http://www.mikensports.com/

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 0 members ; 70 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Changes to the HR Rule - needs more thought

Posted Discussion
Sept. 23, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
389 posts
Changes to the HR Rule - needs more thought
Changing the HR rule to walks after the 3 limit for 50 AAA is fine when playing teams within your own divisions but will be tough for AAA teams who have to play M or M+ teams in an equalizer. We played Four Seasons in Portland a few years ago and counted 18-singles hit over the fence. I think we had one HR. Talk about boring! There is no chance we could field a team at AAA to go through that again.
Sept. 23, 2011
dMON
21 posts
I agree.....most of the discussion on this board is about classification. Teams should be able to classify themselves, but by allowing 3 HR's, then one-up in AAA, you are allowing Major (and Major +) teams/players to compete in this classification with no consequences (other than a walk) for a HR. I know many would argue that a HR should never be penalized, but if we are to maintain some sort of equality in the classes, then at some point, in AA and AAA, HR's after a certain limit should be an out, if not an inning-ending out.
This will certainly make our AAA re-think playing SSUSA.
Sept. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
dMON,its what happens in kids ball,should work for us in senior ball.personally 2 max in AA and an inning ending would be great,leave AAA at 3 with an out for all the rest.let M,M+ have theirs,i personally think M+ should be unlimited....
Sept. 23, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
Interesting. We have been playing 1 up and a dead ball single (walk) for 2 years now. I have never had anyone say they don't like it. We did try an max rule in the uppers in one tournament but it really slowed the games down. If you think about it on a 325' fenced field not everybody can ding it. Especially here where we get an afternoon breeze. As a matter of fact we get compliments on it all the time on this rule. Is it because you play with short porches? At our fields Temecula is 315' and the big boys (50 55 M M+) play on the 325' fences in Hemet.
Sept. 23, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1119 posts
dMON - Congrats! You're the first one who has actually gotten close to addressing the actual linkage between the roster composition rule revisions and the new home run rule revisions that was discussed at great length during the Rules Committee session this week. The overwhelming majority of players are opposed to any ball they hit over the fence in fair territory being declared an out. An almost equally large majority of players favor the 1-Up-Progressive method for excess HR's once the base rating limit is reached. Here's the actual linkage: Under the up to now current 'allowance' of teams being able to stockpile out-of-rating talent, who are the players most likely to be hitting the excess HR's? Well, the out-of-rating players, of course! So, in order to meet the desires of the 'vast majority' on the handling of HR's, team rating integrity is maintained only if those players most likely to hit the excess HR's are encouraged/forced upward in rating, hopefully with their existing team.

Nobody has really jumped on the 'roster composition' issue here yet, probably because not many managers want to go on the record as defending the former "Rule of Five". To do so would publicly acknowledge they are, in effect, stockpiling out-of-rating talent and quite possibly could be accused by someone posting here of sandbagging. The Rules Committee recognizes this phenomenon, and its intent, honestly, is to re-calibrate the definitions of what constitutes a true AA, AAA and Major team back to what they were a few years ago. The inadvertant un-written policy of allowing up to five out-of-rating players over that time has, for those teams that took advantage of the 'loophole', resulted in now having, in effect, three additional 'real' rating levels of AA-, AAA- and Major-.

We are most interested in now being able to easily identify teams that truly have the competitive fire and courage to compete where they belong (those managers who will keep their guys and move up to where they probably belong) and the 'bunch of short guys hiding in the tall grass' (those managers who will cut guys to get from five, or more in some cases, to the 3/2 limits and continue to 'play down'.)

Sept. 23, 2011
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
SSUSA Staff - thanks for explaining it that way. That about sums it up. Great job,
in my opinion.
Sept. 23, 2011
JamesLG
296 posts


I think the SSUSA staff is on the right track with the new HR rules. I play on a 55AAA team that is not a power club but I do like the new rule. It should also keep some heat off the mound.

Thank You:

James
Sept. 24, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
SSUSA- great job. This is just an example of how hard they do work to give us the best game they can. Some rules look good on the surface but when they are really examined, there are unintended consequences. I hope this rule works the way it was intended.
Sept. 24, 2011
DCPete
232 posts
Our team has been on both sides of this rule at past LVSSA tournaments & not surprisingly, you love extra HRs as walks when you're hitting them & hate the rule when they're being hit against you.
A better rule might be to make the extra HRs foul balls; the pitcher still isn't put in jeopardy and teams aren't punished or rewarded for hitting the ball over the fence when they've used up their HRs.
Plus it adds some strategy to when you hit your HRs and prevents teams from just walking up to the plate with their Ultras and trying to hit every pitch as far as possible.
Sept. 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
DCPete,that is a good idea,but you'll still get the same ol complaints from the ones who think they all should count.i have played that way and like it a lot.

james there never should be any heat on the mound to begin with,to me that is just an excuse for the ones who don't want hr limits.
Sept. 25, 2011
ChiPrimeMarty
Men's 55
65 posts
Here's a suggestion for a modified 1-up rule:

In AAA after 3 homers have been hit, my suggestion is having the 1-up rule appliy to TOTAL OVER-THE-FENCE hits. For example, under the current 1-up rule if Team A has hit 5 more over-the-fence shots than Team B, they are still only 1-up on shots counted as HR's. If Team B hits one they are even, and the next shot by Team A counts as a homer.

