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| Oct. 17, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: LV World Tournament Discussion Dave, splitting up the super large brackets into smaller pods is a good idea. The bracket might look similar to the NCAA basketball bracket. When splitting up the teams into different pods, consider which teams won tournaments during the year and divide them equally into the different pods. Also, you might want to consider limiting how many teams can play in each division so it is easier to plan. Maybe only 48 teams can play in the tournament and TOC winners should get an automatic spot in the bracket...if they want it. I am sure you guys will figure out something. Thanks for the reply. |
| Oct. 16, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: LV World Tournament Discussion The format works OK when there are 10-12 teams, but not with 49 teams. A 49 team bracket makes the losers bracket too big. If you add more teams then the losers bracket just gets larger. Having teams play 14-16 games in 3 days is too many games. Plus having teams play until 1:15am and then start their next game in 6 1/2 hours later is excessive. I am not a bracket expert, but there has got to be a better way. JMO |
| Oct. 15, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: AAA Home Runs Gary19: homers are not the only gauge of an individual players strength, but it is a huge component when determining a teams strength. I know this might come as a surprise to you, but the HR is the greatest weapon in softball. It is such an important part of the game that SS has put limits on how many HR's teams can hit in each game. SS has spent countless hours analyzing it and debating the HR rules and I think they got it wrong. In AAA it should be 3 HR's, then the 1 up rule, then outs. |
| Oct. 15, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: AAA Home Runs SSUSA Staff: Thanks for the info about the card. Does the umpire also list the player that hit the HR or just the quantity of HR's hit per team? |
| Oct. 14, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: AAA Home Runs I dont think the level of play has increased, but there are more teams. I dont see anyone getting faster or stronger as we age. In LV the balls really fly in the dry climate and the wind. Maybe the ball was too lively for that type of tournament. A few of the teams I was watching in LV were definitely not your average 50AAA team. I was watching a team that was filled with huge guys that were hitting HR after HR. There was one guy we referred to as Shaq. We watched him hit 5 HR's in a game, plus they had 3 other guys that hit multiple HR's. SS needs to do a better job of gauging the talent of each team and do a better job of putting teams in the correct division. Somehow there are teams that get loaded with HR hitters. I think SS needs to keep records of HR's including the HR's that are walks. Bottom line: Any AAA team that hits 18 in one game are sandbaggers and they should get moved up. If teams are consistently hitting 5-8 HR's per game then I think they are a majors team. Teams that hit 3-5 HR's should be AAA. |
| Oct. 14, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: What we got for winning National Championship Skip_6, If they were giving away bat bags I am sure it was the miniature backpack bag we got for winning a TOC in CA. My team donated ours to a local tee-ball team because nobody on my team had any use for such a small bag. The tee-ball team loved them. The practice of giving winning teams ridiculously cheap prizes irritates me. This issue has been discussed on this board a few times, so whenever a new thread is started I like to post my ideas. Here are my suggestions for tournament prizes. I have posted these before, but I still like the ideas and maybe SS will get the clue. • Every tournament has a logo. How about the champions get a nice hat (not a super cheap throwaway hat) with an embroidered logo for the tournament and the year. The hat cannot be bought, it must be won. • A good quality shirt with the an embroidered tournament logo and the year on it. The shirt cannot be bought, it must be won. • $10-20 coupon to purchase what we want from the softball truck. Let us combine our coupons to buy a team bat or give the coupons to the MVP of our team and let him buy whatever he wants off the truck. • For those that like the bling...keep the ring option available. If enough people complain maybe they will make some changes. |
| Oct. 11, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: AAA Home Runs I saw a 50AAA team hit 18 HR's in a game. Most of the HR's were way over the fence. One guy had 5 HR's and I think he could hit HR's out of the Grand Canyon. I saw plenty of other teams hitting 10+ HR's during the tournament in LV and I dont see them as a AAA team. If teams can hit 18 HR's per game then they should be playing in Majors or M+, not AAA. My team played 11 games and we only hit 18 for the entire tournament (11 games). I dont like the walk rule after 3 HR's...in fact I hate it. I like 3 HR's, then 1 up rule, then outs. Allowing HR's to be walks is another advantage for the teams that produce most of their runs off HR's. It feeds into the concept that SS is all about hitting HR's while discounting the importance of fielding, base running, physical endurance and base hits. We use nuclear powered bats, we hit super balls, we have unlimited pinch runners, plus players get to hit and they dont need to play the field...ever. Obviously the game is geared for hitting HR's. Why do the homerun hitters need another advantage? If SS is just going to be a HR hitting contest then get rid of the fielders and the bases. JMO |
