http://seniorsoftball.com/?page=12

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 0 members ; 121 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Breaking up a SPA Nat. Champion to stay in Majors, how many players can a team keep and still not move up?

Posted Discussion
Jan. 18, 2012
Batbreaker
Men's 50
79 posts
Breaking up a SPA Nat. Champion to stay in Majors, how many players can a team keep and still not move up?
Is this even possible? if so who needs to approve it.
Jan. 19, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1124 posts
See the Message Board post near the top of the page titled: TEAM RATINGS Guidelines & Procedures, specifically item #6 therein:

6. A team retains its rating unless it falls below 6 players from the original team.

Note:
If more than three (3) of those players from the former year (2011) Championship team end up on any other Major team during the 2012 or 2013 Season, that team will be re-rated to Major Plus immediately.

If you have further questions, and for discussion of the other issues that may impact your team rating, please call the Sacramento Home Office of SSUSA and/or the Mustang, OK, Home Office of SPA for further assistance. Thanks!

Jan. 19, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
Just curious why you would brake up a team instead of moving up?
Jan. 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
It seems to be the senior way. Notice how many teams on the board fight moving up.
Jan. 19, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
388 posts
Mario, Yes very interesting.
I have been on 2 different teams to win a national championship. One team just desentrigrated (hope that is spelled correctly) and the other had an age shift and scattered.
I can not imagine why a team early in its age division would break up instead of moving up. You WON. It is really a BIG deal. It is something we do if we are fortunate.
WHY not go to the next level??? WHY not complete.
I am moving up in age this year, the team I will be playing with got moved up for 2012, so, we will go for it.

The greedy try to stay low is tho only answer I can truely give you Mario. It is a sad answer.

James
Jan. 20, 2012
coop3636
57 posts
I can give a few reasons a team would NOT move up to the next level.
1) If you are moving from major to major plus, there are not enough major plus teams around to have good tournaments without traveling across the USA to find a tournament with more than 4 teams in your division.
2) If you can find tournaments within your half ofyour side of the country, you will probably play the same teams over and over each weekend. (I like to play different teams from different places, it makes it more fun)
3) If you won just ONE tournament to get moved up, your team might not be structured to move up, you just had a great weekend and then became a victim of some unrealistic rules.
4)Maybe your team would like to defend your title for one year and prove to yourself that your are good and just not a fluke.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Brett Cooper
Jan. 20, 2012
stick8
1261 posts
Brett, reasons 1 and 2 are compelling enough to combine major and major plus.
Jan. 20, 2012
Mr. Manassas
225 posts
I have been on many teams that win a tournament and have been moved up. The absolute biggest problem is the fact that often in the Major plus division there is no one to play and you feel like the bastard child that no one wants. The tourney directors want your money so they contrive some kind of mini event for you and send you home early. I think that the solution lies in creating some kind of handicap that can be applied to the teams that win most aften and combine some classifications.
Jan. 20, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
676 posts
Stick8, The ISSA has combine the Major Plus and the Major divisions. In their TOC next weekend there are 5 teams in the 60 Major classification 4 of those teams are rated Major Plus and the fifth is just as good as the other 4. ( sorry Bruce)It will prove very interesting as to how many true Major teams will play in the ISSA tourneys. To me there is a great difference between the Major and Major Plus teams at least on the east coast. Thanks Harry # 20 NV FORCE
Jan. 20, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
676 posts
Mr Manassas, Good luck next weekend. Your best buddy Mr Grumpy
Jan. 20, 2012
stick8
1261 posts
That's a good thing birdie. Now if only SSUSA and the others can follow suit. Being on a 50 major plus team myself, and Mario is my back up on this, there were 3 events were slated to play in last year but didn't because of no major plus teams. Our sponsor wasn't about to spend money to go to an event where we play every game with the equalizer rules.
Jan. 20, 2012
Tim Millette
478 posts
On this major plus thing.... Seniors have the same problem the kids have.
The problem is.... Unless you turn over the top no one wants to move up.

ie.... For major
Plus senior softball to thrive it MUST not let power houses dominate year after year.
Unless senior softball creates an elite list that helps regulate how many top players can be on any one team.... Major plus will continue to struggle.

I'd recommend having a limit of Major plus champions on any one team...let's say..... No more then five major plus champions can be onthe same major plus roster untill they join the next age group.

Doing this will spread out the talent more evenly then it is now.

It reads like a major level champion can only return three players and play in the same class.... I see giving returning major plus Champon teams two more players (5 instead of 3) and allowing them to come back with half thier starters as a way to help build the Major plus Divisions.

Throwing the major plus in with the major division is just pushing the problem down to road/divisions.
Jan. 20, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Tim, this will still mean rating individual players, am I correct?
Looking at the SPA impact players list and reading some of the posts about it sound like its a very old, antiquated, incomplete list.
That said it would seem to be very difficult to track individual players and their abilities or lack of.
Plus forcing a team to effectively disban seems a drastic step.
I just am not sure there is a fair way to move teams and players up or down, other then how its being done. The way its being done just needs to be a bit more explained and fair. imo
Jan. 20, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Birdie, what are you thinking??????? You know we will be lucky to win one game! ;)
Our third pool game will be against the High St Bucks 55 and the first and second is against the High Street Bucks 60's and Turn Two. I'm looking forward to the tournament.

As for the IPL, they realize it isn't complete. I'm sure it will be the topic of hours of conversation on the way to Tampa.

Tim, SPA might be looking for an additional person to contribute to the Impact Player List committee. Want to volunteer?
Jan. 20, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
I believe you could combine Major+ and Major. Just make the HR rule 7 and 1 up and a walk. If a tem can hit 5 a game then they can hit 7 a game. I also believe that there are Major teams right now that could compete with any of the Major+ teams. With limited runs per inning can someone tell me why this could not work?
Jan. 20, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
Stick8 call me at 317-281-0734 at your earliest convienience.
Jan. 20, 2012
Tim Millette
478 posts
On this major plus thing.... Seniors have the same problem the kids have.
The problem is.... Unless you turn over the top no one wants to move up.

ie.... For major
Plus senior softball to thrive it MUST not let power houses dominate year after year.
Unless senior softball creates an elite list that helps regulate how many top players can be on any one team.... Major plus will continue to struggle.

I'd recommend having a limit of Major plus champions on any one team...let's say..... No more then five major plus champions can be onthe same major plus roster untill they join the next age group.

Doing this will spread out the talent more evenly then it is now.

It reads like a major level champion can only return three players and play in the same class.... I see giving returning major plus Champon teams two more players (5 instead of 3) and allowing them to come back with half thier starters as a way to help build the Major plus Divisions.

Throwing the major plus in with the major division is just pushing the problem down to road/divisions.
Jan. 21, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
676 posts
Bruce, I know that you guys will be able to hold your own against any of those teams. Will you be playing with the Wild Bunch in the TOC? Good luck this weekend to you and your team. Thanks Harry
Jan. 21, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I don't have any plans to play with them in the TOC.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners