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Online now: 2 members: Pablo14, scottflodin; 16 anonymousDiscussion: Viva Las Vegas
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| Oct. 13 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Here's a direct quote from Gary Pro, one of the admins of the great tournament just played in Las Vegas using good balls, good bats, no PPR and no HR's as outs. "Anyone want to guess how many injuries we had in this tournament that required medical attention during which hundreds of games were played? Two - one from sliding and one from diving after a ground ball." This has been the point all along. The safety patrol are meaningfully errant and/or running another agenda, obviously. And Nancy says there's more chance for injury in cheer leading than softball. I saw the biggest, fiercest hitters on the planet purposely not hit balls anywhere near the middle in the championship game with everything on the line. Las Vegas is an example of the way tournaments need to look/be in the future if seniors are going to continue to invest in away tournaments. It's about fun and not profit, control, recalcitrance or paranoia. |
| Oct. 13 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Problem here is that they only put two on a year, April\May & Sept\Oct. That has onlt been the last few years or so too. Before that i think onle one in Sept\Oct. You may want to sit the rest of the year but I doubt others will with you. The have lately had good tourneys granted but it wasn't always this way. Same goes with all the others, good ones, bad ones, (filled divisions or brackets or only a couple of teams) Either way, the show will go on. One great tourney or one bad one should not a tournament be judged by. It has to have a track record for them. It's currently mixed results. Let's hope it continues and there are more.... |
| Oct. 13 barrym 158 posts | i got the holy ? beat out of me, but would blame it on the balls just great hitters. That the chance you take when playing the infeild in fack my wrist and finger are still numb. That's part of the game don't change anything. |
| Oct. 13 busdriver 18 posts | ITdoesnt matter how many injuries you have, it only takes one! that is one to many! |
| Oct. 13 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | One injury is one too many???????? What sport/activity can you engage in where you can't be hurt??????? I should have retired in little league. No guts, no glory has deep and wide meaning far beyond the softball diamond relating to pride, accomplishment and character. This is the kind of knee jerk unreasonable response that we run into a lot when going up against the powerful few who are trying to sell us snake oil balls and equipment to make us and our game well. Now hear this... Our game ain't broken, dudes and don't need to be fixed. Injuries absolutely must be a part of our game or there is no game. Let's all try to keep perspective on this thing ask questions and follow the money and we'll see what's what, who's zoomin' who and what we want/need to do about it. |
| Oct. 13 JamesLG 420 posts | Hi Joe: I believe a lot of guys are making judgement after Phoenix. Last weekend we had a warmup tourney that included a couple powerhouse 40's teams with dead ball singles after the (HR)limit and the only person I saw get hurt was me and I hit the ball. We used great Trump balls and the temp was about 55 degrees. I hope Dave hears what folks are saying the next couple weeks both positive and negative. Thanks: James Thank You: James |
| Oct. 14 busdriver 18 posts | Just like a bad intersection, nothing iis done till someone is mamed or killed |
| Oct. 14 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Nancy (hi Nancy) knows and says softball's gotta be dangerous in order to be enjoyed. It wouldn't matter if an old guy, god forbid, gets killed by a softball. It's part of the game we all play and the risk we all must take. Take away the risk and there is no game to play. It's that simple. Watch out for snake oil salesmen telling us our game is broken and only they can save us from ourselves. That's the same reason they used to ban alcohol during prohibition isn't it. |
| Oct. 14 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | What I didn't hear from Gary Pro is how many pitchers left Vegas with bruises and knots on them from getting hit with that ball and this was with unlimited home runs so if the saying is "after we are out of home runs we will hit the middle" so I ask how can you run out of home runs with unlimited home runs. |
| Oct. 14 SLOBALL1 Men's 50 174 posts | Some snake oil salemen sell more than snake oil and one of them can't stop talking about balls. |
