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Discussion: 52/275 Ball

Posted Discussion
Sept. 4, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
391 posts
52/275 Ball
Playing in a tournament this weekend in Canada, we are using a Hot Dot 52/275 ball with ASA bats. The ball is very soft and does not give you any feed back when you hit it. All you hear is a soft splat with most hits travelling the 250 - 275 range. It is a bit better in the evening when the temperature cools down. The ball also really comes off the infield with abnormal bounces that are difficult to anticipate.

In the future, if I have a choice about what kind of tournament we will play in, it will be one that offers better balls.
Sept. 4, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
It sucks ... period!
Sept. 4, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
jim it takes a nice smooth swing,not a gorilla swing.i was hitting the 52 a couple of days ago and was hitting them out off a tee.i was hitting the evil ASA 52 ball,mostly.i have hit the worth hot dot classic+ which is the one you used and have hit that one out off a tee also.

were you playing ASA ball or USSSA..

gonna do some bp today with them and see what happens with pitched balls......
Sept. 4, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
391 posts
ASA ball / bats Bob and you know me -no "gorilla swing" ...LOL just try and hit the middle of the ball hard. Not sure that ball has a middle.
Sept. 4, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
yeah right jimmy,no gorilla swing,wink,wink...eh.....huh.......LOL

i made the guys hit the ASA version(trump evils) today(well snuck it in on them)and they did ok with it.we were hitting into a good wind 10-15 mph,and gusting to 20......but we were still getting to the fence,and one guy was using his gold est to hit with.i bounce around from the senior reebok,combat lady virus,and combat anti-virus for the bats i used.most of the other guys used ASA bats as that it is what our leagues are here.
Sept. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
was talking with curt hollis this weekend at dalton,and we were talking about the 52 ball.he had someone bring the first ones out to his spring training event the first year they came out,this was the first year i posted they ok to hit.he said the same i have been bringing up,his smooth kind of practice swing was hitting the balls out to 400',his gorilla swings were getting him 300-330'.so if you know curt,you know he his a very honest person,oh he hit 18 of 24 out......he also was using a broken(cracked)bat......
Sept. 19, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
DOG WHERE DO U COME UP WITH THIS GOOD BALL CACA!!!!....IT GOES NOWHERE ONCE IT PASSES THE INFIELD...YES IT WILL GO BETWEEN THE OUTFIELDERS TO THE FENCE(ON THE GROUND) BUT THATS ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE PLAYING IN SO FAR TO CATCH THE ORDINARY HIT THAT USUALLY GOES...NOWHERE!!!!!...I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE STILL PUSHING FOR THE USE OF THIS BALL!!!! IT SUCKS!!! AND I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE SAYING THAT!!!!....BUT I STILL LUV YA ANYWAY...MADDOG!!!
Sept. 19, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Not defending the Dog here, but I really don't like the air surrounding the reason for the dislike of the ball. 75-80 percent of us hitting the ball out today, would not be doing so without the senior bats. I asked this question before, why is it so important for 50 year old and older to hit homeruns. I thought we played for the fellowship and competition? Maybe it's not the ball? Maybe it the player? Maybe he/she just don't have it anymore to be the man? If a little leaguer can't hit the RIF ball out, should they change to a ball he can or do they continue to play because in the real world only a chosen few will be able to hit them out. JMO
Sept. 19, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
Pricer-my reasons for disliking the ball have to do with 1. The bounciness, and 2. The 'float' on the ball when it reached the outfield. The distance is fine, but it doesn't seem to be a true carry. If they iron it out, I'm happy with 330 for a crushed shot. The fellowship and competition IS the main reason.
Sept. 20, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
webbie,i haven't seen any more bounce to it than the 44's,so far in the last year and half(tourney and league) i have seen 3 hip hoppers.on the float don't see it in league either,i have hit line drives out.


doker i'm just relaying what someone had told me.you are a gorilla swinger,remember i have seen you swing.you need a nice smooth swing.also you might go and read here of the posts saying the ball is being used and they are ok with it.

