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Discussion: 5 game guarantee

Posted Discussion
Aug. 15, 2012
jrhunch
85 posts
5 game guarantee
i will never go to another 5 game guarantee tournie like raleigh again.the teams that won the 8am saturday game which started the actual tournie were the only teams that could be eliminated saturday.if you lost the 8am game you were guaranteed to play sunday.plus the winner of the 8am game played all day while the losers came back at 2:30.there were 6 teams in the bracket the guarantee games should have been prelims.we lost our 2nd game and had 2 play sweets after being at the fields since 7am.sweets played and lost at 8am they didnt have 2 play until 2:30.if sweets lost they were still in the tournie sunday.the 2 teams that were eliminated saturday were the 2 teams that won at 8am everyoneelse played sunday.dont understand the concept of rewarding losing.not taking anything away from the victors nor crying about losing.only whining about this concept.if us and the mass.team would have won our second game the 4 losing teams would have played each other with noone getting eliminated.been around a long time and never heard of this and dont want to play and also pay to enter something like this again.is it just me?
Aug. 15, 2012
kid 32
20 posts
In my 2 years in senior ball I have noticed alot of inconsistency in the tournament formats and home run rules! Have played both SPA and SSUSA! Not sure why!
Aug. 15, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
388 posts
HEY TT, I agree with you, I have played in the SSUSA in AZ for all of it in the 60+ (10 years ago). We had 22 teams in our group. Played a lot of games. But it was 1 game less than we wanted, it was fun.
The team that beat us won the championship. We had beat them in Dallas earlier in the year, when they beat us 16 to 15 they knew they would win the SSUSA National Championship.
Played in 94 Industrial National Championship in Lakeland Fl. with the young one's. We went directly into the tournament. After airfair from Tulsa Ok and hotel bills we went 2 and out. Wow, I love the Senior Format best, AS WE get to play.
Aug. 15, 2012
stig1
Men's 60
32 posts
The double elimination three game guarantee makes it hard on teams that lose the first and second games and in senior ball playing more games in the tournament is a disadvantage especially in the heat. Also tournament directors try to keep as many teams around for as long as they can.
Aug. 15, 2012
DCPete
231 posts
The 3-game guarantee is a very flawed concept that SSUSA adopted 2 or 3 years ago because it resulted in a few less total games than a 3-game round robin with a straight double elimination bracket.
Then when teams that lost their 1st 3GG game starting forfeiting their 2nd 3GG game since it was essentially meaningless, SSUSA adopted a new rule stating that a team forfeiting a game would be automatically eliminated.
Now it sounds like the 3GG format was taken to a new level of ridiculousness at the Raleigh tournament.
It's very discouraging that SSUSA chooses to adopt policies that are not in the players best interests even though the players are their paying customers.
Aug. 15, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1127 posts
Seems like it's time to recycle this one again, for the third time - REPRINT OF MESSAGE BOARD POST FROM 2006 AND 2011 ON TOPIC:

There are three principal reasons SSUSA adopted (in 2006) the two Round Robin into Three-Game-Guarantee Bracket (2RR/3GG) format for brackets of five or more teams –

1. A strong majority of teams believe that the ‘real’ tournament begins only when the elimination bracket begins, regardless of its structure. The 2RR/3GG format gets teams into the brackets earlier and keeps them there longer, meeting that majority belief while still complying with the five game guarantee offered in SSUSA events.

2. The 2RR/3GG format requires less total games than the former 3RR/DE structure. With the growth in the number of teams being at a faster rate than the availability of new playing facilities, ‘every game counts’ in scheduling.

3. In any division with an odd number of teams playing a three-game seeding, one of those teams must play an “exhibition” game that doesn’t count in the standings, but constitutes that team’s fourth game prior to the bracket. Almost all teams that draw that extra game believe it is unfair. There are no “exhibition” games in the 2RR/3GG format.

Remember that the 2RR/3GG format is not a triple-elimination bracket. This format simply does what its title indicates: It guarantees each team three games in the bracket, regardless of the outcome of their first two games. This guarantee is accomplished by feeding any potential loser of their first two games back into the Elimination Bracket, where they remain alive and eligible to win the Championship. Therefore, the timing of when games are won or lost, and their practical effect, is important.

As is the case with any bracket type, the easiest path to the Championship is remaining ‘above the line’ in the Winner's Bracket, and in the 2RR/3GG format, after you have played two games in the Bracket, it’s an excellent idea to keep winning! Quirks can, and do, arise in any format, but this 2RR/3GG has been both efficient and almost universally well received since its introduction at the Cal Cup in 2006. The 3GG format is also the industry norm for the ASA, NSA, USSSA and several other softball associations.

Aug. 15, 2012
paul0784
Men's 60
122 posts
SSUSA staff as it turns out the two teams who won their first games Saturday were the only teams that could be sent home Saturday. It would have been better for us to lose to Sweets our first game then we would have been guaranteed to be around on Sunday. This is what JRHUNCH is getting to. We (Hannington/Bay State) got penalized for winning our first game and so did Pace. Along with that we played three games on Saturday and the teams that made it to Sunday only played two? How does that happen...
Aug. 16, 2012
Tim Millette
478 posts
I guess there are those that just want to have fun competing in a lot of games, and those that want to win the tourney.

I say the more games you can play, the better it is.

I have no problem with The SSUSA concept except if it requires Friday games.

I can understand the world finals being three days but for a guy working with family commitments...... The other three day events are not enticing.
Aug. 16, 2012
jrhunch
85 posts
tim i agree the more games the better but play the guarantee games in the prelims not the real tournie.we are paying alot of money to play why are we doing it this way.i dont believe anyone likes this concept once the prelims are over
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