| Oct. 14 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | I like to promote safety at all times. I don't want our players doing anything (intentionally) to injure players on the other team and I expect this in return. But there will be injuries because we cannot control everything that occurs on the field or court. This is the risk that we all take when we sign up to play. I've had numerous surgeries and they resulted from football, basketball and softball... I've also received stitches for cuts in all three sports... at no time did I play without an awareness of the injuries. But the issue of whether the bat/ball combo is 'correct' for seniors really has aife of its own. IMO, this is different than a busted chin from an errant elbow in basketball, etc. This is something that can be controlled by allowing or disallowing certain equipment on the field. As far as I can tell, the debate rages on with no one making a decisive point (decisive = a point to end all points). Until one is made, each player has the right to protect himself (protective equipment) and failure to do so is a choice made by a player fully aware of the risks. I'm not one that likes the idea of legislating my feelings onto others. It does not need to be mandatory. If you want to use it, do so... if you don't, do not use it. Either way, it's up to each player to assess his level of risk and prepare accordingly. We all need to accountable to ourselves and to others (creating undue risks toward anyone else). Rather than appeal to the masses about mandating safety equipment, why not use that same energy toward the guys that pitch for your team? It seems to me that this would be a more prudent way to achieve a heightened level of safety. BW |
| Oct. 14 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | BW, Very good post !!!...GOOD LUCK. |
| Oct. 14 The Pro 81 posts | Don't know how many pitchers left with bruises or knots, but my guess is there was no more of them than any other infielder. Pitchers and infielders I believe are leaving tournamnets played with any kind of ball, any kind of bat and at any age and skill level, with bruises and knots. There was, however, in my observation, more pitchers wearing protective equipment than ever before. As Wood said this is a viable and voluntary option and it takes nothing away from the game. The only division with "unlimited" home runs was Major Plus. All others had a limit then "singles" except AA where after one they were outs. |
| Oct. 14 The Pro 81 posts | By the way I am a member of LVSSA but I am not on the board nor do I have any administrative role with LVSSA. I'm a life long ( 50+ years) fan and player currently trying to return from double hip replacements. I love the game and am very interested in all issues that affect it. |
| Oct. 14 Gekle BUilders Men's 50 204 posts | Hey Wood,Your point on accountability is right on.It seems to me that if players or teams have a problem with the balls and bats at a particular tournament,that they would not attend this event.Is it the combination of bats and balls that attract them or is this keeping players away?example:ISF and ISSA until this year used ASA equipment with low draw to some very nice tournaments.This year nice draw to these same tournaments,with senior bat and ball combo's introduced and it was used on web messages and tournament title page as a draw.So i'm sure Assn's will follow the money.To get your point accross don't show up where equipment you don't like is being used.If enough people stop coming than change will happen.Or is there a vocal few who really care and the rest just want to play ball?IMO we will play with whats allowed would not cancel event with either combonation of ASA or Senior equipment.Do whats best for your weell-being.Most participants know what equipment is being used prior to entering.Not really anything to argue about.These threads are just peoples opinions'have nothing to do with SSUSA's directions or concerns.I'm sure they will do whats best for all to keep Seniors having fun. |
| Oct. 14 DoubleL10 Men's 70 907 posts | Ray, ISSA used to use good bats (Ultra IIs) a few years ago with crappy balls and teams (Hendricks Sports and Boaz) stopped coming when they went to ASA bats. We came (and complained) with good bats and crappy balls but when they went ASA all-around, we opted to spend our money elsewhere. Finally, it appears RB Thomas has heard senior players and went back to "good bats" and decent balls. We plan on returning next year after a several year absence. |
| Oct. 14 Gekle BUilders Men's 50 204 posts | DoubleL10 my point exactly.You didn't like the equipment so you didn't go.It's that easy.We played there with ASA stuff and this year with Senior stuff.Had great time both formats. |
| Oct. 14 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | It should be you decision as to what protective equipment to wear. |
| Oct. 14 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Let me say this about that. I don't prefer masks or screens but if it comes to punishing all the hitters by using crappy balls in the name(only) of safety and there's people out there though in the minority who think this is OK, it's not OK. Good balls/good bats forever and thanks again Gary Pro for helping put on a great tournament and no one got maimed or crippled or even close and we had a great time. |
| Oct. 14 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | The whole problem is that some of the equipment has made the game just a little too quick for the players.(Pitchers) it is just luck that a pitcher is not hit and hurt. There are some players that have quicker reactions than others but the bottom line is that even the quickest players that I have ever seen are having problems reacting to the ball.....With modern technology it would seem that this problem could be solved... |