| Oct. 11, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: LV World Tournament Discussion stick8, I did not post anything about "wives and girlfriends". 17Black posted that, so 17Black can defend his post. Maybe you guys could debate this issue somewhere else like Facebook or Twitter. I dont think it is wise or necessary to tell other guys how to handle their wives or girlfriends, so I wont comment on this issue. Plus it won't resolve anything in this discussion. |
| Oct. 10, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Is SSUSA trying to go too far? Is SSUSA trying to go too far? No Did they have some problems in LV? Yes Did they push to hard? No, SS got pushed too hard by so many teams entering the tournament so late. I think 125 teams entered in the last week of registration which is a lot more than they anticipated. My guess is SS thought they had this under control...until the 125 extra teams registered. LV was an enormous undertaking for the organizers and they may have bitten off more than they can chew, but they got it done. Keep in mind that a SS tournament this large is new and it is evolving. Q. Before SS, where did senior softball ballplayers play? A. We played against the kids or we quit. Let's be happy we have a place to play. Also, let's be realistic. SS is a BUSINESS and businesses are created to make MONEY. Making money is not a crime. There have been lots of complaints about umpires. My guess is SS probably had to import extra umpires at the last minute. Plus they worked the crap out of all the umpires because the field of teams grew so much and so fast. BTW, umpires are going to make mistakes, it has always been this way and it will never change. I have been critical of some of the scheduling and I think they needed to hear it. I think they do need to work on some issues and they probably know it. I think it could run better but they are on the right track. I wasn't happy about everything that happened in LV, but overall I still had fun. It would be a lot more constructive if more people would offer solutions and help rather than just complain. |
| Oct. 9, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: LV World Tournament Discussion Gary19, I am assuming some of the best teams in the world would bring some of the best pitchers in the world. The games ran late all 3 days anyway. Besides, the pitchers are not trying to speed up the games, they are trying to get you out...no matter how long it takes. BTW, have you ever played softball in LV? Often the wind blows 20-40 mph and the pitchers are lucky to throw strikes on 40% of their pitches. I liked someones idea of using the 3-2 in some qualifiers as a test. Plus look at the benefits of the 3-2. There would be more innings played...creating more AB's...which would lead to more HR's...which would make everyone happier. As SS gets bigger it will need to evolve in order to accommodate the hoards of teams that want to play a big time tournament in LV. Speeding up the games will take smart rule changes, a well organized tournament with good umpiring. |
| Oct. 8, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: LV World Tournament Discussion The 3-2 count is used almost everywhere I play and it speeds up the game. I like it. Umpires need to keep track of HR's...accurately. It really slows the game when teams argue about how many HR's were hit. Taking 5 minutes to sort it out is not necessary. The "Rock" seems like a good ball, but other balls we have used seem ok too. They gave us 6 balls for the entire tournament. How can you make 6 balls last more than a few games is beyond me. Teams should get 2 balls each for every game they play. Also, the winning team should be awarded all the leftover game balls...if the loser is knocked out of the tournament. The amount of games and the amount of teams needs to be examined to determine how to run the tournament. If they keep it a 2 game knockout and allow 60-70 teams to enter, then the loser bracket becomes impossible due to the quantity of games needed to survive. It was impossible with 49 teams. I doubt there are many teams that want to play more than 12 games in a tournament. I suggest SSUSA consult with organizations that manage huge tournaments and get ideas from them. |
