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Discussion: Softball Players Association

Posted Discussion
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Softball Players Association
A lot of people
in and around senior ball
don't think that softball players
really care enough about anything
to make changes.
I know the belly-aching and the whining
cause I hear it all the time
but when it comes to taking action
standing up for one another
we as a group, tend to come up short.
We can get what we want and need
from TDs, Associations and Marketers
if we announce and demand who we are
and what we want and don't want
to see in senior ball.
I think it's time to organize
and form a group to exert more power
and influence in our own behalf.
That's assuming we, the players
really care about ourselves
and senior ball and I think
at the bottom of it all
we really do.
So, what do you think?
A softball players association
for 20 bucks a year
to define and work with/toward
true senior softball interests
now and into the future.
Could become a very dynamic and helpful
institution for all kinds of social
good.
What do you say?
Nov. 26, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Who will define these "true senior softball interests"? You? LOL

And what if the association doesn't agree with your obvious and very narrow agenda?
Nov. 26, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2664 posts
About three or four years ago Curt and/or Audie tried to generate interest in this. They even had a website. I think they called it the Softball Players Union.
Maybe they could explain further.
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Bruce,
I've very interested and I just realized
I used a name arbitrarily Softball players
association not realizing that SPA
uses the same name for it's extant
organization.
A rose by another name still smells sweet.
We can call it anything we want.
Please let Curt/Audie know I'm very interested in what they started
and learned from it.
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It's still germane to ask/find out
about if seniors are ready to start
and organization that would be of us
and for us in all matters relating to us
going forward.
What do you say guys?
Is softball that important to you
or not.
Will you just bend over and/or go along
with whatever self interested others
decide for us or can we generate our own self interest to counter balance
the forces that prevail?
What do you say?
Nov. 26, 2009
neck10
498 posts
why dont you let dirty run it then maybe he will agree on one thing?????
Nov. 26, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
The union idea has been brought up before, but in reality I doubt it would work because we love to play too much, even under the circumstances we face.
Unions are only as good as: 1. the members are committed to and willing to "strike". In this case to NOT attend any given tournament. < Walk outs are job related, strikes are valid.> & 2. the officers who "bargain" the agreements for the rules, et al, are.
Happy Thanksgiving Day guys.
Nov. 26, 2009
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Einstein: Excellent idea . If we don`t provide a united organized front to SSUSA , they will continue to do things as they please . Taits is right though . Teams would have to be willing to boycott tournaments . I think if other organizations got wind of this . They would respond . By providing the playing conditions , that the the organization ends up agreeing to .We would end up with plenty of tournaments . SSUSA would respond also . They don`t put on these tournaments because they care about Senior Softball Players, in my opinion . No one goes to this much trouble out of the goodness of their heart . In there defense , SSUSA does do an excellent job of organizing tournaments . They are doing it to make $$$`s . They would have to respond . This could be an opportunity for NCSSA to come up with some bigger tournamentsalso and see how the playing public responds . JB
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Dirty Gary.
You're right on time
signaling somebody's trying to do something positive and meritorious.
Thanks, Scott and Happy Turkey day
one and all.
Nov. 26, 2009
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Have to hand it to einstein, he continues to come up with interesting ideas, the latest being a “players union” to represent their interests (to whom?).

I’m a little dubious about such a group. When I was a young man, I was a member of a union. I had a documented grievance about being paid substandard wages (I was ignorant of the proper wage scale) while still paying my union dues. It was then I discovered how corrupt the union was—secretary on the take; unpublicized member meetings at inconvenient hours so the inner core dominated all votes and discussion; refusal to acknowledge questioners from the audience; no shop stewards in most workplaces; failure to take any action on my grievance; etc. What a disappointment for the son of a union member who had to really strike for fair treatment in the 30s.

As to this new group, be careful what you wish for. I know that if my major team is any indication of players in general, we would lobby to eliminate the hot bats and revert to lower performance bats, if not single walls, to return softball to a better balance of hitting and fielding and strategy. I have played on AAA teams that want screens to protect pitchers in all tournament games, that want a less lively ball to protect against injuries, who think rosters should be larger and prohibit substitute players in tourneys (in other words, stay with your own team all year). Are these proposals that einstein would want to implement? And remember, in a players association, it is ALL players who get to vote, not just the major+ super stars who love their 350 foot home runs.