| Oct. 14 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | A little too quick, maybe. I call it Miken speed. When I'm playing infield I have to think Miken speed and anticipate the ball coming faster than I'm used to or I don't glove it at all or well enough to make a play. The jump from Super Blue Dots to 44 x 375 balls that won't go 300 feet when it's hot and/or 525x275 balls that won't go when center struck, just like a piece of crap restricted flight ball, or sound like a normal ball or field like a normal ball is way to BIG. Someone has stones trying to move us that far DOWN the line and though we tend to roll with the punches they've already gone this much of a thumping is ridiculous. And we have to deal with the captain of the ball police ready to drop dimes and suggest/launch law suits to keep balls from being better than the ones he makes. Wasn't like this a couple of years ago. What's happened and who's joined the "ball" market game? My point my good Man-- is that it's gone way too far in the other direction. Way to far with motivation, reasoning and the benefit of just a few behind it. |
| Oct. 15 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | Maybe a screen is the simplest answer. I too like the feel of the senior bats and am not sure that I would like to give that up. |
| Oct. 15 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Screens would be the simplest and safest adjustment enabling good bats and balls and opening up the middle to a ton of hitters like me who don't want to hurt a pitcher if at all possible. It would stop bat wars, too and make for better, higher scoring games. |
| Oct. 15 tattooball 774 posts | How is this simple and safe? What is the new rule when a ball hits the screen? What is the new rule when an outfielder throws a ball home and it hits the screen. What is the new rule if the ball deflects off the screen and goes to an infielder that can make a play? I guess no more double plays back up the middle. What is going to happen when a ball is hit back to a pitcher and he sticks his glove out to catch the ball and it nicks the screen and deflects into his wrist and breaks it? What happens when the pitcher moves the screen to one side and uses it to take away some of the field while he is not using it for protection? Come on I can't think of them all but this is just the beginning of a bunch more needless and usless rules. Just have a home run derby instead of playing a real game. Use your own pitcher so if you hit him it is your team mate. Take the team and each player gets five swings. In the end the team with the most home runs advances and the loser goes home. This will make the game safer, cost less, and you can hit good balls and bats without killing someone. |
| Oct. 15 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | Joe, In vegas you had scores in all age groups in the 40's and in some age groups in the 50's. How much would be enough for you as in your post above. The combined scores are more than 80% of the scores in the NFL. |
| Oct. 15 tattooball 774 posts | How is this simple and safe? What is the new rule when a ball hits the screen? What is the new rule when an outfielder throws a ball home and it hits the screen. What is the new rule if the ball deflects off the screen and goes to an infielder that can make a play? I guess no more double plays back up the middle. What is going to happen when a ball is hit back to a pitcher and he sticks his glove out to catch the ball and it nicks the screen and deflects into his wrist and breaks it? What happens when the pitcher moves the screen to one side and uses it to take away some of the field while he is not using it for protection? Come on I can't think of them all but this is just the beginning of a bunch more needless and usless rules. Just have a home run derby instead of playing a real game. Use your own pitcher so if you hit him it is your team mate. Take the team and each player gets five swings. In the end the team with the most home runs advances and the loser goes home. This will make the game safer, cost less, and you can hit good balls and bats without killing someone. |
| Oct. 15 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Most exciting game I ever played was in Plano, Texas, at SPA a few years ago with the California Rebels against Pine Knob in the 50 major plus and that game would determine the championship. It went over 2 hours and into the night and the score was 43 to 38(close). People from all over the park came to watch that game because it was so riveting and excitng. We were using very good balls no time limits and I think unlimited home runs. What a game. |
| Oct. 15 ROOSTER10 Men's 60 91 posts | I really do not believe a 43-38 game is that exciting for the majority of Seniors playing today all over the country.What happened to defense and timely hitting etc.-to me that is exciting .Why should outfielders get stiff necks watching balls sail out of the parks.I realize that Major + teams expect that type of scoring but a 9-8 game is alot more fun for Seniors I believe. My 02. |