| Oct. 8, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: LV World Tournament Discussion I got back from LV today after a grueling tournament, took a 4 hour nap and now I am wide awake. My team played in the 50AAA division with 49 teams. We started our day with the 8am game and Friday morning the games seems to go OK. We were instructed to we could get our afternoon game assignment at 2pm at Shadowrock. When we arrived at Shadowrock there was a lot of confusion and no schedule posted. I didnt know what was taking so long, but all I saw was 1 director tying to figure out the seeding, while on a cell phone, with about 1000 guys milling around and trying to get an answer as to what is next. The method for calculating the seeding seemed like it was just paper and pencil...no computers. The director was beyond stressed, but he worked his butt off and finally got it done. The afternoon games were scheduled to start at 3pm, but started about 90 min late due to the late seeding. This meant all the games would run late for the rest of the day. Our 8pm game started after 9pm and we finished up at 10:30pm to conclude a 16 hour softball day. Saturday we had the 8am game, we lost and loser bracket marathon started which was my worst fear going into the tournament. We played well throughout the day and our last game finished at 1:15am Sunday morning. You read it correctly, no typo...1:15am Sunday morning! A 19 hour day of softball. Between the start of the tournament and the end of day 2 we had played 10 games in 37 hours. The good news is we won 6 games on Sat and we were still alive. The bad news is the next game starts at 8am Sunday morning. We had about 6 1/2 hours to return to the hotel, shower, eat, sleep, get back to the field, warm up and be ready to play. No problem, my team does this all the time, so we were prepared. Just kidding, we were dead tired on Sunday morning and we played like it, lost the 8am game and went home. We felt like we had a good tournament, played great teams, had a lot of fun, etc. I think my team is tough as nails and they played like gladiators slaying 1 team after another on Sat. I am extremely proud of the way we played and how we endured the marathon. I mean no disrespect to the team that beat us and I dont want to use this as an excuse, but in the end I felt like fatigue won. I dont believe any team could play that schedule and win many games on Sunday. I dont think 50 year old men were made to perform well under those conditions. If the games ran on time and you could get off the field and be allowed 8-9 hours before your next game then maybe it would be possible to survive the losers bracket. Suggestion for SSUSA: Give up on pencil and paper for running this tournament. This is 2012 and there is technology available to make this a better tournament. Think about using laptops and software to help run this tournament. Find a consultant to help implement things that make the tournament run easier to run and create a better experience for your customers. To summarize, this type of schedule is beyond reasonable for the players. The tournament needs to run a lot smoother. SSUSA needs to do a better job at scheduling and getting the games to run on time. Hiring a consultant to help them would be a good start. There are larger tournaments with more than 49 teams that are played throughout the world so someone else has already figured out how to run a large tournament. I appreciate all the efforts from everyone that worked at the tournament, thank you. |
| Sept. 23, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: Bases @ 70' I dont see how they would make this permanent because most fields are not set up for 70' bases. Good luck with that. 70' would be ok...if they would allow us to lead off with the pitch. But then this would be the only tourney with this type of rules. |
| Sept. 23, 2012 Doorman | Topic: Tournaments Discussion: Bases @ 70' We played in LV earlier this year with the 70' bases. It changes the game more than you think. Here is what I think happens. - Less doubles - Less runners going 1st to 3rd - More force outs at 2B - More double plays - Lower scoring games. I dont have stats to prove my point, but I would be curious to statistically see the differences between games with 65' bases vs games with 70' bases. For teams that run well it is a big disadvantage. It changes the game into more of a a station to station contest. Teams with good base runners are definitely slowed. The longer bases definitely favor teams that hit more home runs and run poorly. The teams that rely on speed in order to compete against the teams that hit more home runs are at a disadvantage. Teams with average running speed and dont hit a lot of home runs are hurt the most. The extra 5' probably costs them 2-5 outs per game and 2-5 runs per game. Doubles are turned into singles, beating the double play by a step turns into a double play, safe at home by a step turns into out by a step, etc. I think it is stupid to play with 65' bases all year, then for the biggest tournament of the year we are forced to play 70' bases. I dont think it would be asking too much to move the bases moved in 5' for this big of a tournament. This is just my opinion and I could be wrong. |
| July 15, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Tournament Prizes I had one more idea. They have "Ring Optional" tournaments. They could add "Jacket Optional", "Hat Optional" or "Shirt Optional" tournaments. A lot of guys dont want to buy the rings. Let the winners decide what they want to buy. For the amount of money we spend on tournaments they ought to give us something, but since they dont want to give us anything usable, then maybe we can just buy the gear we want for winning a tournament. It should have a distinct logo, year won and location. BTW, My team donated the cheap bags we won to a youth tee ball team. We figured that was the only age group that could use it. |
