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Discussion: Why give an award if it doesn't reflect outcome

Posted Discussion
March 7, 2012
hitt2
354 posts
Why give an award if it doesn't reflect outcome
This past weekend we (ODB) finally got our awards for winning the SSUSA qualifier in Yuba city last September- a T-shirts. It appeared that they would be giving out nice sweatshirts to the winners, but that wasn't the case. Every TD puts Champions on the the winners awards. This isn't the case in Yuba city. The shirt says Yuba City Qualifier. No Chahmpions is on it. It is a shirt the general pop would buy at a tourney. When you play $500+ for the entry fee a better award should be provided. I will not be going to Yuba City to play again.
March 7, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
324 posts
We won a tourney in Cleavland ,Ohio and the same year at Quad Cities and all we got from both tournies was a hand shake and "Thanks for Coming" from the Tourney director
Be thankful for the T-Shirt.
March 7, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Jef,
In 2006 I played in Vegas We took 2nd. Team received Hats that showed
:
Las Vegas 2006
world masters
championship
2nd place winner

Vg hats but kinda hit a sour note in embroidery.

Congrats on last weekend win.
March 7, 2012
hitt2
354 posts
Thanks taits
titanhd
In the national event everyone is aware of awards being offered. If you only accecpted the handshake and didn't speak-up that's on you. I'm just saying if the awards is provided for being champion let it say it. The qualifier was representing SSUSA. IJS
March 7, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Hitt, I see your point, but who plays for the award? The achievement of winning is reward enough for many. Any award given should be nothing more then icing on the cake. Of course this is just my opinion.
March 7, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Yes, we don't play for the awards, but it would be nice if they just put a little bit more effort into them. How about the All-Tournament patches that never say the date or what tournament it was for? We don't ever give these out because with nothing on them, they don't mean anything!
March 7, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Guys, if you continue to go back what is their reason to change anything? People often only do what they are forced, or encouraged, to.
March 8, 2012
db14
90 posts
Hitt2...Just to set the record straight: (1) Your coach was awarded the shirts with the explicit option that if he/team did not like the ones provided the tournament director would have additional shirts made for your team. Also instead of the standard 15 shirts your specific team was given several more for your extra players. (2) Your coach/team was also awarded a plaque for your winning of your division. (3) Finally your entry fee was NOT the $500 plus as you stated but rather $300. Suggest you may wish to get your facts correct or at a minimun confir with your coach prior to going public on a message board.
March 8, 2012
neck10
488 posts
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 8, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
neck, tell us what you really think. =)
March 8, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
173 posts
Awards...Rewards..I personally don't give a s..t. I play beacuse I can and want to. Those other items don't even come into play for me.I dno't think the teams I play for even think about that..Just my .02
March 8, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
173 posts
"don't" I can spell, just can't type.
March 8, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Sure you can. LOL

Sure awards might not be the most important thing, but no reason why they should not be given. Do associations get away with treating the kids like that?
March 8, 2012
hitt2
354 posts
db14
You want facts. I was there when the guy walked up gave shirts & plaque. Shirts in brown bag He stated that he hoped shirts are ok there are some extras in the bag. Everyone was looking at the plaque, and the guy walked away. If he would have hung around he would have heard the displeasure as to the way the team felt it was being treated. He knew coming to deliver them that they didn't reflect anything noting Champions on them. So you in fact were trying to get by with these non reflective awards. The TD should have done it right in the first place.
For everyone else: It's not about the award it's about the way people are treated.....
Bottom line... If we put on a tourney and offered awards you bet your ass if it wasn't right we'd hear about it.
This is about what's right..........
March 8, 2012
db14
90 posts
hitt2 My response was to also clarify your incorrect statement regarding the fees! In addition your coach was given by the tournament director the option then and most recently via phone to correct the lack of the word "champions" on the shirts. On both occasions he declined. This was not a deliberate or vindictive act towards your team in any way. An unintentional mistake may have been made and several times offered to be rectified. I highly recommend that you or your coach contact the tournament director directly to clear the air.
March 8, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Again, Gary Contrary gives a couple stabs at SSUSA not knowing the full situation. Why don't you go to the next convention in Mesquite the end of the year and see the process. Or would that disturb your conviction that they don't really care? You wouldn't possibly want to hear they really put an effort into making things better. It would ruin your only fun here-being Mr. Negative about almost everything.
March 8, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
What singular "situation"? A number of them were mentioned, all meriting my post.

