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Discussion: Dirty: Bats & ball info

Posted Discussion
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4334 posts
Dirty: Bats & ball info
So some searching within Stonman's postings. He was a wealth of info while here. Info on ball dynamics, travel speeds and distance. Bat info relating to many aspects of the games ie fast & slow pitch.
Or you could subscribe to B & N's web site for one, to gather info as well. There are a few good sites. Even for hitting, pitching (fast & slow pitch), and fielding.
Oct. 31, 2008
local
124 posts
Having played in Phoenix I noticed the balls did not carry as much as I am use to. Was it the balls, the heat or just me?
Oct. 31, 2008
hitt2
354 posts
Taits
Can you give any info on Diamond Flyer ball stock # 126YSC. It travel well off the bat , but was a little awkward throwing.
Oct. 31, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It's hard to say why but I felt a difference between the balls
in Reno and the ones in Phoenix.
Heat is a factor.
The altitude is a factor.
The balls are dumbing down in and around our game.
We know this for a fact.

If a number of people felt the same way about the ball
then I'd say we have some independent info
to suggest they'd been dumbed down.
We haven't heard from Anaconda or SSUSA
directly about the balls used in Phoenix.
They may or may not comment.

Suffice to say that balls and bat combos are dumbing
down and if we don't want that to happen
we need to be alert and proactive
not just reactive in our approach.

Stop dumbing down the balls we use,
I say.
Oct. 31, 2008
tattooball
605 posts
I would have to say that you are mis-informed. The ssusa balls are made 1000 dozen at a time. They are the exact ones used in reno, althought reno is almost a mile high may explain why average hitters can hit home runs there and not in pheonix. I saw many very long home runs hit in pheonix and they were hit by guys that can hit.

If you think the balls are bad in pheonix you should try playing the east coast in the summer. Heat and humidity kills the performance of low compression softballs. You would really be crying then. The players on the east coast are used to it and don't cry about it, it is just part of the game.
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4334 posts
Hitt2,
I know of the older balls, bot good. I might still have a few somwhere. Like tho dudleu sb12lnd's, but I do knw remember if the Flyers are cork lile the BS12's. The may have gotten better. I do not know. But I'd think the 12 is size ball not sure of the 6, Y is for yellow and the C could be cork. Not sure on the S. Unless senior...???
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4334 posts
typos,sorry
Not good, Dudley balls. Cork Like...
Oct. 31, 2008
SCRAPPY6
55 posts
HEAT AND COLD ARE DEFINATE FACTOR WITH SOFTBALLS. AS A PAST WORTH REP I SAW MANY REPORTS ON BALL PERFORMANCE TESTING.
TEMPERATURE AFFECTS A SOFTBALL AT APPROXIMATELY THIS LEVEL:
FOR EVERY 1 DEGREE OF TEMPERATURE CHANGE THE COMPRESSION CHANGES APPROXIMATELY 5 POUNDS.

BALLS ARE USUALLY TESTED AT 72 DEGREES.
IF THE PLAYING TEMPERATURE IS 82 DEGREES THE COMPRESSION CHANGES APPROXIMATELY 50 LBS WHICH WILL MAKE A 375 BALL PLAY LIKE A 325.
CONVERSELY IF THE TEMPERATURE IS 62 DEGRESS A 375 BALL WILL PLAY LIKE A 425.
(THAT IS WHY IN COLD WEATHER ALUMINUM BATS DENT MUCH EASIER--THE BALL IS HARDER)

IF YOU A GAME IS PLAYED AT 92 DEGREES YOUR 375 COMPRESSION SOFTBALL WILL PLAY LIKE A 275 COMPRESSION BALL.

THESE ARE ONLY ESTIMATES AND THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS SUCH AS HIUMIDITY, ETC. THAT ALSO TAKE EFFECT ON THE BALLS.
MIKE
SCRAPPY 6
Oct. 31, 2008
softball4b
Men's 60
730 posts
I did not have any trouble hitting the balls in Vegas or Phoenix. The ball at the SPA was not nearly as lively.
Oct. 31, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
We played most of our games after in both Vegas and Phoenix after 11:00 am. When we played early morning and night games, I noticed the ball was more lively.
Oct. 31, 2008
audieh
Men's 60
241 posts
The type of balls and their ratings make a difference in how they fly but humidity, air temperature, and altitude do as well. I live in Jacksonville, Florida at an elevation of 19.7' above sea level in a high humidity area. Nobody but a true monster hits a ball over 400' if it is a 44/375 ball. When we have played in Phoenix at an altitude of 1086' and dry air the ball travels much further. The same can be said of Las Vegas at 2001' of elevation and very dry air in the desert. I have not been to Reno but at an altitude of 4498' and dry air I would assume that the balls must surely fly.

Trumpball is right. On the east coast with the high humidity (read that heavy air) balls just do not travel as far. I only know of one player in Florida that is a senior that can hit a 44/375 over 400 feet pretty consistently and that is Mark Martin. At Vegas last year he hit a ball 535' that we measured.

Maybe, different balls are needed for different locales and different weather conditions. Now wouldn't that open up a can of worms?! Trumpball, can you make us some 44/375 balls that hit like Reno rockets?
Oct. 31, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin says the balls were the same
then they were the same.
I saw a lot of bombs hit, too, especially when I was pitching.
Ricky Bass from the MOB was tatooing the ball a lot, too.