| July 12, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: WHO GETS THE BALL?? How about this. The outfielder catches the ball for the third out, then turns around the throws the ball out towards the fence and heads in. The other team has to retrieve the ball before the inning can start. What is the difference between the 2 plays? The ball should be returned to the umpire or left on the infield at the end of each inning. IMO leaving the ball out at the fence is either poor sportsmanship or just plain laziness. Your pick. |
| July 12, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Tournament Prizes Interesting conversation. As I expected, nobody is happy with the prizes. I know SS reads the board so maybe they will get the clue. Gary19 hit the nail on the head...twice. First he said "Like with many things in life, they will only give you what you are willing to bend over and accept." Totally true. We accept the lousy prizes, so why should they change. Second, I am somewhere between the solid gold trophy and the trinket. Actually I am much closer to the trinket. I would assume a decent quality hat or a discontinued Miken bat bag are close to the same value. I have bought plenty of hats and they cost $15 with an embroidered logo. If you bought 300-400 hats the price goes way down. I saw some cheap Miken bags on Ebay for $15. My guess is SS pays very little for those Miken bags. Wes mentioned the cost of putting on a tournament and the cost of having better prizes. SS has already built in the cost of the prizes into the price of the tournament. I have figured out why we get what we get. It is cheap, easy, we accept it and we keep coming back for more. They have no reason to change it...unless we complain, refuse to accept the lousy prizes or stop showing up. A good place to start is complaining....which is what this thread is all about. |
| July 9, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Tournament Prizes We won our division at the Cal Cup tournament last weekend. Our prize was a very small Miken equipment bag...and a piece of paper that says we can purchase a ring. The bag is so small I have no idea how to use it. This is not the first tournament we have won. In the other tournaments we won we got a similar (discontinued) Miken bag...and a piece of paper saying we can purchase a ring. I play softball for the fun of playing, the competition, the comraderie...not for big cash and expensive prizes. However, when your team wins it would be nice to come home with something you actually want or something we can use instead of discontinued products that nobody wants to buy. Who at SS thought that giving us old guys products that nobody buys was a good idea? Everyone plays as hard as they can play. We endure heat, cold, sore muscles, misc injuries, etc during these tournaments...plus most of the teams pay thier own way to enter these tournaments and the travel expenses. Winning a crappy bag that Miken cant sell is insulting to me so I have decided to add this discussion to the board and see what responses come up. Here are my suggestions for tournament prizes. Every tournament has a logo. How about the champions get a nice hat (not a super cheap throwaway hat) with an embroidered logo for the tournament and the year. The hat cannot be bought, it must be won. Or...a good quality shirt with the an embroidered tournament logo and the year on it. The shirt cannot be bought, it must be won. Or...a $10-20 coupon to purchase what we want from the softball truck. Let us combine our coupons to buy a team bat or give the coupons to the MVP of our team and let him buy whatever he needs off the truck. For those that like the bling...keep the ring option available. Am I alone in thinking this way? What do you guys think? |
| July 9, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Cal cup champions So Cal Knights won the 50AAA |
| May 6, 2012 Doorman | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Southwest Championships I few comebacks about the 70' bases. Some of you guys act as if base runners and infielders are being carted off after being hit by the ball. I have never seen any base runner hit with a ball when playing the 65' bases. The fielders can play anywhere they want but tend to play deeper with the longer bases. Infielders will play where they feel safe and where they can make plays regardless of the base length. I see no safety advantage for fielders or base runners. Guys trying to break up the double play at 2B has always been a part of the game. Making the bases longer does not stop this from occurring. If they want to eliminate this part of the game then eliminate sliding or call a double play for making any contact with an infielder. Nobody can deny the longer bases changes the game and I say it doesn't make it better. Based on the message from SSUSA, they get the point but cant adjust the thinking in LV...yet. Last thing. The 53' pitching rubber may be safer, but so would 55', 60', etc. If they want to make the game safer, slow down the speed of the ball, not change the field dimensions. |