| Oct. 15 ROOSTER10 Men's 60 91 posts | I really do not believe a 43-38 game is that exciting for the majority of Seniors playing today all over the country.What happened to defense and timely hitting etc.-to me that is exciting .Why should outfielders get stiff necks watching balls sail out of the parks.I realize that Major + teams expect that type of scoring but a 9-8 game is alot more fun for Seniors I believe. My 02. |
| Oct. 15 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | My .02. Both games can be exciting, it depends on the level of play and the athleticism of the players. I have played on numerous games that were not settled until the last at bat regardless of whether the scores were in the teens or 20's-50's. There was just as much defense in the high scoring games because you could never give up an out. If you had a chance to get an out you better get it because the next one may be 6 batters later. I hate with a passion to say this, but one of the best defensive teams I ever played against was the Maroadi Teams. The games were almost always in the 20’s, but we were limited to 3 Hrs then outs. (40 and 45 Nationals.) IMO, in softball at most levels, low scoring games are a result of outside dynamics, (ball, bat, weather, sun, wind) as opposed to defense. Decent ball, bat, weather and conditions will result in games in the 20's and 30's. |
| Oct. 15 dj 32 posts | if safty for the pitcher is what we are all talking about use a screen we all use them in batting pratice dj |
| Oct. 15 dj 32 posts | use a screen we all use them in batting pratice dj |
| Oct. 15 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | One of my most exciting games was against Faith Elec here in Marietta about 4 years ago. I believe the score ended with us up, 51-52. What makes it so fun and exciting is that you know you must hit every inning. There were homeruns, maybe 6 or 7 per side, but there were also many, many singles. Very few errors. This is how I like to see games played, good defence and good hitting. I find low scoring games frustrating. A good team should be able to score at least 4 or 5 runs per inning, each player should be hitting 3/4 or 4/5. This is what drives the scores up! If most of your players only hit 2/4 or worse, they need to work on their hitting. |
| Oct. 16 WOW 197 posts | Trumpball. I would suggest you watch a few games where the screen is used and then make your comments.I play 75 to 100 games a yr. where the screen is used. Our leagues and assns. have answers for all you what ifs. No question, screens flat out, save pitchers from injuries......... |
| Oct. 16 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | If the pitcher gets a screen, when will the first and third basemen get theirs? This is said "tongue in cheek", but I guess you get my point. Where will it stop. The injury in Ohio last week that was caused by a bad hop, right? One thing that wasn't clear to me was it artificial turf on natural turf? If it was natural, where is the outcry to drag the fields after each game or more often, for safety's sake! |
| Oct. 16 tattooball 774 posts | WOW, At what point do we rename the game, soon it won't be softball. We will have to come up with a new name. If some one said 10 years ago pitchers would need screens to play you all would of been on here saying you would quit playing if that ever happened. |
| Oct. 16 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | bruce that to me is the biggest prol(not getting fields in proper playing condition).even here at the huntsman games there has been a few bad hops b/c of not dragging fields after games,and they have some of the best fields around,that i ever have played on. |
| Oct. 16 WOW 197 posts | Trump. 10 yrs ago we were all 10 yrs. younger............times change. When you get to be 65, will you want to stop playing? I think not. In fact, when I met you in Fla. last Jan., if I remember correctly, you were not even 50. When I was 50, I felt the same way. With age comes experience. I just think to err on the side of safety is a good thing. For you younger guys, if not using a screen is what you want, fine, but from my experience,a screen would benefit us all of us. Using a screen after age 60 or 65 should be a must. |
| Oct. 16 dj 32 posts | WOW good post, older , wiser, a screen is the best way to protect a pitcher, I would feel better about going middle if there was a screen dj |
| Oct. 16 tattooball 774 posts | WOW, 48 2 more years, but you did make a great point. As you get older you can't play as well as you did at 50. Why must you use a bat ball combination that endangers others? |
