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Discussion: Teams moving up that have never won a Major Event

Posted Discussion
July 3, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
Teams moving up that have never won a Major Event
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND OUR POWERS TO BE HERE IN TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!EACH YEAR WE GET OUR TEAMS TOGETHER TO PLAY HERE IN TEXAS....EACH YEAR WE ADD A PLAYER OR TWO TO TRY AND IMPROVE ON THE PREVIOUS YEAR....THERE'S PERHAPS 6-7 TEAMS HERE IN TEXAS EITHER AA OR AAA THAT ACTUALLY TRAVEL TO OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY TO PLAY IN THE LARGER TOURNEYS AND PERHAPS 3-4 MAJOR/MAJOR+ TEAMS WHO DO!!!! I HAPPEN TO BE ON THE TANEL 60+ AAA TEAM THAT WON SSUSA/VEGAS LAST YEAR AS A 60AA AND WE JUST RECENTLY WON THE TEXAS STATE TOURNEY IN DALLAS AS A 60AAA AS WE GOT MOVED UP FROM THE VEGAS RESULTS!!! THE TOURNEY IN DALLAS HAD 5 TEAMS IN 60AAA AND 4-5 TEAMS IN 60AA AS A FACT NONE OF THE DIVISIONS HAD MORE THAN 6 TEAMS.....WHICH IS AS USUAL FOR ALL OF OUR TEXAS TOURNAMENTS.....WE ALMOST ALWAYS PLAY THE SAME 3-5 TEAMS AT EACH EVENT WHETHER SSUSA OR SPA....AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT NO ONE TEAM DOMINATES!!!!!!!!! OUR TEAM TANEL 60AAA IS COMPETITIVE IN 60AAA AT THE LARGER TOURNEYS AS WE WENT TO RENO AND PLAYED OK.....NO OTHER TEAM FROM TEXAS HAS GONE OUT OF STATE OTHER THAN A SPA OKLAHOMA TOURNEY....THUS NOT SEEING HOW THEY WUD COMPARE WITH OTHER TEAMS FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.....SO MY THOUGHTS ON ALL THIS....... IS WHY ARE TEAMS GETTING MOVED UP IN RANKINGS WHEN THEY'VE ONLY PLAYED ALMOST EQUAL TEAMS HERE IN TEXAS???...IT MAKES NO SENSE...WE SEE TEAMS FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY..FLA/CA/WA/CO/AZ/NM THAT EVEN WON THE TOC AND NOT MOVING UP IN RANK...OR WINNING RENO 15+ TEAMS IN BRACKET OR PHOENIX 20+ TEAMS IN BRACKETS AND NOT MOVING UP IN RANKINGS...HECK.. LAST CALL.. FROM RENO HAS EITHER WON OR COME IN SECOND IN RENO THE LAST 4YEARS???? DON'T GET ME WRONG I'M NOT BEGRUDGING WHAT RANKING THEY'RE GETTING!!! BUT I'M UPSET WITH OUR LEADERS HERE IN TEXAS WHO EACH YEAR UPGRADE TEAMS THAT HAVE NEVER WON ANYTHING BIG!!! THUS CREATING AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM WITH OUR TEAMS HERE IN TEXAS!!!! WHY WUD ANYONE WANT TO TRAVEL TO A LARGE TOURNEY THAT MAY COST THEM A $1000 JUST TO GET DRUMMED WHEN THEY HAVEN'T WON ANY TOURNEY OF STATURE!!!??? WE ALL LOVE THE GAME AND ONLY ASK THAT THEY RANK US SO WE CAN BE COMPETITIVE SO WE CAN ALL RELIVE THAT COMPETITIVE SPIRIT WE HAD WHEN WE WERE YOUNG!!!! SO TO ME UNTIL WE ACTUALLY WIN EVERY TOURNEY OR AT LEAST ONE BIG ONE EACH YEAR....HOW CAN THEY IN GOOD CONSCIENCE MOVE SOMEONE UP THAT HASN'T DONE THAT CONSISTENTLY???? WE ALL HAVE OUR GOOD TOURNEYS AND BAD ONES... BUT UNLESS YOU ALWAYS WIN THEM PLEASE TRY AND KEEP US RANKED TO WHERE WE CAN WIN...NOT JUST SHOW UP AS FODDER!!!!!!!!!DOKER
July 3, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Drop to 3 divisions from 4 and there will be less movement and more teams in the tournaments.
July 3, 2010
Capt Kirk
410 posts
Doker, I agree, the only way to compete is to form an All Star Team and then compete in the major tournaments. I reviewed the 60's mens teams ratings and most of the teams from Texas are now rated AAA. I would bet that most of the teams in Texas are league teams and they don't go out and do a lot of recruiting. In 2009 we played your team (Austin Lonestars) 8 or 9 times in tournaments. The world championship in Phoenix should be used as the ratings benchmark, if you win the world championships (99/100 times you will be moved up). We will see you in College Station on 7-24th and 7-25th. We now have two (2) more teams (Dallas Spurs and OOPS) that were recently rated as AAA teams. One positive thing is if all AAA teams are bracketed together, we don't have to worry about the equalizer rule. Doker, we hope to see you guys in our league tournament on August 7th at Alvo Jo Fisher in San Antonio.