pricer don't understand either,most of the young guy assoc have/are going to this ball.why not the senior ones........
Sept. 20, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
MD, Bob, you need to retract your statement, "i haven't seen any more bounce to it than the 44's".
Just drop a 52cor ball and then a 44. The 52 will bounce much higher.
Sept. 20, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
HEY DOG.... MINES JUST AN OPINION!!!! TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT....AND THANK GOODNESS THE POWERS THAT BE...AGREE!!!!
Sept. 20, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
bruce during play i have seen just as many bad bounces from the 44 ball as the 52,is all i'm saying and not all these crazy bonces people have said occurs with the 52 ball.at least with the 52 ball there are no real serious injuries occurring when someone is hit.

doker not sure what your problem is,but i only passed on info that someone had given me.
Sept. 20, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
mad dog, haven't had a chance to hit your beloved 52 ball, so have no opinion on performance or feel as a pitcher, and I do believe you that it is a safer ball when it hits a player. But almost everyone who has hit it remarks on its different bounce.
Sept. 20, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
omar i have seen very few crazy bounces the others say happens with this ball.and i have been playing with this ball since march of this year with the kids.
Sept. 20, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
mad dog, I respect your experience. I wasn't thinking of crazy bounces so much as a different bounce than most fielders are used to. How about the seams? Higher than other balls or the same?
Sept. 21, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
As an infielder, I have noticed no difference between the 2 balls in question ... Also, it seems that everyone and their brothers can't hit the 52 ball out! ... Not sure where you are coming from Doker.
Sept. 21, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
omar everything is about the same on the ball,it might be a tad lighter,but they have to be the same as any other ball as far as weight specs are concerned,just on the lighter end of the specs.here are some of the weights of the balls i have.

ASA 52 ball

trump evil = 6.5 oz
trump stote = 6.8 oz
original pebble grain ball =6.3 oz

NSA 52 ball

AD starr = 6.5 oz

USSSA 52 ball

worth hot dot = 6.2 oz

ASA 44 ball

trump rock = 6.8 oz
trump guru = 7.0 oz
trump evil = 6.9 oz


#19 doker is a gorilla swinger,you must have that nice smooth swing to hit these balls a long way,just what i have been saying along along and curt hollis proved that to me by his conversation with him.
Sept. 22, 2011
DCPete
231 posts
We've been using the Trump Stote 52/275 for 2 years in league play and a lot of the infielders say it definitely bounces differently than the 44/375.
And our pitcher had a routine 1-hopper bounce up, hit the end of his glove and then his mouth resulting in about 25 stitches.
Also saw a fly ball hit the warning track and bounce clear over the 10 foot fence so you can say what you want but it's absolutely a far different product than the 44/375.
Worst of all, the 52/275 probably has or will cause an increase in bat shaving, rolling, whatever as players (cheaters) try to compensate for the ball's inferior distance.
Sept. 22, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
But here mad dog says it is safe... well maybe for him. lol
Sept. 22, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
#19 and maddog-the fields in the west are pretty hard because of the constant dry conditions. That bounce becomes very pronounced out here. I had a chance to see it in person and it was very noticeable. It's getting close and travels fine-you do have to hit it well to get it out, but I could see the 'float' even when I hit it well. Keep trying.
Sept. 23, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Webbie25 ... I play in central Texas ... We've been in a severe drought for months ... Our fields are much harder than usual ... As an infielder, I have not experienced any bounces from the 52 ball that were out of the ordinary ... What I like about the ball is that it doesn't reward everyone and their sisters with "techno-homeruns" ... However, I have witnessed "the float"... Generally speaking, I like the ball.
Sept. 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
You know I have posted many times that a 'measured step back' from this technology would not hurt the game. We do see the bounce here. The ball is not quite there as flying 'true'. But, as I said, keep trying. We have had 1.91 inches of rain in Albuquerque ALL YEAR.
PS-Techno home runs are still fun!! hehehehe
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Webbie, I feel for you guys. We have had 48 inches in Cleveland, not counting the melted snow from the winter.
Sept. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
DCPete,if you have read my posts on this ball, you would have seen that i have posted the bat shavers get not advantage with this ball.the float of this ball comes from gorilla swinging,trying to crush it,as i have said before,you need to use a nice smooth swing.as for your pitcher,what would he rather have had,25 stitches or facial reconstruction surgery to repair broken bones and such.

again guys the float comes from the attempt to crush this ball.

webbie you said you have hit it out,think back when you did and what kind of swing did you use.as curt told me,the balls that went the further-est were the ones he took a real easy smooth swing on.

#19 same here,with the bounces,nothing any more than the 44's.
Sept. 23, 2011
db14
90 posts
From an former post: Did not wish to enter this nauseating debate but wished to state that i understand the issues regarding the quality and performance of the current Senior ball (Trump Stote). Little has been said regarding this ball and its relevant performance in the heat. No secret here that it turns to mush at approx. 90 degrees. Great for our Mad Dog spewer of .52/275 sludge. That notwithstanding it is a good, safe and fair ball in cooler temperatures and have yet to hear one complaint (other than the heat issue) in years on the tournament circuit. In fact numerous suggestions have been made to replace the Stote with the Baiden FIRE ball which substantially stays harder and better performs in the heat. I cannot or will not speak for the masses. HOWEVER...i personally hit several times a week with a large group of major/major + players AND included in our batting practice balls were many of the actual Trump .52/275 balls TESTED IN LAGUNA CA. FACT: the general consensus is that these balls are in actuality "garbage", performed poorly and very well could be considered a "limited flight" inconsistent ball. Solution: Select and play in tournaments and leagues that offer the down graded ball you constantly harp about. Let the others who enjoy the current standards do what they wish.....
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
All of the ball debate would become pointless if old guys could concede they don't need to use special bats.
Sept. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
db i have said the stote is garbage in hi heat,maybe you can't just recall.most all of the 44-375 balls will do this,the only ones that won't are the MCT balls(micro cell technology ones)which ASA found to be higher rated than 375 comp b/c of the soft outer cover area.that test is how much compression is needed to compress a ball 1/4".thus they banned MCT balls for their play.

as of now ASA has this ball(52) as one for championship play,along with a 44-375 ball(non MCT),USSSA has this ball as their ball,along with the 40-325(which is worse than the stote in the heat),and also couple of other assoc are looking into using the 52.

maybe instead of jumping someone who is looking for a little sanity in the game,you might try getting the clowns who need to use dirty bats(shaving,painting,rolling,etc)out of the game,they are the ones who have brought this upon the rest of us,with their need to be composite hero's.if it wasn't for them this ball would never have been invented...

also with this ball you could still use your senior bats with no problems.
Sept. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I just got to say this. How in the hell does a poly core ball turn to mush or get soft? The only part of the ball that can change during play is the cover. I don't think that is a viable excuse for getting soft, unless the cover has more than a 1/4 inch of material surrounding the ball. Education is a terrible thing to waste. Please take time to know something about the balls & what they are made from before spewing just incredible stupid comments. Sorry, just got tired of hearing the balls were getting soft BS.
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Perhaps they think they are still playing with Harwoods?
Sept. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Gary, playing with the old CN100 from Harwood & the Dudley SB12 cork center strung wound balls is were we all fell in love with the game. What the hell happened?
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yep, nothing like the art of pitching a ball that had flat spots by the third inning. :)

I have said it before, and so have you, it just seems like a lack of pride. Guys no longer want to face the best competition. They no longer want to have to earn their offense. They don't seem to any longer care if they play defense. Heck, with bogus "courtesy" runners they no longer even seem to care to run the bases for themselves.