| Oct. 16 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Trumpball, I'm surprised einstein hasn't jumped on you yet for opposing screens because you just want to sell your dumbed down balls!LOL As to your legitimate questions, I agree with WOW that it is evident you haven't played with screens or seen many games with them. I have been playing day play, 120-150 games a year (I'm in California) for 10 years and the screen has been mandated for the entire time. In other words, I've pitched more than 1200 games with the screen. When the batted ball hits the screen, it is a dead ball-no pitch. Some clubs make it a strike. When the batted ball bounces off the screen to a fielder, it is still a dead ball-no pitch (or a strike). When an outfielder throws home and hits the screen (or a third baseman to first hits the screen) it is a live ball, no different than a thrown ball hitting a base or a bat on the field or an umpire. And here is the shocker—in my experience, I have never seen a third baseman hit the screen (in 1200 games) and an outfield throw hits the screen about once a year!! Just doesn't happen that often. I field plays up the middle all the time (you don't HAVE to stay behind the screen and/or you can certainly run beyond it for the slow or moderate hit ball) and a double play is not uncommon for the pitcher to start. Sticking your hand out and getting it broken on a deflected ball is less common than injuries from non-deflected balls. I've broken my glove hand thumb twice and my first finger once and none of them were deflections, but all hard hit balls up the middle (I'm only glad my glove took the shock, not my face). I play tournament ball about 15 weekends a year, pitch about a third of the time, so these injuries happen when I pitch 25-35 games a year versus the 120+ in day play. Taking some of the field away by screen positioning has NEVER been a complaint by any batter in the 10 years I've played with a screen, even though different pitchers position it differently. Charges of a team or individual hitting at a pitcher has often been a complaint in my tournament experience. Lest you think our day play group is a bunch of old codgers, it is true that most of the players are over 55 (not all of them), and the average skill level is probably AAA. We do have some major players and even some Major + who come out regularly. |
| Oct. 16 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Trumpball, So does that mean when you reach the 70's up divisions you're using whiffle balls and plastic bats? Don't think so. Good equipment is what we buy, you know that, that includes bats and BALLS. At 48, you should be playing in the "masters", loosely put, only because I doubt they MASTERED the game. Jut younger and willing to attend, to boost revenue for the assn. I'd venture a real poll from players handed out honestly tallied by independent sources would reflect is it's allowed (bat) use it, best ball available would be also preferred over a lessor type of any kind. But a poll has not been done on here & I doubt it will. Granted there are many that feel that since both teams will be using the same one it shouldn't matter, but that can change if a team brings in a iced up ball to make it better so that tells you something too. |
| Oct. 16 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Screen work or they wouldn't be used in BP let alone games. |
| Oct. 16 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Trumpball, So does that mean when you reach the 70's up divisions you're using whiffle balls and plastic bats? Don't think so. Good equipment is what we buy, you know that, that includes bats and BALLS. At 48, you should be playing in the "masters", loosely put, only because I doubt they MASTERED the game. Jut younger and willing to attend, to boost revenue for the assn. I'd venture a real poll from players handed out honestly tallied by independent sources would reflect is it's allowed (bat) use it, best ball available would be also preferred over a lessor type of any kind. But a poll has not been done on here & I doubt it will. Granted there are many that feel that since both teams will be using the same one it shouldn't matter, but that can change if a team brings in a iced up ball to make it better so that tells you something too. |
| Oct. 16 tattooball 774 posts | I like softball, not screen ball. It's so funny that 7 months ago all of you were on this very same board complaining about all of usless rules that the associations have put in senior softball. Now you are all on a roll wanting more rules to limit the game. As for the .52/275 ball don't worry guy's sales were very good this year and 2 associations are putting it in play this comming year. Last year over 80 ASA leagues used it with great sucess, and they used 1.20 bats as well. |
| Oct. 16 pete13ia Men's 50 16 posts | Tball, Nice one. I'm sure you relize you just set of a 200 paragraph 3 page tirade. How about nipping it in the bud by telling us there is no discussion about using that ball in SSUSA. You could save your friend from an all night typing session. E'stein do not take offense to this. I am with you on the using good balls and bats. Just in 3 or 4 sentences or less. |
| Oct. 16 Tate22 Men's 60 280 posts | Trumpball: The PPR is not just useless, it is unconscionably misleading. How on earth does a plane of thin air and the threat of an out protect anybody? IMHO the PPR is a misguided attempt by SSUSA to avoid liability for injuries. We would all be better served with a focus on the use of safety equipment. The message should be, "this equipment works and you are advised to use it" I personally believe that the use be left up to the individual. I also prefer softball with protective equipment to screenball, but the screen may be the chosen alternative. Whatever it takes to provide reasonable protection. As for the bats/balls question: Whether it is a used DeBeer 212 from 1981, a .52/275, a 44/375 or a red dot, the batted ball can do damage, whether struck by an Ultra II or a single wall bat. Fiddling with the bat/ball question is an indirect, marginal part of the equation. Hockey, baseball, football, soccer, all have examples of how protective equipment has integrated into the game without drastically altering it. Don Newhard |