And yes, most guys are going to play anyway. My guys may grouse at major+ players joining a AAA team for a tournament or jumbo hits by tiny players with super bats or lack of screens while looking into the sun, but no one ever skips a tournament because of that. Playing is too fun! Unfair conditions are frustrating, but fresh air, camaraderie, and exercise are too tempting to sit out and strike just because Ultra IIs make a joke out of 280 foot fences (or for einstein, the ball wasn't hot enough to travel 400 feet). The game is the thing!
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
OK.
We disagree about players continuing
to play the game and we disagree
about the value of a lively bat/ball
combination.
But this is cool and will stimulate
more of us to think about and decide
what's real and important for us all,
going forward.
Anything can become corrupt or overly
self interested but I don't think
that's the reason to keep it from realization.
Everything, the bible says,
has a time and place and this may be
the time to organize and keep all the self interested groups in balance
to produce a true/fair compromise
to the benefit of all.
Nov. 26, 2009
kbl
Men's 60
529 posts
just love to play. give me a field, a softball, good umps and 10 others guys to play and away we go. alot of fun and camraderie.

happy thanksgiving to all. ken
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'm personally tired
of all the changes in senior softball
that seem to come by the minute
that make our purchases and expectations
ephemeral at best given all the preparations necessary
to field a good team due to a lack of stable definition and to much catering
to the market place and those who're
trying to sell us stuff.
I can't afford scrapping all my bats and balls in favor of buying "the new" bats and balls, over and over again.
The cost of bats is bad enough
without the thought of not being able to use any of 'em
as we move to some new standard.
Enough is enough, for lots of us.
That's why I think we may need
some clout, some representation
to "get in on" where softball is headed
and what it's gonna cost
and mean to US.
We're not chopped liver or all sheep
as some have said about us, are we?
Nov. 26, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Once again Joe, why can't you answer direct questions? What will you do when the membership does not agree with you? Attempt to browbeat them into submission? Send them your famous emails?

Keep spouting while you continue to refuse to engage in direct dialogue.
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Gary
and keep up the good work.
Nov. 26, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
i'm with omar on this,union's are only as good as the people running them.i have been a steward for a union,that recieve no support when i went to the upper people with grievances.
who would run this thing,
why would they need money to do this,
how could you enusure all players in all levels would get a fair shake,
what kind of agenda's are you looking to push,
so far all i see is nothing but a whim on someone else's stolen idea.
Nov. 26, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Joe, you get less and less credible everytime you post.

"what kind of agenda's are you looking to push,"
mad dog, I assume that was rhetorical. It is pretty clear what his agenda is.
Nov. 26, 2009
cadogone
Men's 50
5 posts
I agree, it is about time for the players to have a say in how tournament are run. Less sitting around time and more teams at the major+ level. Major + teams need to set up a schedule where there is a minimum of 5 teams to play once a month. (more like a traveling league) Two team tournament is not good like this past weekend.
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Let's not forget the great majority
of seniors don't post on this site
but may read it or learn about it
from others.
Yes, a union would have it's own set of problems but maybe there's something
lighter but in the direction that might
do some good.
Maybe a senior softball website
with the ability limit entries
to members so any jerks at all
wouldn't soil themselves and others
as can happen on this site.
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Almost forgot.
Thanks, again Gary for punctuating
my posts.
If Gary soils himself on it,
it's got to be good.
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
When you bring up a good idea
or any idea with respect to some
they have a problem even being open to it, at all.
This is never the function of the presenter and respective merits
of the idea but of the dearth of thinking by the reactors.
Be careful of those who like to say no
and ridicule someone who thinks
independently of others or
is willing to go against the norm.
Nov. 26, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I don't think I ever said "no". I just want to know what your approach will be when the membership does not agree with your radical and very limited personal agenda.