We just don't want to lose anymore than's absolutely necessary
from the ball bat combo we experienced in Reno and Phoenix.
I agree with Audie (hi Audie) the balls at SPA were subpar
and they will pay for it next year.
I got hit again while pitching in the jaw this time
but it was because I wasn't warm and ready to play defense the way
I am capable.
Oct. 31, 2008
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
Like Einstein, I am not interested in having to hit softballs that don't fly. I found the balls in Phoenix flew fine if you hit them right, about the same as the balls in Reno.
Jano #23
Barcelona Bandits
Nov. 1, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
Tait: Went back in time. Here is some web site in formation.
Jan. 8, 2008
STONEMAN Topic: Product review
Discussion: INFOR on all the DIFF' SOFTBALL BALLS.

FRED S: Here is a list of most Softballs: 1) A D Starr 2) Baden 3) Champro 4) Demerini 5) Decker 6) Diamond 7) Dudley / Spalding 8) Evil 9) Legend 10) Thump 11) Worth

List of Countries that MFG Softballs: 1) China (7) 2) Taiwan 3) Haiti (2) 4) USA (?) 5) Pakistan & a few more

Different Centers: 1) Solid Kapok Core 2) Rubber 3)PVC, PU, TPU 4) Cork / Rubber 5) Solid Poly / Cork 6) Poly Core 7) Multi layers 8) & a few others.

Makers of Softball Cores: (3). The 3 Major Companies r: 1) ISO Tech. 2) DASS 3) I forgot, the last one.

There r 2 major companies that stich most of the Softballs.

I hope this might help, u understand why, certain softballs
last longer or travel farther
T Hi-J
Nov. 1, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
Tait: last one. Too much work.
The following should help you in understanding the ball compression and how it relates to certain bats. I have broken it down to what I hope is an easier to understand format, because I know it can be confusing.

375lbs low compression = more flexible or 'mushy' does not perform well with high flex bats. DO NOT USE A BAT THAT has a great deal of FLEX! Use a STIFF BAT!

400lb-475lbs. mid compression = medium flexibility still performs OK with most bats.

525lb. compression= harder ball-performs well with almost any bat on the market, but especially juiced or high flex models etc.

Core 47= more flexible bouncy or 'mushy'
Core 44= medium flexibility
Core 40= less flexible


As you can see here if you were to have a core 40 with a low compression ball you still will have decent almost mid performance, which I have found to be true in my own testing as well. But as soon as you pair up low comp with core 44 or 47 now you have much more loss in performance with the high flex bats and why I now recommend the RT CK with those balls. Anything mid and above will perform well with high flex bats and juiced bats. The ultimate for ball hardness would be 525lbs. paired up with core 40 not 47. I know many balls are paired more with 525lbs. and core 47, but the 47 is not what makes those balls fly so far, it is the compression.

NOTE: A balls COMPRESSION & NOT a balls core is the most important factor!!!! So, a 40 core ball w/ a 525 compression, in 50 degree weather, will "fly" a long way.

Endloaded bats will in all instances make any ball fly farther, but in the case of low compression with core 44 and 47, it may not be enough to overcome the loss in performance that is experienced from the flexibility of the ball.

Outside temperature and the climate you may play in will also effect performance. Cooler temps will keep the ball harder and flying farther. Warmer temps will keep the ball more flexible and mushier.

Also bat weight also factors into hitting a ball for distance. The heavier the bat and the heavier the endload you can swing the better for distance, even and or especially on the mush balls.

I hope this may help some pick the right Bat(s) or Balls; in League or Tournaments.
Not sure who, wrote this information.
T Hi-J
Nov. 1, 2008
Smokey20
Men's 55
102 posts
Joe,

Thought the ball in Phoenix was fine. We had night, morning, and mid-day games. I think what SSUSA has established is perfect.
Nov. 1, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4334 posts
THJ,
The info available is more than I wanted to cut and paste for dirty here. If he wants to learn some good facts on researched data, I just pointed the way for him for research some posts. Like you say," too much work" ... to do for someone else, not really into these specific games (senior tournaments on a national level) imo.
Stonman put a lot of work into all he posted on these issues.
Nov. 1, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2629 posts
I too, miss Stoneman''s posts. Maybe he'll show up at Classic Spring Training in February.
Nov. 1, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
hey guys got to hit the usssa major ball today(i guess its the 40-375 ball,right kev)well i decided to test them against my senior bats along with others i have. i was told these balls have been hit a hundred or so times each at least.temp was between 75-82 for the day as we hit,slight out going wind.
senior bats = 1 gray combat game ready 26 oz bal;1 ultra-2 ,ASA stamped, just about game ready if not already 27 oz;1 red combat 26 el 3/4 toward game ready.: usssa bats(all of these are game ready) 1 syn-2 26 oz ; 1 combat virus 26 oz el;1 miken 585 26 oz: ASA bats 2 rip-it fast pitch 1- 26 oz,1- 25oz;1 rip-it reaper 26 oz,1 combat virus fast pitch 24 oz
round 1 senior bats
all 3 of these bats hit the ball good.i had a few out with them(we hit 24 balls each round,not each bat tho) and the ball came off the bat real nice.i will say you guys who hit them out now will still be doing it with them if the senior org's go to them.
round 2 usssa bats
i will tell you there was no prol in taking balls out with my utrip gamers.balls jump off the bat just like my gray combat.
round 3 ASA bats
these bats are not as broke in as my other bats and the ball still came off them nice and hard,came close to getting some out,rattled the fence but thats as close as i could do.i think i finally got a little tired and my bats not being fully broke in yet as maybe a good reason they just wouldn't clear the fence.

if the dumbed down ball is going to be this one then i have no prol with it.this ball seems to hold up real good,for right now.we have to wait for the heat of texas to see how they work then.so i say the usssa maojor ball will be a GTG.so for you guys who are mashers now i wouldn't worry about this ball as it will travel the 301' that we need to clear the fence with.some of the young guys who were hitting were getting in the mid 300's(330-360') for flight.
kevin is the ASA ball that walk tested the same specs or what.
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