July 3, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Doker, That isn't unique to Texas. I've noticed that many very successful teams remain AA while some who occasionally win a 5 or 6 team tourney are re-rated AAA and told "they are competitive." Any team worth playing for will be competetive no matter who they are playing, but ought to also have a chance to be successful (win) every once in a while. As has been said many times before, "They can't do that!" doesn't apply. They can do whatever they want. Are you going to Chattanooga in July? Maybe we'll see you there. Regards, Mel
July 3, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
WE ARE GOING TO COLLEGE STATION 24-25JUL AND IRVING AUG 14-15/SPA AND MAYBE 7TH AUGUST IN SAN ANTONIO...BOERNE 28-29 AUG THEN??? UNTIL PHX AND VEGAS...OCT-NOV....TOC IN FEB 2011.....THEY'VE BEEN MESSING WITH US HERE IN TEXAS EVERY YEAR I'VE BEEN HERE (6yrs) FLORIDA WAS QUITE DIFFERENT BUT WE DID HAVE THE HALF-CENTURY EVERY MONTH TO DRAW FROM....DOWN THERE!!!! AS I'VE SAID....JUST WHAT ARE THEY THINKING!!!!???? HERE IN TEXAS IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY'RE PUNISHING US FOR WINNING OUR INSTATE TOURNAMENTS!!!IF AND WHEN YOU WIN SOMETHING SUBSTANCIAL YOU STAY WHERE YOU ARE SO YOU KEEP COMING!!!! JUST MAKES COMMON SENSE TO ME!!DUH!! WHO KNOWS??? DOKER
July 3, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
I MENT ...IF AND WHEN YOU WIN A BIGGY YOU MOVE UP ...AND NOT UNTIL THEN.....AS THE REST OF THE COUNRY IS SO DIFFERENT THAN TEXAS....RANKING WISE!!!!!!!!!!!DOKER
July 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
doker why you be crying,ya get to beat up on us with no equalizer.LOL yeah have noticed the move up for us texas teams.we the spurs have been on a roller coaster all season.one day we can play with ya's then the next we get pummeled.i hope the tourney we finished 3rd in didn't affect our moving up as that was a falsehood.we were given 5 runs in most all our games and was the visitor for most all games,we got beat by 1 run in most of those games by the higher ranked team,or got lucky and held on for a 1 run win.
the texas state championship,we got on a roll and hit pretty decent and still lost a game to OOPS.
we will be a low level AAA at best for the major tourney's,even as a AA we weren't the talk of the town.
i'm like you and wish that who ever does the rating really do their homework before changing a teams ranking.
July 3, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
I MENT ...IF AND WHEN YOU WIN A BIGGY YOU MOVE UP ...AND NOT UNTIL THEN.....AS THE REST OF THE COUNRY IS SO DIFFERENT THAN TEXAS....RANKING WISE!!!!!!!!!!!DOKER
July 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
I hate to see grown men cry !
July 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Let's see if I undestand this correctly....we have played OOPS several times this year and gave them 5 runs, I believe they beat us 3 out of 4 games !We have played ED's Dallas Spurs 60 team several times this year and gave them 5 runs.......in Georgetown,
they run ruled us and we spotted them 5 runs ! I know every team has their good days and bad days.......but just looking at the above results...I believe SSUSA got this one correct !
Sorry guys !
July 3, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
I MENT ...IF AND WHEN YOU WIN A BIGGY YOU MOVE UP ...AND NOT UNTIL THEN.....AS THE REST OF THE COUNRY IS SO DIFFERENT THAN TEXAS....RANKING WISE!!!!!!!!!!!DOKER
July 3, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
KENNY!!! HOW MANY RINGS HAVE THEY WON?????????? NONE!!!!!!!! WE'VE WON OUR SHARE....THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO WIN SOMETHING BEFORE THEY GET MOVED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
When you beat a AAA team by the run rule and you have beat them several other times in the year.....there is a good chance..you will get moved up..doesn't mean you will stay AA...but a good chance you will be bumped to AAA !
Ed and mad dog are big boys...let them handle their own affairs !!!!!
July 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
All this yelling is giving me a headache..I am going have a Bud Light and Bar-b-que !
See you tomorrow !!!!!!!!

