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Discussion: Illegal players

Posted Discussion
Aug. 10, 2005
JTS2
Men's 55
88 posts
Illegal players
What is the penalty for playing senior softball using a fake ID to get a card?
Aug. 10, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
606 posts
I guess there is a fine line, but just out of curiousity, was the id fake because they were hiding their identity by using someone else's or another name or fake because it had the wrong age on it? The winner of one of the LVSSA divisions last year had an underage player last year, and I think that he got life suspension from senior softball. I do not know if he used fake id or just played underage.
Sept. 21, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
SSUSA organization did not like my response, so they deleted my response. Admission of guilt? Hmmm! They will allow illegal players, if it meets their pockets, as they did in my last tourney. They knew of 3 illegal players and did absolutely nothing. I wonder why$$$$$
Sept. 21, 2005
theFinalWord
7 posts
Duke, if you are referring to the Cal Cup in 55AAA that unfortunate incident was dealt with. Maybe not to your satisfaction but still not left unattended.
Sept. 22, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
I guess it is nice to not get deleted this time. Yes, I am talking about the California Cup 55AAA. If it was dealt with, it was not done to anyone's satisfaction. Every team was not happy, even in other divisions that heard about it. Since you did not volunteer the information, I guess that I should ask the question, "how was it dealt with." All anyone saw was that the other team had to spot everyone 5 runs or we could play 11 defensive players. To me and others, this shows an admission that there was an obvious problem. If you want to allow illegal players to play wherever and whever, then give every team 20 runs to start and that might just eliviate the situation, or just tell them to fix it or get out of the tourney. I am getting other feedback and everyone so far is agreeing with me. Not even one disagreement.
Sept. 22, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Sorry about my spelling and typing in my last message. I was a bit ticked off to say the least. "whatever and whenever" and "eliviate" should have been "alleviate". No one would know that I am great at scrabble. LOL!
Sept. 22, 2005
KillAbrew
Men's 60
55 posts
Duke, I was at the Ca. Cup in another division and was aware that SS-USA did try to make a bad thing better.
Even though the three players play in 50 they were all 55+. Therefore they are legal for 55. They at that time were no longer on a 50 team. As Major + players that team with them should not have been in that division. But somehow the roster was overlooked. But once it is done what would you have the TD do?
With the restrictions he placed on that team the team did not do well.
Really what was supposed to be done.
If your point is that with that roster the team should have never been allowed to play or to play in AAA I agree. But that is a problem that still happens at most Worlds. It should not but unfortunately it does. In all Associations.
The three players had been displaced from their now defunct 50 team and just wanted to play.
What good would have 20 runs have done. They did not do well.
Sept. 22, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
The problem is if we do not take a stand here, it will only get worse. Whether Russell won or lost, they should not have been in the AAA level. How do you think those people that had to sit for those players felt? But that is their team's problem.
Sept. 22, 2005
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
KillAbrew

What would I have had the TD do? First of all, they didnít play under those restrictions until Saturday (after playing at least 2 games). Secondly, they should have been forced to enter the Major division for their double-elimination round. They tried to pull a fast one and got caught. If the Kelly players just wanted to play, why didnít they play in their division? By his own admission Hennessy said it was a Major roster.

ìAs a matter of fact, I told the Russell Real Estate manager that if they used the California Cup Roster they would be Major and if they used their Reno Roster (without the Major-Plus Players) they would be AAA. (Terry H in the other Illegal players!!!!! thread)

But he let them compete with AAA anyway. Dukeís whole point is that teams that cheat continue to get away with it. Nothing is ever done to discourage teams from trying this. If they put a penalty with real teeth in it then cheaters might not try this. Maybe something like ìif a team adds major or major plus players prior to a tournament they must alert the TD and be moved up. If they donít alert the TD, and play with that roster, they are bounced from the tournament and forfeit the entry feeî. Once this happens to a few of the ìadvantage seekersî, and starts costing them some money, it might stop the rest from trying. Regardless, Iím tired of going to these tourneys and getting screwed. When I brought up the concept of ranking the players instead of the teams with Terry he said this in currently under consideration. I guess weíll see. Thanks for listening.
Sept. 22, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Hi Ken!

You got it right on the button. We all spend our well earned money to go have a fun time playing competitive softball with fair teams. Not to mention our time.
Sept. 22, 2005
KillAbrew
Men's 60
55 posts
Ken, I do not doubt that you are correct with what happened. But from what I know, TH did not find out about this until Saturday morning after the Double elimination had started. Should the rosters have been checked more closely before the tourney? Yes they should have. But then if your team or the other team that Russell played on Friday had mentioned it to the TD maybe the problem would have been taken care of sooner.
The comment you quote TH of was after they played on Saturday. Saturday, TH was playing at the other complex when he became aware of this.
Yes it was ugly and yes it should have never happened. But unfortunately this happens to all Associations. My feeling is that given the circumstances the TD did all that could have been done at that time.
Sept. 23, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Let's not drop the ball. I am sure some people are hoping this will go away, but it is not. We should be able to resolve this situation and not be blown off. I know all this has gone on for a long time, but at our age, this not necessary anymore. The "ring" kind of loses its value of accomplishment and meaning, when issues like this arise at all levels of play. I just want to play equal competition and get my monies worth and have a good time.
Sept. 23, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Duke/KillAbrew
Maybe if TH was paying attention to his prioritys first like running the tournament and keeping an eye on things and being available to serve as the TD this might have been handled better.
Your quote Killabrew was "TH was playing at the other complex when he became aware of this"