I just don't get it. My kids, 4 out of the 5 have multiple varsity letters, just laugh. Not saying any of them were Bo Jackson, but at least they get it.
Sept. 23, 2011
tattooball
604 posts
A .44/375 poly-core loses 5lbs of compression for every gegree above 72 degrees.
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You could entirely be correct, but is there a scientific source for that?
Sept. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
You have got to be kidding me! Do you have the data on the compression loss on the balls used 5-10-15-20 & 25 years ago? What is the price of cherries in China? Is that supposed to mean something? I'm just surprised at the players our age who insist on pumping there own tires here. If you have to worry about those 5 lbs of compression and if it will make you or break you as a player. You need to quit competitive sports.
Sept. 23, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
Tattooball knows what he is saying. But the loss of compression at that rate would make that ball a sock at 100 degrees, knocking the comp rate down to right at 205 +- a tad.
Miss seeing you around Tattooball. .....
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Scott, he might, but I don't think he conducted the study himself.
Sept. 23, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
Gary, I honestly would not bet against him.
Sept. 23, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
298 posts
There have been numerous studies on the polycore balls and TaTTooball is totaly correct. Polyurethane is a temperature sensitive material. If you don't believe it try putting some balls in you trunk on a 90 degree day and then take them out later and hit them, the compression is really bad. As Mad Dog said only the MCT balls perform well in the heat.
The rule of thumb is for every 10 degrees above 70 the balls loose 25psi of compression, just the about the same as Tattoo's comment only in 10 degree increments.

The Hitman
Sept. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
You guys are missing my point. Do you really think I give a rats behind about the compression loss of a ball because of weather? My point was, you've got to be kidding me. Play the freakin game! What advatages were you looking for when you were growing up playing the game? Did you not just go to the ball park and play with whatever they threw out there? Unbelievable, just unbelievable!!!!
Sept. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
pricer yes we did,but there are a few who demand they have the hottest equipment out there to play with,or it is not FUN for them.and yes i have took the time and researched what i post about the balls,so i think it would be great if you did the same instead of belittling us.

for all who don't believe tattooball,he is the guy design the 52 ball,so yes he know what he speaks of.there also has been different studies by labs(BN is one of them)on balls,batted balls and the destruction they produce when hitting a player,and such.they were an open site at one time,but think they require you to join and pay something now......
Sept. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
MD, I'm not try to belittle anyone. My point is just what I said, I could care less about the compression of a ball during a heat wave or a cold spell. You fellas are the ones making a big deal out of this. Anyone who feels compelled to check weather before you leave the house to detirmine how far your going to hit the ball, has some issues. What happened to our game?
Sept. 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
Pricer-priceless!! I just go on and lion's den and I are laughing our butts off over where this has gone. You are exactly right that we always just played with what was thrown out there. Blue dots changed that. Up until I got on here last year I had never heard much of anything about compressions, or how these bats worked. I just knew which ones worked best. This is way too much information. Knowing all of this will not change my performance on the field. I will not carry a thermometer to see what the temperature is so I know if it is too hot to hit a home run, or too cold to keep it in the park. I refuse to give in to the urge to take a heat pad concealed in my pants to the mound to heat a ball before I pitch it. I will not let all of this get in my head. And I will continue to hit the ball as I always have---and celebrate every one that finds its way out of the infield!
Sept. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not to mention, regardless of what the weather does to the ball, it is the same for both teams. What else does anyone need?
Sept. 24, 2011
DCPete
231 posts
MD; you might be absolutely correct about the Bat Shavers having no advantage with the 52/275 ball, but until/unless they actually believe that they will continue to shave & roll & regardless of the actual performance, it just sucks that this ball seems to motivate some to cheat.
Just saying . . .
Sept. 24, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Do we really think it's the ball that make players cheat? You could be playing with a super ball & it would not stop the cheaters. Please don't give anyone credit for making a ball that would encourage cheating. It's a ball, the bats are the difference makers!
Sept. 24, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
dc-pricer,they were cheating way before this ball,in fact it started in the late 80's when guys started endloading bats.this ball does nothing to invite cheaters,they will continue to do so no matter what ball is out their.the cheaters ego is so large and they have little skills that they need to cheat to feel good about themselves.everyone says rolling is ok,but it is not,the cheater does this so he doesn't have to work on his game,also to be lazy so he doesn't have to break his bat in.

i say let the fools spend their money in thinking they will be able to hit the 52 ball better,by cheating.........they just don't realize a bat and ball combo that flexes together are not the best,one needs to be hard,bat or ball.
Sept. 24, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
My point was cheaters will never stop cheating. I'm done with thread though. We're given to much pub to the ball issue, which really is not a problem.
Sept. 24, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
yes pricer i completely agree,they'll continue to cheat no matter what they do in life.its the nature of the beast i guess,just take a stand whenever you can against them......
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