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Discussion: Team Moving Down to Major

Posted Discussion
Nov. 30, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
Team Moving Down to Major
Question for SSUSA Staff: If a team is moved down from Major Plus to Major as a result of a successful petition does it then have the ability to add 3 new Major Plus players in 2012 and be within the rules? Thanks.
Nov. 30, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1008 posts
That will be a case-by-case decision. Generally, a team receiving a downward rating adjustment based on a successful appeal is prohibited from adding 'new' players with a history during the two previous seasons that exceeds the new team rating. Please send an e-mail to the SSUSA office with the specifics, including the team name and the proposed player roster addition names, for a definitive ruling.

Nov. 30, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I am sure I don't know all the particulars, and I suppose a review is appropriate, but isn't this kind of a no-brainer.
Nov. 30, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1936 posts
Is that why you responded even to this Gary??? Could not resist-forgive me , Lord! :-)
Nov. 30, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
If this was meant to be private, he could have just sent the Staff an email.
Nov. 30, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
380 posts
Two things (so far) are not explicit in the language of this rule.

First, does "two previous seasons" mean
1. both, all inclusive, start to finish, or
2. any part of either season, even if only for a day.

And secondly, if #2 above:
If players complete a season, do not win AAA worlds, and move on or team disbands, or both, then (dead) team is re-rated Major the next round of rating review, the following year, and the players never play Major, are they tagged Major? Or does the tag not/never apply until a player actually plays at the higher level, for any part of 1 season? All of one season? All of two seasons?

"Case-by-case decision" puts such a burden on SSUSA, and opens wide the "arbitrary" door. Team ratings is a huge challenge already. If the new rule is not precise and applied uniformly (case-by-case) it could very well cause even more trouble for all.

I still believe proper rating is the right way to go, protecting the 99% from the 1%, an admirable thing these days.

ShaneV
Nov. 30, 2011
garyheifner
331 posts
Maybe I am being a little dense here but:

The reason to petition to be moved down from M+ to M is that you feel you can't compete at that level. If the appeal is granted and you then turn around and add "3" M+ players, wouldn't that make you about the best M team in the known Universe or at least now be able to compete at the M+ level?

To me that appeal should be reversed quickly.
Dec. 1, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
Thanks SSUSA Staff for the reply. As I suspected, there is a grey area here contrary to Gary's "no-brainer" assertion. I would have to agree that the addition should be on a case-by-case basis since I know several players who are classified as Major Plus simply because they have played at that level in the past. If one looked at them individually, no way would they be rated Major Plus. I know a few guys who now play at the Major Plus level who have played AA, AAA and Major as well. And those players are good at every level.
Dec. 1, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
Also, I made a conscious choice to post this question on the public forum so that others could possibly benefit from the SSUSA's response.
Dec. 1, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Maybe it's the first name, but the other Gary saw through this just as quickly as I did.
Dec. 1, 2011
the wood
1071 posts
Larry, I understand your point very clearly. There is definitely a gray area when it comes to classifying/re-classifying a player. You've played M+ for the better part of 15 years and, if anyone knows what a true M+ player looks like, it would be you.
As you probably know, SPA is making an effort to create such a list and have asked for help from players. It's difficult to create a clear cut definition of a M+ player. It's even more difficult to determine which side of the line some players might be.
The same problem exists for SSUSA... or any other association. It is highly subjective, which means that it is indeed 'gray area'.
BW
Dec. 1, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Gary19, not everything is as transparent as you constantly make them out to be. There are times when rules just cant be that clear or cut and dry.
I would suggest you make the convention in Florida this year and clear up all the rules for us naive 40 to 80 year old men.

Woody good to see you here now and then, always a pleasure reading your insights.
Hows the hip?
Dec. 1, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I agree with what you say about the rules, though part of that could be there are too many of them to cover too many situations that don't need to exist (e.g. snowbirds, 4 classifications instead of the 3 or only just 2 that would be sufficient).

But in this case, from the outside looking in, it seems very suspicious that this team appeals to move down and them immediately wants to pick up (load up?) 3 players form the classification they just left.
Dec. 1, 2011
the wood
1071 posts
John, it is responding well to rehab... much better/faster than the first one. Don't look back or I'll be gaining on you. :-)
Thanks for asking...
BW
Dec. 1, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Woody, you, Billy Stirton, Doc Swear and I need to run a race. I know I can take Doc Swear aka. Krispy Kreme. But you and Billy I worry about. =)
Dec. 1, 2011
the wood
1071 posts
Three out of four... that's the ones with valid excuses for their current lack of speed and grace...
BW
Dec. 1, 2011
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
The Rolling Thunder Race!
Dec. 4, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Woody and John, next time you talk to or see Doc, ask him who came in as a courtesy runner for him in Vegas. It was classic.
Hope to see you guys in Jan. in Menifee.
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