| Oct. 16 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Trumpball , If your referring to me, there are only a few rules I feel are worthless, PPR is one of them. |
| Oct. 16 Foothills Men's 55 95 posts | trumpball Is it me or did your post referring to the 52/275 sales seem smug . No one plays ASA unless they have to. In most cases they would rather play Utrip . But , don`t have it as an option . In my opinion ASA cares only about girls fastpitch . Because , that is where the $$$$`s are . You can sell and like any ball you like . This is america . If the 52/275 ball sells then good for it . Should let seniors vote, at their tournaments, on what kind of ball they want . Whatever the majority wants , then that is what a smart TD would use .Senior softball exists , because there are enough of us , that want to play to create a market for whoever puts the tourneys on .If Td`s think they can force a ball on us , that we don`t like , I think they will see an inevitable drop in participation . I could be wrong . But , I don`t think so . Just because someone does not like the 52/275 ball doesen`t make them a lesser player or of weaker character any more than it makes someone the opposite if they like it . A 44/375 ball , that isn`t affected by heat , would be universally acceptable to the majority I feel . JB |
| Oct. 16 DCPete 409 posts | Raise the arc to 15 or 20 feet and the pitcher will have plenty of time to back up and give themselves more time to react & field batted balls. It will also make the game more challenging, but not impossible, for the hitters to make consistent hard contact. It will also make the umpires job easier as there will be far less "illegal high" calls to make since pitchers are unlikely to try to exceed these limits knowing it will be too hard to throw strikes above 15 or 20 foot arcs. It would be nice if someone at least tried this at a tournament before the game is ruined beyond repair. |
| Oct. 16 DCPete 409 posts | Raise the arc to 15 or 20 feet and the pitcher will have plenty of time to back up and give themselves more time to react & field batted balls. It will also make the game more challenging, but not impossible, for the hitters to make consistent hard contact. It will also make the umpires job easier as there will be far less "illegal high" calls to make since pitchers are unlikely to try to exceed these limits knowing it will be too hard to throw strikes above 15 or 20 foot arcs. It would be nice if someone at least tried this at a tournament before the game is ruined beyond repair. |
| Oct. 17 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | personally pete,with a mat to hit we shouldn't have any limit,ya hit the mat,its a strike.as a batter you know exactly where its gonna hit to be a strike,quit whining and hit the damn ball. |
| Oct. 17 tattooball 774 posts | The .52 is going right were it is suposed to. You guys are the only ones talking about it in the senior world. I just brought in another load of .44/375 balls, why would I do that if senior softball is planning on changing the ball? |
| Oct. 17 DCPete 409 posts | Completely agree Dog but whenever unlimited arc gets proposed (like we had in the 70's) the naysayers shout it down & think every pitch will be thrown 30' high making it impossible to hit. Would really like to see 1 tournament where they at least tried it for the pool games . . . |
| Oct. 17 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | I for one enjoy ASA, USSSA, and NSA softball. You have to be a hitter, actually play defense and run the bases in those games so I understand why some do not like to play it. I personally cant do any of the three but still enjoy trying. |
| Oct. 17 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | hey kev could you put more space between our posts,as i'll be accused of being your schill,LOL. yeah pete the good ol days,wonder what these composite bat hero's would of done back then. butch i still play with the kids in all of those,yeah sure is different then watching or playing in our hr derby's that some want.lets play some D once and a while. good luck in phx again. |
| Oct. 17 turn2 489 posts | Butch 17 You are right about the defense. The balls were really hot in Vegas and I bet we missed about 20 balls that were right off our gloves in the infield. Then when we went to St. George we were getting to those balls and getting the outs. We will play wherever the teams are going because we like the competiion. See you guys next year. Later Donnie Turn Two |
| Oct. 17 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | Donnie, Congrats on another great year. We have Phoenix left and thats it for us. Will see you next year. Butch |
| Oct. 17 turn2 489 posts | Butch17 Thanks and good luck to you guys. We got hot at the right time and had a few breaks go our way. Maybe all of guys can get healthy and ready for next year. Go get em. Donnie |
