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Discussion: ULTRA II WHY?

Posted Discussion
Aug. 7, 2006
JTS2
Men's 55
88 posts
ULTRA II WHY?
We played in St Louis in the ISA world tournament and the ULTRA II was legal. We played 50 major which had 5 teams Travelodge, Kittrells, Cajuns, Goodman Racing, and MetroStar. There were three 50+ teams Ploog, Pine Knob, and Randy Smith. In the games I played against Ploog and Pine Knob there were only on home run per game and none in any of the games against major teams. The other games I watched I did not see more than one or two home runs per game. My question is why were there so few home runs with some of the best teams in the country swinging the best bat allowed. One reason is the dog balls used. Why should we be required to use such a fragile bat just to be able to compete. As I have always said the UII is bad for the game. It is not healthy for everyone to use the same bat and have no competition. Do you think other bat companies will continue to support senior softball if no one is using their equipment. Will Miken sponsor every tournament? Tournament directors have the players right where they want them. They can dictate how a tournament is going to be played no matter what bat is being used. This is just the start if one director uses a bad ball word will get around because bad balls mean quicker games. Any time Bruce Meade playes five games and only hits one home run that just doesn't happen very often.
Aug. 7, 2006
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Stop bashing the Ultra. If it is banned again, they will still use the dog balls and EVERYONE that is EVERYONE will go to the next hottest bat and all will use it. Then when that is banned all will go to the next. In my younger years, I rarely went through a game without an HR using a single wall. However, remember back, We used hot dots and other balls that exploded off the bat. I have played in "7" tournaments this year against some very strong 60 teams and have not heard a single word about the ultra being bad for the game. If you want to play recrational ball, don't come out on the big time circuit. Stay in park district and ASA ball..
Aug. 8, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
JTS,
ASA (Burlington NC), USSSA (Salem OR), ISF/ISSA (Manassas Va), SSWS (Palm Springs, CA) & NSA (Rock Hill SC) are about the only Associations that do not use the U2. Even in NSA they didn't grandfather the Original Freak 100.

As long as people keep buying them, they will still make them, It seems like the duribility has been decreasing lately. It is the bat that everyone wants to use BUT they don't understand that you can't hit a "SOCK" of a ball any harder with it. HOT bats = soft balls :o)
Good Luck the Rest of the Year.

RedEye
Aug. 8, 2006
PattyMac
96 posts
Most major and major plus players that i know would rather hit a good ball with a regular bat than a sock with an ultra II. You are right about Bruce. If he only hits 1 hr then you have to know the ball is bad.

Maybe we should get together as players and teams and refuse to go to tournaments that use the sock balls.

Personally I wish they would outlaw the ultra II's again. Be realistic how frustrating is it to spend to money to go to a tournament and have no fun. HItting socks are no fun, even with a ultra II.

Maybe if we could get together and say we are not coming then maybe something will happen.

Just my two cents worth.

PattyMac
Aug. 8, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2634 posts
I agree with you PattyMac, I would much rather hit a 47 cor ball with a USSSA bat than a 44 with an Ultra 2.
It would great if more associations would ask for our input.
Aug. 8, 2006
the wood
1076 posts
Perhaps some teams have declined to go to 'no-Ultra' events. But how would one measure this/
As an example, they had four 50 major + teams in Salem and, unless I misunderstood, only 3 in St Louis. Geography and economics plays into this as well.
GSF would prefer to play with .47 cor balls and USSSA bats. In Salem we used USSSA bats and the Worth Elite ball (.44/400), which seemed to work out o.k. By and large, the guys that hit HRs are the guys that should. But we'd like to see a little better ball.
$64,000 question: which balls will be used in Seattle? in Palm Springs?
We already know that the LVSSA balls will be the Decker 44/375. When paired with the Ultra 2 a lot of HRs will occur... too many... IMO.
In our opinion, the best combo of balls/bats was SPA in 2004-2005. None of the ASA based events use decent balls anymore... even w/o the Ultra 2.
Aug. 8, 2006
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Because SSUSA caters to the whiners that can't hit without a UII and the reasoning that if you can't use a UII you won't go to a tournament is stupid. You won't play without your UII!!!

A good ball even withthe new ASA bats it is a lot better than UII's with socks.
Aug. 8, 2006
tattooball
605 posts
Low compression balss are much more tempature sensitive than high comp balls. If a ball is marked .44/375 and it is hard at 90 degrees it is not a .44/375. Trump has devloped a micro-cell ball that is not as sensitive as most and you will be seeing them more in the senior division.
Aug. 8, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2634 posts
Gary19, Input was given to SPA a year ago. Ridge Hooks polled all team managers last year and they overwhelmingly voted for the U2 and 44/375 ball. I voted for the 47/525 and 1.20 bpf bats.
Aug. 8, 2006
Dbax
Men's 60
1264 posts
This Ultra talk has been going on for years on htis message board. Very boring!
Aug. 8, 2006
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Gary,

You are correct! The teams that I play for will usually not go to tournaments that ban Ultra II(1 out of 100). But I recently went to a tournament using Ultra II and a sock would have been better than the ball used. Obviously, there needs to be a standard here voted on by the players and/or tournament organizations. Possibly some rule changes. The main problem here appears to be the safety factor of the defensive player, especially the pitcher. I know what I would do, but when I talk to players on my teams, it is a split decision. Therefore, I will not go into that issue. Just thought that I would throw my thoughts in here. I am in favor of whatever bat with a lively ball with some rules changes to protect the defensive players in the infield, especially the pitcher.
Aug. 8, 2006
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
I am not going to get into a discussion over rule changes, or that the game is good as it is. As a final comment from me, I play in 4 leagues, 3 senior leagues and one with 20-35 year olds, and they all have different rules, BUT all are for the purpose of safety. I will say the the 20-35 year old league kind of sucks. The competition is great, but the rules are terrible. No double-wall bats of any kind allowed and a crap ball. On top of that, the pitcher has an unlimited height on his arc. I think with the unlimited arc, that everything else should be allowed. The senior leagues, one allows sliding, one does not. One says there is a 5 run limit per inning with an open 7th, the other says you can score 5 or catch up to the othe team, if you are behind. Some tournaments are going to 11 defensive players and some do not. Some tournaments have a second home base and some a chalk line. Some fields still have 60 foot bases and most have 65 foot bases. Some tournaments allow the Ultra and some do not. "The game is the game..." Whatever!!
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