KRAY OVER AND OUT !
July 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
I hate to leave with unfinished details..I meant to say ,it doesn't mean you will stay AAA, But a good chance you will be bumped to AAA !

Happy 4th of July to all...and let's not forget what the 4th is really about.alot more than bar-b-que and beer....ALOT MORE.
July 3, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Good points by doker and #6. Give a team the chance to win their division before moving them up. #6, the Bud Light and bar-b-que comment, excellent idea!
July 3, 2010
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
Jawood.Good points and ideas.
But there are teams that play a very limited schedule-win every time they play but, don't get moved up because they play such a limited schedule.Example team A plays one qualifer-plays a(TOC)national" and then play the TOC. Win all three but don't get moved up.Same team has lost one tournament- finished second in that one in two seasons.Has only lost two games total in their tourney play since 2008 but has never been moved up.2 or 3 tourneys a season is all they play.Team B plays 6 or 8 tourneys is very competitve in each one,but play and win only a "National" and get moved up.So to say win your division first-then move up-is not a all encompassing statement.The association (SSUSA) rate or re-rates teams off the results of 3 tourneys a team plays. What if they don't play 3?
July 3, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
731 posts
Gentlemen,

You all make good points, but there is absolutely nothing you can do about anything that goes on in this matter. You can play the game, and lose by a lot in 3 tournaments, then appeal, then maybe you can get your way. Or, you can keep the games close and lose one occasionally, so you do not get bumped up. My team just plays 2-4 SSUSA tournaments a year now, and it makes for less worry about this sort of stuff. In most of our other tournaments, they just take the top teams and put them in one division, and so forth. We can live with that. In some tournaments, the director has rated us a strong AAA team and others as a mediocre Major team. Half our team is young and the other half could be ready for the 65's in a year.

Jawood,

After playing about 6 months this year, I am going to agree that there should only be 3 divisions. There just are not enough teams to play, especially locally. If it continues this way, I am seriously considering just playing leagues, and subbing only on a travel team once in a while. Also, the list of teams in each division is probably about 10-20 teams too many, as many of the listed teams do not exist or are duplicate entries. I mentioned this to SSUSA in an email, but nothing was done. Honestly, I am tired of playing the same 3-4 teams in every tournament, with the exception of Reno and the upcoming Phoenix Worlds. I am sure some of these small tournaments and playing the same teams over and over, is due to financial hardships for many of the teams. My team would end up in the top half of the middle division somewhere. 14 of my former players are still playing 55's for the next 2 years.

Just my opinions and observations,

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major

July 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Andy,
With all due respect, that is one thing that is wrong with senior league now.........everybody wants to do something else but go play ball with the team their suppose to go play with. I have seen first hand, when you go to play in a tournament, at the last minute, players have something else to do........where in the hell is the loyalty, not only to the team, but to yourself as a player !
We have played several tournaments along the way with a "make shift" team, because our "top" players couldn't make the NATIONALS, STATE, WORLD, WINTER WORLD OR THE TOC.
I know things come up with families, but when its the same old song and dance...maybe we should dance with someone else........????????
July 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
#6,we may have beat you guys a couple of times,but i would say you guys weren't at full strength,or the weather(wind) wasn't conducive to an even game.but hey we had fun and will enjoy playing ya's again.like i said we run a roller coaster as for performance for our team,no consistency.we can be a very good AA or a lo/mid level max AAA team.we all know what it takes to win a national.
July 3, 2010
JBTexas
Men's 65
266 posts
Doker, I also moved from Florida about 5 years ago who did you play for, I played 50"s with Hungry Harry out of Land o Lakes and Tampa bandits 55.
July 4, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
JB I PLAYED WITH RED DOG AND THE PALM BEACH STORM FOR YEARS ...WE WERE RANKED FROM 8 OR 9 TO 20-25 OVER THE YEARS IN HALF CENTURY...WON A COUPLE OF NATLS AND TRAVELED ALL OVER.....I WORK FOR CONTINENTAL AIRLINES SO ITS PRETTY EASY FOR ME TO GET AROUND....TARTED WHEN I WAS 50 AND AM NOW 63 HERE IN TEXAS....I CAME HERE 6YRS AGO AND STARTED THE TRAVELING TEAMS HERE IN AUSTIN...AND IT'S BEEN A HOOT!!!!!!!!!!! DOKER
July 5, 2010
LP
302 posts
to all 60's teams in texas dont forget about the 60's ssusa clubs and league tournament 0n july 31 and aug. 1st in corpus christi. smaller size field so its makes for a different game. but one that you can play serious and have fun. only a couple spots left.
tsinc549@yahoo.com for details.
July 5, 2010
Conman
Men's 50
72 posts
Hey Doke ... I thought that was you posting awhile back. Hope all is well.

