year rule book so all the managers will see and know it also. The 5 runs only happens in pool play not bracket play but the rule never define it that way and when Ridge found out it was to late in one bracket play our team bowed out and let the 55 divison continue play with 55 aaa roster only. Was it fair for everyone NO. will it happen again NO not in SPA. Ridge will make sure of this. there is already a process in place as we speak and many phone call that has been made so this will never happen again.
On the player that played on two teams in the same division let SPA know who he was and the Teams that allow this we will take care of that, there is a rule and a penatly for that player and manager of that team
Don Ward
Oct. 4, 2011
birdie
Men's 60
671 posts
jah#4, If you get a chance could you e-mail with a list of the 60 Major teams that plan on being in Myrtle Beach. Thanks Harry # 20 NV Force
Oct. 4, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Harry will do I know we will be there will check on the rest Don
Oct. 4, 2011
birdie
Men's 60
671 posts
Don, It is a shame that you guys are not going to VA. Beach this weekend. Only three teams in the 60 Majors and one of those is Turn Two. They are listed as Major and not Major+. . Maybe the ISSA did away with the Major+ ratings and all the major+ teams are now Major. I am sure that I will find out pretty quickly on this board. Thanks Harry
Oct. 4, 2011
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
we looked at Va. beach but played in Pensacola instead many of our players live in lower Ga and ala.
I spoke to RB and he said he was not going to have a Major Plus program any more not enough teams SO I guess all the major teams will start playing those who drop down and still wants to play in the ISF and the ISSA worlds and their other tournaments. RB does a nice job running his tournament but there will be a couple of problems he will have to look at. We are having the same problem at SPA in tournament of Major Plus players droping down and playing Major and even AAA.
Hope to see you and Billy and the rest of the Force team soon
Don
Oct. 4, 2011
birdie
Men's 60
671 posts
Don, All this discussion on this board about combining Major and Major+,we will see how that works out. I can feel for the Major+ teams competing with the younger groups. I never minded playing the Plus teams with the equalizer rule but now we have to play them even up. All you can do is to tee it up and see what happens. I am looking forward to the challenge. Thanks Harry
Oct. 5, 2011
Tater50
333 posts
Don Ward: "unless there rosters show they are a Major or above".

Don: I only saw B.P in L/F & L.M. in RCF that did not play Major this year & they, like myself, played Major in the past.

I feel that everyone in the Park, including the TD could look at the roster or the people in person & see that the 60 & 65 teams were 99% Major.

I, like Jim the Hitman feels cheated. I like others worked extra days just to be able to get off of work to attend that tourney.

Big Change is needed & a Yearly Player Poll should be conducted to keep SPA & other assoc in the loop of what the players feel.


Tater50
Oct. 5, 2011
GaCMan
85 posts
What I don't understand is if the major team drops down to a AAA division to play they are playing for the trophy in the platnum division. They win and no one gets the tropy for the gold looks like to me the AAA team that finishes in 2nd place should get 1st place in the gold division????

Doesn't seem fair to me that a major team with 10 major players and 5yrs older, against a AAA team with no major players is equal.

Also the team lucky enough to not play the major team till the championship game has a huge advantage.

What happens when the major team leaves early after ruining the tourney for most of the teams in the AAA division the teams knocked out are just screwed ?

Don't mind playing them but feel like they should not be able to eliminate teams that are not in there division. 5yrs is not an equalizer for the difference between a AAA and a TRUE MAJOR team JMO.

If there are not enough teams for the Majors why not combine the Majors and the Major+ divisions???? There is no point in having different divisions and then playing teams down that are not EQUAL.


Why not do this let them play down and have the games played count as far as the Majors are concerned and they must win to get the Trophy, but not count against the AAA teams as far as the AAA teams are concerned in there division.

Just food for thought, a lot of thought needs to be put into this.
Oct. 5, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2586 posts
GaCMan, in the SSUSA tournament in Aiken we played the AAA teams but only the first place team won the TOC birth.

I agree that what happened in Pensacola wasn't fair to your the Columbus 55's.

I'm sure this will be a topic of discussion in Dallas at the SPA conference.
Oct. 5, 2011
perly
88 posts
While the SPA has some questionable calls in Pensacola and need to address these so it's not a recurring theme this year I'd like to say a couple good things about the SPA.

SPA seems to always play at a nice complex.

SPA always has two umpires and a scorekeeper/score board. Other associations don't provide this service, even at National Tournaments.

SPA hits the Baden Fire Ball. This ball is excellent in hot or cold weather. Other associations use balls that are horrible in hot weather.

SPA does a nice job on awards.

I think we need the Big 2 associations to compete with each other. If you think we only need one association go to the Old Scout website and see what the young guns say about the USSSA, which now dominates young guys slowpitch softball.

SPA may not be perfect but they have a place in Senior Softball, JMO.

Oct. 5, 2011
fathertime35
5 posts
Our team played in a tournament last year that had only one Major plus team in it.
So, they were dropped down to the Major division and had to give runs. All their
games counted in the seeding games. When the double elimination started they were
not able to advance through the bracket. They got their five games in and the teams who played them viewed it as a practice game and were able to advance. Everyone on
our team felt this was a fair way to handle it.
Oct. 5, 2011
GaCMan
85 posts
Fathertime35, now this I would agree with. That seems to be a fair way to do this.

Perly I agree with everything you said, we do need more than one org. I just think some things need to worked out so this situation doesn't happen again.

On a better note I heard from a very reliable source that the Columbus LX today was awarded the CHAMPIONSHIP for the 60s AAA division. Since they worked so hard for it this seems to be RIGHT THING TO DO. It's a shame this couldn't have happened at the tournament, would have meant a lot more.

Had our tournament gone the way fathertime35 said I think the outcome would have been much different. Up until we played the major team we had not lost a game and had beaten 3 of the 5 teams in the tournament.

Bruceinga you guys have a great team and also are a great bunch of guys. We should have played a much better game against you just think the whole MAJOR thing got in our head before the game ever started. Where as your team seems to be a very solid Major team ours has not even 1 major player.Had we have had 2 or 3 and been on the upper end of the AAA scale maybe could heve done better. That being said there has to be a better way for teams like yours to get some level of equal competition without doing it this way. Well enough rambling on an on MAYBE NEXT TIME!!!!!
Oct. 5, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
larry when we played you guys in georgetown this year,did you have to give 5 runs,or can you remember.i can't remember.it was a 65M+ vs 60AAA
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