What "process" might there be? When a tournament is run, any tournament, some type of appropriate awards should be given. That was never an issue anywhere I played in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, would not have been tolerated. Why now?

Effort is great, but results are expected. What is this, tball?

Again Mark, though if you follow your usual pattern you won't answer, what "situation" are you referring to? hitt2, titanhd, taits, and Jawood all described situations that should not have been.
March 8, 2012
Fastsam
Men's 50
54 posts
Calm down guys. The shirts were wrong. But we FINALLY got them. And WE know what we won.
March 9, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
I make my point once, unlike you who makes your points over and over and over and over, ad nauseum. Your only real point is to run down the senior game.
March 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"I make my point"
If you only did........ =(

And I made NO mention of the "senior game" in this thread. NONE!
March 9, 2012
neck10
488 posts
I think you guys get a little carried away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Perhaps, though check to see who spoke directly to whom first.
March 9, 2012
neck10
488 posts
we won the northern championship in lansing last year & they gave us nice thin pull overs I thought they were nice other people called them bowling shirts,I have tons of softball shirts in my closet because I buy one at every tourney , but each one tells a story you might see someone you havent seen in a while.in phoenix won a little money,TOC two years ago like to have froze & were from michigan.its all a good time for me I love to go to all the ball parks & just play ball the players are all pretty nice guys have been playing for 4yrs now in thw 55+ and have never had a cross word with another team good bunch of guys out there really enjoy competing against them.
March 9, 2012
neck10
488 posts
Go to heartland we won that tourney the last two years not even a sponsors trophy.
March 9, 2012
neck10
488 posts
gary 19 I dont care you guys look like you are having fun trying to get the other one's goat
March 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
=) It is one of my forms of winter amusement.
March 9, 2012
neck10
488 posts
yea I hate this time of year we play in the TOC then have to waite3&1/2 months to start our leauge play it was 55 last thursday then 24" of snow on friday warmed up on weekend to 60 now 25
March 9, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
:-) Guilty as charged!!!
March 9, 2012
stick8
1261 posts
I vividly remember playing in this one mens league years ago. It was in the fall and we lost the championship game. One of those games that we were so mad at ourselves after because we essentially beat ourselves with error after error. The league director gave our manager a trophy that was scripted with "second place" and we each got t-shirts that said runner-up. I left the t-shirt in the parking lot and our manager proceeded to take his bat and smashed the trophy with it. He was a hot-head! But who wants an award that says runner up or second place on it?
March 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
stick, was your manager like 10 years old when he did that?
March 9, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
how about a t shirt that says Participant-----hehe
March 9, 2012
SLOBALL1
Men's 50
173 posts
NECK- Whih team do you play with? Please.

Thanks
March 9, 2012
local
122 posts
We won the Vegas Masters this past year and received very nice warm up jackets that said Vegas Masters World Champions 2011.
March 10, 2012
stick8
1261 posts
Gary away from the field he's a good guy but on the field it's almost like a switch turns on where he sometimes acts like a 10 year old. He was really pissed we lost and then when he saw "2nd place" on the trophy it just kind of popped the pimple sort of speak.
March 10, 2012
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
local: That's class!
March 14, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
980 posts
the all world patches are pretty pathetic also.. I don't even ask or want the things anymore... You would think there would be a nicer trophy for all world! Just saying!
March 14, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
If it really meant "ALL WORLD", then you should get a nicer trophy.
March 14, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Your right, swing, the patches are such a joke!
March 15, 2012
Wes
Men's 65
310 posts
Had some tournaments in the past---you try to keep the cost down when you can---option--do you have two umpires
at each game or do you gives awards??? If you run a tournament with 50,55,60,65,70 that' 5 x $75=$375 for
a plague or $12 x 15 x 5=$900 for a nice printed shirt.
At my last tourmanment I did both--umpires and awards and it cost me $600 out of my pocket--I do not tournaments any more----also you always have one some
times two teams that bitch about everything--if the sun
come up late it's TD fault-if another team is late coming to a game, etc
I do not do tournaments any more
Wes--passed TD
March 15, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
980 posts
Wes, I appreciate anyone who puts in the time and effort that you did for your Tournys.. Senior Softball is making money with all the Registration of players.. To Tourney ran.. I haven't recieved anything that would cost over 50dollars and have won three worlds and the all world patches.. I know that there is enough in the Budget to at least give the players who have won the world championship a decent winning gift.. All world gifts should reflect all world performances!In my opinion!

