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Discussion: Winter Worlds Las Vegas

Posted Discussion
Dec. 1, 2011
d45
136 posts
Winter Worlds Las Vegas
Could someone please let me know who won the Winter Worlds in Vegas in AA, AAA, Major, and Major+. Why is this taking so long!! Thank you.
Dec. 1, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
d45-patience,they have had some serious issues in the office. All of them are working very hard to get the results out.
55AAA I think Gonzalez won. They were very much in the drivers seat.
Dec. 1, 2011
jimjoes-gman
Men's 55
80 posts
Ummmm , ssusa , could have swore you said Nov 28th ,period.
Dec. 1, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1270 posts
Nope. We said "...during the week of November 28th..." with respect to the Winter National's and "...after the Winter Nationals..." with respect to the Winter World's.
Dec. 2, 2011
Q19
Men's 55
48 posts
50 Major - Worth 50's

Avenue Towing took 50 AAA with San Antonio Softball Club in second, Who Cares (3rd) & Oh My - Fresno (4th).

NorCal Reds took 55 Majors.

60 Platinum - No Dice

Got some of this off an older post.


"Q"
East Bay Oldies (4th)
Dec. 2, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Here I thought Gonzales won from something someone told me and Just4fun double dipped them. Congratulations Just4fun.
Dec. 3, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Another example that Major & Major-plus can be easily combined ... East Bay Oldies (a Major-plus team) goes 1-2 in bracket play against Major competition with a fair equalizer.
Dec. 3, 2011
LeeLee
86 posts
Jawood I am sorry to say I don't believe the 50 major teams can win againist the major plus teams such as longhorns and EBO when they have their real roster. The better 50 major teams can compete but not win. If you were at the regionals in Vacaville you would have seen it for yourself.
Remember a major team can only have 3 major plus players on a roster and a major plus can be completely full of major plus players , it doesn't make since thinking that they are going to beat them.
Dec. 3, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Trust me, I know the landscape of the Major-plus level. I probably should have prefaced my remark to say the TOP Major teams could easily be combined with Major-plus. If not, the Major-plus level with it's 10-12 teams is not worth having. Regardless who EBO had playing with them in Vegas, some teams DID beat them and it looks like a MAJOR team did win the tournament!

Dec. 5, 2011
LeeLee
86 posts
I can see you are an expert on this situtation in the 50 major and major plus division, shot you got 566 post on this site. I was just wondering who do play with maybe we have met.
Dec. 6, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Jawood,you may be correct in some age groups, but not so in 65's. Major teams just are not competive with the Plus teams in 65's.
Dec. 6, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Jawood roster wise major and major plus are light years apart forget talent but according to what is being proposed you can add two guys from west of the Miss River a major team can't what if you had to make your team roster look like a major roster? If you did away with the STUPID roster rules I doubt anyone would bitch otherwise major plus has a big advantage. Think about this logically you want your cake and eat it to. Can't have it both ways. SSUSA should combine the divisions and take some major roster rules and some major plus roster rules and be done with it. What if the major plus had to qualify a player before adding anyone and let major teams have two players along the dividing line? Blur the roster lines a bit for both divisions.
Dec. 6, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
curveball, I must disagree with your statement about Majors not being competitive with Major teams in the 65 age group. From personal experience this past season, I played with Guru and Omen. Rusty's beat both of those teams; Guru in Phoenix and Omen in Las Vegas at the Winter Worlds. I find that the better Major teams are very competitive with the Major Plus teams. They may not beat them 80% of the time but they are competitive. In fact, I have not played on a Major Plus team that has beaten Rusty's yet they stay in Major.
Dec. 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
LARRY,BEING COMPETITIVE 20% OF THE TIME,IS NOT COMPETITIVE TO ME.TO ME COMPETITIVE IS IF IT IS 50-50 WHETHER YOU CAN WIN OR NOT.I USED TO PLAY ON A 50 MAJOR TEAM AND YOU CAN SEE THE DIFF BETWEEN MAJOR AND MAJOR+ .......
Dec. 6, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
Bob, I did not say "being competitive 20% of the time", I said "beat them" 20% of the time. I would say that the BETTER Major teams are competitive with Major Plus teams much more than 50% of the time. In the 60 Majors, that would include teams like Bickerton, Rusty's and Texas Makuli's, for example.
Dec. 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
even beating them 20% of the time is not competitive to me,to me it has to be 50-50 to say someone is competitive with another.
Dec. 6, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Larry, neither Bickerton nor Rusty's has beaten a Major+ team in double elimination where it counts; perhaps in a seeding game of which has no signifigance. The last Major 65 team to be moved up was Vegas 65's(a very competitive Major team). They have gone 3-18 at the Major+ level. They have won 1 game in double elimination(winning only 2 seeding games), and the only double elimination game win was a win over Omen 20-18 in game #2 at Vegas. The 2 wins by Omen in that 2 of 3 at the Winter Worlds, were won by 35 runs. Plus 33 runs for 3 games!
Get your book out and check your Guru scores against Vegas 65's.
We view competitive differently I guess.
Dec. 6, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Curveball, I think you are correct and it also applies to 70s and 75s. The reason to me is that the number of players available contracts due to injury, disability, and older age. The major+ teams skim the cream off the top and there is a big difference between major (which may not have any major+ players) and major+. It is customary in tournaments, because of the limited number of major+ teams, that these older super players play down 5 years against younger majors—and still usually beat them!

Not much solution for it. It is enjoyable to watch the major+ guys play at these advanced ages, and even when they beat you most of them are gracious about it, but you don't have much hope of winning. My major team's experience is less than 20% victories against major+ in our age group, but better than 20% when playing a major+ from the next higher age group.
Dec. 6, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Lecak, I want the Major and Major-plus to be combined with MAJOR rules, not 12 HR's, not 9 runs per inning, not 2 players outside bordering states. Bringing in 2 players will only make the rich richer, it won't help the Major-plus teams that don't have any sponsorship.
Dec. 7, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
curveball, you are correct that neither Rusty's nor Bickerton beat any Major Plus team in the bracket games - at least teams that I played on. We never played any Major teams in the brackets - only in the seeding games. You are also correct about the Las Vegas 65s. I know that we had very good success against them with Guru; after Reno, I think they were one of the very few Major Plus teams that Guru beat. But let me say this, I've been in their shoes - getting brains beat out by M+ teams while playing on a team classed as M+. I presented the facts to the powers that be and could not get them to move us down. Even back then, about the only team we beat in the M+ bracket was the Old A's and we had a really good rivalry with those guys and always played them tough. The Farm, however, we could not beat in bracket games. Go figure...
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