And still, no answers. Is this how you will treat the membership?
Nov. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Cadogone,
That's the feeling I get talking with and playing with other seniors.
We know what we,
the majority of seniors want and
we're tired of not being heard
or listened to.
SSUSA is going to have a meeting in a month or two where folks can fly to
somewhere in the country
to have a vote.
How many guys can afford to do that?
It's easy to say the great majority
can't or wouldn't.
So, this meeting to be held
will not be represented by the majority
or or have a legitimate
majority opinion.
SSUSA has the ability to poll,
survey, find out between now and then
what the most of us want/need/expect
and that should be done.
Dave told me he likes hearing different views on stuff and that's open minded
but knowing what the most of us
or the soul of us want
is the key to effective administration.
This is not a slam on Dave
as I am fond of him and his grace,
intelligence and caring but
it's about us and not him when
it comes to serving the senior softball
community.
We pay the freight and
need to be represented,
the whole of us, recognized,
polled and served.
Nov. 26, 2009
softball1980
Men's 50
15 posts
Hello Gentlemen. Just what is it that you guys want. i am a new blood and a young blood to the senior softball world. i just turned 50 and just getting into playing the senior circuit in Colorado. ,but i have been playing this game for 30 years , and have played at every level there is to play in and have played in many big tournaments. i have also been a representative for ASA(commissioner)and now the new commissioner for the CSSTL in Colorado, and also been a player rep,tournament director, also have umpired. i also have complaints about things and even being commissioner for the ASA and CSSTL doesn't mean you can change everything. ,having a union doesn't get you that either but giving your input constantly could be as bad of a thing as a good thing.boycotting tournaments could get your point across but most TD's wont care because they will still get teams to show up and play because they love the game.now as i said at the beginning i have complaints also ,i don't agree with everything that ASA,CSSTL,USSSA,SSUSA,NSA,ISA. but they all have their reasons and purpose's .now i want everyone to know i am not posting to start a fight or ,make enemy's ,just trying to understand what everyone wants on this site.i am not trying to criticize anyone either. but some guys seem to be bouncing all over this site about complaining about the balls, bats,tournament sites,tournament directors. but no one has said what they want or what they would do if they could change things. complaining about things is good but not giving ideas how to change it ,is nothing but whining and insecure about your thoughts and ideas ,and to that i say hog wash. give ideas guys " not unions or boycotts" . why not start new associations or having your own tournaments, forming new leagues . i myself ,i am going to start my own tournament series, and maybe a softball club. not just for senior softball ,but for softball players in general. yes there will be rules but very few, the game is supposed to be fun,not corporate, but i myself am a very competitive so you need to cater to everyone. but you have to have some rules so people stay safe, reason for that is because today's society is sue happy. and liability insurance is expensive so when you talk about the high cost of tournaments it is because the cost to put one on is not cheap. and yes they make a profit but it is not that much. like i said i agree with some of you ,but i disagree with some of you. but we are human and we have that right to have different thoughts . so my suggestion to some of you is instead of fighting with each other and putting each other down . join forces ,state your ideas in writing and do something about the problems ,don't be part of them. and no it doesn't have to be politics( i hate politics,always back stabbing). so what do you guys say do you want to be part of the change or do you want to be part of the problems.so if any of you want to chat ,throw ideas around ,and try to be part of the change e-mail me and lets do something about it. Charlie softball1980@gmail.com thanks all for reading and god bless everyone and the best wishes and happiest holidays to all of you and your families.
Nov. 26, 2009
softball1980
Men's 50
15 posts
oh yes as kbl said give me a decent field , 10 others players (with decent attitudes),5-7 other teams(with decent attitudes),good umpires, good fun fans, great camaraderie,grills ,coolers . and what do you get . A FUN AND EXCITING GAME AND TOURNAMENT, AND MOST OF ALL NEW FRIENDS WITH THE SAME IN COMMON WITH YOU. " SOFTBALL "
Nov. 26, 2009
Eddie 12
Men's 50
14 posts
Einstien did the seed of this thought sprot from the manager of your Powerline team in Vegas? First let me state that I have been a union member for 27 years,and a union is "only as good as its members" not its leaders. In a union its "leaders" or executive board is elected by its members. One member one vote. Action or "agenda" is brought forward to the executive board by way of a motion presented by any member. Then discussion and voted on by the membership. Unions that use the parliamentary procedure are the purist form of democracy.
Nov. 27, 2009
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