March 15, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Swing-maybe you didn't get those things, but reflect on what you did get. You got the opportunity to play in an organized tournament that a lot of people worked hard to put together. You got a chance to play in a tournament that the directors felt every team had a chance to win, including yours. They provided venue, umpires, a set of rules that frankly levels the playing field, and teams to play. We are all lucky to be playing at our ages. And we are lucky someone is providing a venue.Can you imagine the complaining on this board if we had no tournaments at all??? Oh, yeah, there would not be a board, either.
Let's get real, here. I just donated 2 very large containers of trophies to the boys clubs of America to reuse. I could not even remember the tournaments or the teams I was on. 44 years of softball-gee, I have been fortunate to play a lot. But what I do remember is that someone provided the means for me to play. I appreciate that. I have at least 25 jackets, 300 t-shirts, 500 caps, and the list goes on.
But, NOTHING, compares to the opportunity to PLAY.
March 15, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
980 posts
Webbie, you are correct in saying the most important thing is to play the game at all of our advanced ages... I have stated I will be giving away my patches and All world awards to others who haven't had that opportunity because#1 I'm a nice guy, #2 The award itself is not reflective of the effort in my opinion. I will continue to play because I love this game and play it for free and pay to play!

I just think USA and SPA NCA should step up their awards.. I know for a fact this would not brake the bank. It has nothing to do with why I play.. I play to get the respect of my team and opposition! That's how and why I play! FYI
March 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
swing, so you are not a proponent of Herman Edwards?
March 16, 2012
boston
297 posts
I enjoy playing softball and it doesn't matter if I play with the kids or seniors. I believe senior softball does take advantage of the fact that guys like Webbie are always saying I play for the love of the game. I see this statement as a reason for senior softball to raise tourney prices and give you nothing in return but the joy of playing the game. My wife and I had this discussion 2 yrs ago after my team came in 3rd at Worlds. I received a medal worth about $5. My wife was looking for another t-shirt or sweatshirt for her wardrobe.
We also discussed the ring tourney situation. She was shocked to find out that we play for the opportunity to buy a ring. Her comeback was "Why don't you give me the $500 you use to play and I will buy you a ring." I played only 1 sanctioned tourney last yr. Just to qualify for Worlds and my team didn't go to Worlds. Did I miss Worlds, yes. Did I miss not going to several ring tourneys or other qualifiers? Not at all. I played in local senior tourneys and USSSA tourneys. Played in senior league and USSSA mens and coed leagues. saved tons of money and got my softball fix playing about 160 games. Have a great day. Webbie still Love you man
March 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
boston, you are blessed with a wise and perceptive wife.
March 16, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
It is a business, Tony. When you take into account all the expenses, I really don't think they are becoming the 1% by doing this. Just for grins, 3rd place got 5 dollar medals. Thats 50's, 4 divisions,.. 55's 4 divisions, etc. -lets see, through 75's that is 24 teams of 16 players each 384 times $5 is $1920 dollars for only the third place medals, and of course we expect the 2nd and 1st place awards to be better. That plus field rental, insurance, directors salary, umpires pay, equipment (balls) etc. promotion, work setting up hotels, etc. and yes I know they get money from them, too, but I still think what we get is well worth it.
If it really made so much money, why aren't more associations out there competing with them? Simple economics says there would be many more organizations.
March 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Good businesses take care of their customers. They know without them there is no business. Quite a simple, though in today's society long-forgotten, concept.