Don't get me started on how they rank teams and how teams are bumped. A team I played with in 1/2 century was penalized and bumped to Major Plus a couple of years ago for being ranked #1 despite the fact several of us were not on the National tournament roster. We played and qualified for other teams.

Take care and maybe we'll see each other down the road. Now playing with Morgan Keegan.

Dave Alarcon
Conman
July 7, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Doker, we had the same thing happen to us from AA to AAA. Desperados,NM. We played one tourney in Vegas at 50AA and they moved us to AAA after a 3rd place finish. We took our lumps for a while, but learned how to compete at that level and eventually, with almost the same team, took 3rd last year in Phoenix. They move you a bit quicker from AA to AAA, I believe, if you show you are competitive. The moves from AAA to major, or major to m+ are probably more measured.
I hear a lot about the ratings. I don't think I would want to be the ones actually making the decisions, because of all the factors they have to consider. Nobody is perfect, but we ought to be thankful someone is doing their best to get it right.
July 7, 2010
Sweet P
Men's 60
169 posts
Doker,
Well at least your team has won a tournament in the pass two (2) years. Our team the West Coast All-stars hasn't won any tournament in over '2' years. Despite this fact we were moved back to the Major- Plus division by Terry Hennessey, SS-USA in April 2010. This seems rather biased considering teams that Major rated teams that defeated us over the pass 2-years, including one that double dipped us in the 2010 SS-USA Winter World tournament is still rated as Major. Our rating has been an issue for our team with Mr. Hennessy, SS-USA since we started as one of the few predominantly minority teams in 2005 and continues today. But as we have all come to know Terry H. is SS-USA and the true decision maker. Regardless, no one is forcing us to play SS-USA, though on the West Coast our options for senior ball are limited. Hope to see many of you next week at the SPA World in Dalton, were we will be playing as a MAJOR team. Ridge Hooks and his association reviewed our performance and roster over the pass 2-years and agreed we should be playing in their Major division. Hopefully Ridge, Terry and the other senior tournament directors will go back to working together to ensure consistent team rankings, while also reducing the cost of tournament entry fees, which are getting way out of line.
July 7, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Sweet P, Be careful how successful you are in the round robin games. Last year, we were re-rated right after the round-robin games and before tournament play began. The following Monday, SSUSA moved us up as well. Ridge Hooks is on the senior softball ratings board and works closely with Terry Hennessey. They DID DO THAT! Good Luck, Mel
July 7, 2010
stattad
Men's 65
178 posts
Since no one will say it, I will say it. Doker--hit your caps lock!
July 7, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
stattad,
Since you have only posted 116 posts, you don't know Doak...........WE DO. Don't ever think you can change him, he is the best friend a player can have on this board......next question.....or do you have one ?
July 7, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
As I always say, the majority of these issues would go away if Major and Major-plus was combined. Not all, of course but 3 divisions are all that is needed - Major, AAA & AA.
July 8, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Jawood-I also think a 50-57, 58-65 age breakdown would help, too. Eliminating an age bracket would automatically create more teams for each group.
July 8, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Webbie - Age is just a number and 50-57 would be just fine. There are already quite a few 55, 56, 57 year olds still playing 50+. It's probably the same at 58-65, although I'm not there yet so I don't know for sure.

July 8, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Jawood, If you age as I have (disgracefully), your thoughts on playing down may change. I'm looking forward to playing 65 next year even though I believe I can still compete with "younger" guys. Stay healthy, Mel
July 9, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
We took 3rd in Phoenix 50AAA with a team that had 12 guys over 55. I think the slowdown that we all experience accelerates in the late 50's for most. I find myself running just as fast at almost 58 as I did at 45. It just takes longer to get to the base :-).
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