A union for softball?????? Are you kidding???? Would we have to pay union dues to play softball??? I thought this was for fun. There is always going to be some controversy on the home run rules, the pitcher protection rules, liveliness of the balls, etc., but a union??? I have a hunch that only a few of the 'higher level' teams would even consider it. The majority of senior players just are happy to even be playing at our ages. When I grew up, anyone over 40 was a 'fossil' and was also a rarity. You just 'could not' compete at that age. Now we are all blessed to be able to play the game that we love at our 'advanced' ages. I do have a suggestion, though. If the feeling that the people who have organized all of the softball associations are not doing what the players want to be done, then why don't you form your own association with the rules that you want and see how many teams join it?? This would be the ultimate litmus test-would teams come to play in your tournaments with your rules. If it is all about making money, then you could make some money and provide the venue. Sounds like a win-win situation.
Nov. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
We already have it, Webbie and thanks.
It's called NorCal or NCSSA.
Look it up when you get a chance.
It's run by players, for players
and we are blessed and it's an example
of what could be/should be regarding
playing senior ball.
Eddie,
The idea of a union is not new
and I've suggested in a couple of times
over the last few years and yes,
John mentioned it to me
a couple of weeks ago and got me thinking, again.
I think the world of John of Powerline
and would throw all my support
to his efforts if he were to move
in this direction and organize us
as a group.
For me, it's more why we would have
to or want to unionize is the key issue.
We're not being recognized and supported enough and it's time
to do more than just complain or whine
about it.
I know very few players who wouldn't get behind a genuine effort to organize
for all the right reasons.
Nov. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Be careful, Eddie.
Democracy-unions-socialism.
The lines start to blur when you start
getting down to it.
We're gonna get a lot of knee-jerk
responses from guys who don't like to do
much thinking.
And if, as you say,
a union is only as good as it's members
senior softball, the great majority of us
would make and form a fabulous organization that would do a lot of good.
Again, I will throw and urge all support
behind John and any real effort
to help organize our players
if that's what he wants to do.
Nov. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Webbie, he won't do that. That would be too much like having to put his money where his mouth is, and that requires fortitude.
Nov. 27, 2009
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
I am not a frequent visitor to this site because it seems to me that it is dominated by four or five people who do nothing but complain about how softball is being run. From my experience of 12 years playing senior softball the majority of the players are just happy to have an opportunity to play competitive softball at our age. Sure, we complain about some of the rules and restrictions but, overall, we are just happy that these organizations exist to give us this oppurtunity. We acknowledge they are there for profit but realize if they weren't we would not have this opportunity because they provide the organizational skills and do all the "grunt" work that is required to run a tournament. My experience with both SPA and SSUSA is that their leadership DOES listen to us and tries very hard to balance competing interests. As with any large organization nobody is going to get everything they want. A few on this forum seem to think they can speak for the majority, but in reality are only interested in changing senior softball in the image they view as optimal. Creating a union is a BAD idea, but go ahead...I think you will find only a very small minority of soreheads that join. The correct way to make changes is within the system, for that is the way that will reflect, and have the support of, the vast majority. I believe the old adage of "you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar" applies; meaning, you are more likely to get change if you present a compelling reason than if you only complain.
Nov. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Not my experience, Steve and the feeling
of the majority of players,
I would bet my paycheck.
We don't get listened to or recognized
by the large associations.
They could do it if they wanted to
but they seem to have their own agenda
and will pursue that first
and like you,
think there's not much we'll do
or are capable of doing
and they won't go any further.
PPR and HR's as outs
is a great example of something the great majority of us knew
would never work for senior ball.
Had we been truly polled or asked
Terry and Dave would have known.
And you act like nothing's really at stake for playing senior ball.
I don't buy it.
Guys get hurt, (Bill Ruth)
feelings get hurt,
family's stress when Dad's away
for many of us and for what?
To have a less than time?
To not be recognized when it comes
to the important stuff that relates
directly to us truly enjoying our experience.
Were you at LVSSA this year?
Did you feel the tenor of the senior crowd as I did?
Players, for the most part
and yes, the great majority of players
had a blast.
You know why?
Because we played with and by
the rules/standards we TRULY enjoy
and expect when we go away.
That tournament did more to popularize
Kevin's MCT ball than anything
he's done to date.

And what is your argument?
Because people go along with it
it must be OK?
That was the German people, too
when Hitler
was soiling himself on everyone else
in Europe, too.
Or the American people before 1964
regarding 'separate but equal'.

I'm sorry Steve, we flat out disagree.
Life's too precious and becoming more so
all the time to waste on stuff
that doesn't truly suit or help us.
And I think that would be
a majority opinion.
Nov. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And Dirty Gary Sommers
our village idiot
puts the jerk in the knee-jerk
response I was referring to.
Thanks, again, Gary
and keep up the good work.
Nov. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"I would bet my paycheck."
Small wager, huh Joe?


So what happens when the membership doesn't agree with you, Joe? Filthy emails? Name calling? You know, your usual?
Nov. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Enter the jerk
in knee-jerk response,
on cue.
Keep up the good work, Gary.
Nov. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Still don't have the balls to answer pertinent, direct questions. Fifty line posts don't hide your lack of stones Joe.
Nov. 27, 2009
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
I looked it up, Einstein, and it looks nice, so why is this not spreading East? It would give us another option. Even so-I would like to play Devil's Advocate bit. I have traveled extensively in this game and played at all levels all over the country. There is a tremendous amount of passion on these issues. For pitcher protection, whether to screen or not to screen, that is the question. Should lines be drawn on either side of the mound and every ball hit between is an out? If it hits the pitcher in any way is it out? If a pitcher cannot defend himself, is it an out? I will wager that if you took a nationwide vote, no one idea would even have a majority.
One-up then a single, one-up then an out, 3 and a single, 3 and an out, 4 and then 1 up then out, 4 and then 1 up then a single, this is another one that feelings will be strong on and very difficult to get a majority. Hot bats, hot balls, dumbed down balls, feelings are going to be very divided here, too. You are never going to get one organization to have rules that everyone is in total agreement with. We have several different organizations offering different rules. The 'American' way is, the one with the most accepted rules will be the one that becomes the biggest and hopefully, the most fun. Maybe your NorCal will win out and become the tournament of choice. I say put your ideas out and let the players decide by choosing their tournaments.
Nov. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Unless the American way is einstein's way my guess is he won't be interested.

The worse thing to do is start banning balls up the middle, no matter how it is done. To change the fundamental way the game is played to accommodate the egos of old guys is patently absurd.

Use grat Ultras and Titleists for all I care, but just DON'T start adding in protection rules and screens to protect guys who mainly don't do much to protect themselves.
Nov. 27, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Webbie25,
I doubt it will be T of choice even thought about half the fee cost, (275-300 avg) for now at least. They do not use same ratings criteria or for add ons.
You may have a AA "rated team" playing with M+players very easily done. I have been on two teams that did it. Totally legal.
They also mix ages divisions but did a pretty fair job this year. most T's get 5-6 teams in the bracket.
A few parks are short at 265 and U-2 use there, is overkill, a few others are open fields. a couple places they hold them at do not allow U-2's. One great park in Tracy used to but I believe they banned then. Haven't seen a T on the sched all year for that city.
Some teams are what I'd call "selected" rather than first in with fees gets in. Kinda a like a who ya know who a.......
Not all TD's are the even close to being the same in placements nor are the 3 or so what they call regional reps on the same page.
But still good shirt tournaments over all. You primarily see & play the same teams that usually always go to the same ones each year. All play in their comfort zone here because player alternatives are wide open, cost is reasonable and travel in short overall.
Same guys are on the governing board year after year, maybe in different positions but the same guys. Sound familiar?
Oh well, imo, with some facts.
Nov. 27, 2009
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
You just made my point-the idea of one union nationwide, playing one set of rules just isn't going to happen. There are always variables. Passions are too strong to totally unite on it. We have to travel a lot to play, too. NM has only got a couple 50AAA teams and next year looks even bleaker. There isn't a sniff of a major or major plus team. We play the Drillers, Bulls, 50 Cal., over and over, and even regionally we would get CJS Express and Los Vatos Viejos in almost every tourney we traveled to when we go west(cheaper).Wish we had enough teams to do something here.
Nov. 27, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
IMO, the many assn's we now have are a result of frustrations of money making attitudes, the differences in some rules (which do vary depending on that the issue is), egos, attitudes and locations.
Overall, all are basically the same.
Just too damn many tournaments out there for the only 52 weekends there. Some of those 52 are pointless.
You have the locals competing against the regional, state, and "major" T's with some qualifiers that are really major ones in there and everywhere to cover the states as a whole thrown in.
It's not the game that's broke it's the system within controlling it.
The slice of the pie is what's at stake that keeps them in business and while some do better jobs at it than others, what hurts them all is there are many choices and the piece of pie is split even more.
Assn's really work against each other rather than in unison. Too many cooks spoil the broth.
Less can be more.
What ever is done, will be. Surprises or the unknown info upfront or mid game\term\season are usually non friendly "adjustments". Even if some cannot be helped which does happen.
You may pay to play, but no guarantee on at which level, how many other teams, or where.
Happy Holidays....
I ate too much, again...lol
Nov. 27, 2009
Johnny Hose
Men's 50
71 posts
Joe,
Well my friend, looks like we have some responses to our question. I sure wish you didn't have that dirty shadow clouding up this positive idea. And Eddie, thanks for watching my backside.As far as I can see, the issue remains to get the players to commit, the rest will fall in place. Maybe, as I suggested, get the managers to help?
I would like to hear there responses... like Lecak?
Thanks for sticking your neck out.
Nov. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
mmmmm there have been 9 post by the thread starter since i asked my questions,why is it you fail to answer my questions,afraid,no answer,what is your problem.
COME ON MAN
Nov. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The biggest thing I think
organizing would bring to senior ball
is a real sense of security for seniors.
The security from knowing what to expect
regarding softball
rules, requirements and equipment
tournament to tournament
year to year.
Robert,
an organization would represent us
at every level of senior softball strategy, design and implementation.
There's talk of having a website
where all senior stats would be kept
year to date from tournament to tournament.