Mark, are you a professional shill, or just do this for a hobby?
March 17, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
That's the best you can come up with, Gary? Pathetic.
March 17, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Excellence need not be improved upon. =)
March 17, 2012
Wes
Men's 65
310 posts
In most cases SSUSA & SPA do not put any money into the
tournaments, in fact a TD must pay them a fee for each
team. They sponsor some of the big tournaments but most
tournaments are paid for by your fee or out of the TD's
pocket.
March 17, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Wes, that might very well be true but somehow in the 70s and 80s tournaments were able to provide awards. Often not just team awards but individual for at least first and second places as well.

Sure costs have risen, but so have entry fees.
March 18, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
Gary, what awards from the 70's and 80's that you earned would be good examples of how Associations (businesses) take care of their customers. Which major tournaments do you remember going to that gave the best awards? Which of these awards if any are you still using?
March 18, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Bomber, no one really "uses" a trophy or plaque. Might a shirt or jacket. No one really uses the Heisman trophy, but I bet the guys are glad they receive a physical award and not just the designation.

Awards for multiple reasons (team winner and runner-up, individual winner and runner-up, MVP, best defensive, all-tourney) were given routinely at most every local tournament in these parts back then.
March 18, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
You missed my question. Because you are so critical of todays tournament prizes, or lack of them, what tournaments did you play in back in the day and name some of them with the prizes you won. How were they different back then from todays gifts of jackets, caps, gear bags, gloves, metals, and patches.
March 18, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
(a) a BUNCH of guys talked about poor, or non-existent, awards. But if you want to pick on me, fine.

(b) my understanding is many/most senior tournaments today don't provide nearly the awards you referenced. Some? Perhaps. Most? Doesn't seem that way from reading this.

(c) I referred to local tournaments in my area (Northeast Ohio) in which in the 70s and 80s you could find at least a 16-team tournament within 50 miles or my home literally every weekend from 1975 to 1985. These included Maple Heights, Bedford, Brecksville, Kent, Warren, Eastlake, Cleveland, Parma, Willoughby, Euclid, and so on. All municipally-run tournaments where usually trophies and/or plaques would be awarded in most if not all of the categories mentioned earlier.
March 18, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Bomber--as usual Gary ducks the question and criticizes. That is all he is here for anyway.
But I will clarify for him and include things he wouldn't really want to see here that explains things--back in the 70-s and 80's they only had one or maybe 2 divisions and everybody played in them. Tournaments were 30-40 or more teams very often. Therefore, they could get nicer awards because there were so few awards to be bought. I have literally hundreds of T-shirts and caps from tournaments, probably 25 jackets- most of which will be donated this year to organizations that help the needy, and I have given many bat bags away. I already gave 2 large containers of old trophies to the boys and girls clubs of America so they could distribute them. There really are a select few awards that really mean a lot. But playing, especially at this age is what I enjoy the most-and meeting more and more players.
I also want to thank all of the New Mexico players in Phoenix this weekend that came over to me to wish me well playing Major Plus with GSF. Guys from the Lazers, Boomers, etc.--it meant a whole lot to me.
March 20, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
So then it sounds like the simple solution is fewer divisions, and fewer age groups, which many have advocated.
March 20, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
If you still played much, you would have realized it is a lot different at older ages. There is a huge difference going from 50 to 55 to 60-I have seen that personally. Maybe the 50-57, 58-64 bracket might work, but it is good the way it is. And, maybe the Major Plus could be combine with Major, but for the most part I agree--FROM EXPERIENCE, that they do pretty well with it. But you wouldn't understand.
Nice post, Gary-"My understanding is"--means, I don't know,I don't play, but I'm going to butt in anyway.
March 20, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
980 posts
Webbie, A $2.oo all world patch is pretty pathetic in most books.. don't you think that the two top teams all world players are not deserving of more than a two dollar patch?
March 21, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
What would be a good reward to you? I'm just curious.
March 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
While the true nationals might be very nice events, if "it is good the way it is" there would not be nearly as many 5 team brackets with the same teams over and over that you find at most local tournaments.

No real reason not to go to 50-57 and 58-64, with only two classifications, except not as many guys would be able to go home telling the grandkids they won. And this might create enough money in the budgets for real awards.
March 21, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
980 posts
Webbie, I think a ZR1 Vette would do the trick! Just kidding! I think a plaque that some one spent more than $10 on would do the trick... doesn't have to break the bank, but come on, those patches are pathetic!
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