I say he knew well in advance but that is just my opinion.
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus
Sept. 23, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
606 posts
I guess that I think that it is wonderful that we have a tournament director that actually likes senior softball enough to play it instead of just treating it as a business and not actually caring about the sport or players, and I will not single anyone else out, but you have all seen that somewhere. I know that it was before my time, but wasn't that the Bob Mitchell philosophy of setting up an organization for the love of the game? Terry also has enough ethics to play on a team that enjoys the game and plays well but may never be able to grab the ring. I have seen plenty of directors that played on or sponsored the team that beat all the teams and take all advantages of other teams because of their position as director. We played against him last year, and we all enjoyed ourselves. Of course he does not get to squeeze in those after game gatherings that we all enjoy with our teams because he goes back to work for you.
Sept. 23, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Nancy Allen
While all that is nice and true.
What should be his first obligation???
To play or to be on he job as the TD.
Simple question.
Thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus
Sept. 23, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Ken,

Your last reply is right on again!

Mike,

Your last 2 replies are right on too. We should probably have you and Ken be on the players committee.

Nancy,

????????????
Sept. 26, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Did everyone give up? I know many of us will be checking rosters more closely, and I will be talking to as many teams as possible at tournaments now to ensure that this situation gets better and not worse. You all can do the same as well.
Sept. 26, 2005
DawgBreath
3 posts
I kinda of new here, but. I would vote for anyone except MK39. Every time I read one of his posts or replies I hear the sound of Fran Drescherís voice.
Sept. 26, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
DawgBreath
and when i read your posts it reminds me of some stanky dawg breath kind of guy.
hahaha
Now behave or i will call the Dawg Pound on you.
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus

Sept. 26, 2005
DawgBreath
3 posts
MK39, you told someone else: ìIt will be the old classic of saying one thing but doing another.î
Then you post: ìI am out and want to relax now.

So I finally think it was safe to post and you return.
Did you say one thing and then do another?
Sept. 26, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
DawgBreath
You sure your not a fox cuz you sure baited me out of my early retirement hole.
I'm Back thanks to Dawhbreath so no one blame me, everyone blame him when you get mad at me from now on.
hahaha
Thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus
PS: Everyone that knows me knows i am easy to bait.
hahaha
Sept. 27, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Till we get a ruling on how to deal with illegal players, their was a comment on how one person suggested to deal with it. If I know a player is illegal, than I walk him. It does not matter what the situation is, I walk him. An illegal player came to the plate with the bases loaded and said you cannot walk me now. I walked him and he threw his bat at me in frustration. I know that I would not want to play, if I could not bat.
Oct. 6, 2005
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Between the 2 illegal player postings and the "Snowbird" issue, there are over 3000 VIEWS.
Wow! Is Terry going to step in here and take care of this obvious problem? That's why we need to be heard.
Oct. 6, 2005
JTS2
Men's 55
88 posts
Terry is one of the main problems. He allows teams to pickup players that have played for other teams in SSWC qualifiers in the same age group, I know he heres these sob stories from teams that have had players injured or quit but how can you get into the business of deciding whose excuse is better and how can you be sure that the team is not lying. If they are trying to pickup illegal players then I don't think they would have any problem lying. This is a blantant violation of the rule book he signs his name to. If you are not going to follow the rules then take the rule out or quit making exceptions to the rule. If a team can't pickup players from the next highest age group then guess what? Don't play we'll see you next year.
Oct. 6, 2005
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
why have a message board if the web master is going to act as a censor. Its kind of a hoot to get into these crazy discussions.
Must be a Republican...........juskiddin dont get your shorts all up in a knot
Oct. 6, 2005
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
JTS2

You raise some poignant issues here. Obviously Terry should abide by the SSUSA roster rules. Every big tournament we have gone to has had teams that have added players or are playing down because they are short key players due to injuries or some other excuse. It you have to go to a tournament weaker than you would like, well, thatís just too bad. Then you may not win or place as high as you would like. But having the idea (fostered by Terryís giving in to them) that they can add players from the same age level and classification (or higher) that have not qualified with them in a SSUSA tournament, or that they can play down a level so they will have a better chance of winning is just flat out wrong. At the 2003 Winter-nationals he let a team from Michigan that was rated AAA play down because they were missing players and thought they wouldnít be able to win at the AAA level. So they let them play down and they won the AA. They should have come with the rest of their guys and competed at AAA or not at all. Teams that only play this game if they think they are going to win just donít get it.
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