I'm sure your experience would be considered helpful at some meaningful level as would anyone who had something experiential and positive to offer.
Activities and duties would be added
and adjusted as time went on to respond to ongoing or newly developed needs.
It could/would become in the hands of someone like John from Powerhouse
an agency of support, assistance
and influence capable of doing
a ton of good.
I'm all for it and will work hard
to help it come into being
if it's something John wants to take
it on.


Nov. 28, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Joe,

You use norcal as an example org. but it just covers locally with in the state of California I think. Let them go national like the other org. are and see if they could maintain it being run by players from evey where in the U.S. What do you think?
Nov. 28, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I cant see how you will get this off the ground until you legitimately poll every senior player, world wide. We cant just say a majority wants change.
You will need someone with very good organizational skills to pull it off.
Someone who knows labor law, corporate law, etc. There are far too many if, to just say lets do it.

Nov. 28, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Butch,
It's a very controlled environment, been that way for eons. Not of same quality ratings wise, but exceeds cost wise. At least to date. Most costly one was usually the one or two at a BLD park but then you could not use an Ultra so some will not like that. But fields are great. Cost for concessions being high was factor there too however.

E4-6
Nomination for Joe R. for CEO, Pres...
Nomination for Gary Sommers for VP, to level the field.
Whoops, they might complain on what the rest of the board likes regarding different ball\bat combos or rule. Then what happens? Back to square one, a stalemate. lol
So, I rescind the nominations...
Happy Holidays.
Stay healthy.

Nov. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I would never join
an association that would consider me to run it. (Thanks, Groucho)
Happy Holidays, Scott.
Coaching is way more fun
than managing.
Nov. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
taits,

That my point you cant keep bringing up a local assoc. and try to compare it to a national assoc. as they are two complete different animals. I for one think the senior assoc. do a pretty good job. No one is going to keep everyone happy and I'm sure there is unhappy people in norcal.
Nov. 29, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Butch, you are very correct on that.
I was only replying to hat your last post referred to.
A couple of things in common, softball and control.
Happy Holidays.

Nov. 29, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
taits,

Happy Holidays and look forward to 2010
Dec. 2, 2009
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
You have all pretty much made my point. Too many people to organize under one banner. There are always going to be people that are unhappy for one reason or the other, that strongly believe their own viewpoint and will not be dissuaded. At least the dialogue is open, but I sure don't have an answer. I do still think what we have is the best we are going to do. And Taits, I wish we had too many tournaments. Almost none in our area.We go to Phoenix, Prescott, and Tucson 5 or 6 times a year to play.Oh, well. Happy Holidays! Praying for warm weather (36 tomorrow) yuckkk
Dec. 2, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Webbie,
Your correct for your area being slim pickings. But quite a few states are in the same boat or don't have any at all, let alone teams to play for or with.
I'm in a conversation with another player on here and he\they have a like wise problem finding players due to the bordering states requirement. some states are quite small, maybe land locked or similarly restricted.
I suggested that perhaps SSUSA maybe others should open it to those within the nine geographic areas instead. Might re-arrange teams for sure, and no doubt CA and FL would oppose but it's an idea for gathering different troops as it were.
Tournament arrangements are basically a given, same ones about the same time every year that the same teams attend. Not enough teams in many cases, because there are many choices out there.
Have a good Holiday Season.
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