My suggestion is to count the total over-the-fence shots whether they are counted as HR's or walks. The team that is behind in this count will continue to have their over-the-fence shots counted as HR's until they go 1-up in actual number of over-the-fence-shots.

This could result in team B having more shots counted as HR's, especially if team A keeps hitting over-the-fence walks and stays ahead in the total count.

This may not seem fair, but it does discourage power teams from abusing the 1-up rule and just keep cranking shots with their U2's. It's a bit of an equalizer between teams with power disparity, and it re-introduces some strategy for hitting HR's without ruling them as outs.

I agree that a home run should not be an out. That especially sucks for the guys who rarely hit them. But at the same time, I think cranking shot after shot over the fence detracts from the game. This is a game of offense and defense, but the latter comes into play less and less as a higher percentage of balls are hit over the fence.
Sept. 25, 2011
coop3636
57 posts
I have never heard of HRs over the limit should be foul balls. I think this is a great idea.
If it is the 3rd strike, are you out? I think you should be.
This is probably the best idea I have heard yet.
Maybe some tournaments will try it.
Coop3636

Sept. 26, 2011
JamesLG
296 posts

We played a tourney in Washington this weekend using the new rules and every player I spoke to liked the changes. The HR rule did not make the games any longer.

Are the new rules going to be in effect at the Worlds next month?

Thank You:

James
Sept. 26, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1119 posts
The rules revisions from the 9/21/2011 SSUSA Rules Committee session all have an effective date of: November 1, 2011 and, accordingly, will not be implemented for the upcoming Phoenix World Championships. They will, however, be in effect for both the Winter National's (Ft. Myers) and Winter World's (Las Vegas) in November.

Sept. 26, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1005 posts
Staff you could hand out $5.00 bills with each HR and that still wouldn't satisfy everyone.
Sept. 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
has to be $10 for me,and dave standing behind the backstop yelling "show me what ya got dog".....LOL.........
Sept. 26, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
298 posts
Mad Dog

Can I pitch you the cookies and we'll go for $20 and split the proceeds?? LOL LOL

The Hitman
Sept. 26, 2011
southernson
254 posts
Thanks so much SSUSA, this is a significant improvement and is good for the game.
Sept. 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
sounds good to me,60 me-40 you,since i'll being all the heavy work.....DOH,LOL......
Sept. 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Come on mad dog-he gets 75% if he is good enough to hit YOUR bat for you!
Sept. 26, 2011
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
We have been playing 55 AAA for the last 4 years & have not run across many teams @ the World that would us their 3 h/r's. The game is won by base hits & defense. By changing the rule, it's going to invite the major players to move down & change the game. If you want the homeruns play major & higher & leave the teams that play good offense & defense alone. SSUSA if you change the rule, you need to start keeping track on how many balls are going over the fence so they can be moved up because they do not belong in AAA.

Agave
Sept. 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Freddie-read up to SSUSA-that is the intent.
Sorry we did not get to play you this weekend, but enjoyed seeing you guys.
Sept. 26, 2011
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
no problem Mark, we will see you in Phoenix. USSSA is a different creature, the pitching took awhile to get use to & some could not adjust. The way you were knocking the ball out, I'm sure you won the New Mexico State Tournament. Who finished 2nd?

Freddie
Sept. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Hey, Freddie-We beat the Boomers twice, 16-9 and 30-21. Boomers came back from being down 12-5 to the Bulls going into the bottom of the 6th-great comeback for them.
Freddie-what did you think of the balls they used-40/325?
Sept. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Sorry-didn't mean to hijack the thread. Everybody I have talked to likes the new rules for next year on the HR's.
Sept. 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Why should home runs not be outs? Why singles or foul balls? We get 4 balls for a walk and 3 strikes for an out. Are we creating these rules for more or less HR's? Who is it that we are trying to satisfy and why? Will the batter get another swing if they hit a piss rocket that is caught for an out, when he might have hit the ball harder than someone who hit a homerun for an out, walk or foul ball? If a pitcher can get throw the juiciest pitch to a batter and he hits the ball out after the home runs limits are met, we still reward the batter? This sure looks like this rule is really one sided. What do you think?
Sept. 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
webbie have you seen him pitch,took all my expert hitting ability to get good composite on the ball,he should be glad i'm willing to give him 40%........LOL........

freddie i'm with you,the AA,AAA should have the same rules they have had for hrs,let the upper's have the changes......

pricer you are right for the lower div's,i do believe the top div should be unlimited for hrs.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners