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Discussion: Time to move TOC

Posted Discussion
Feb. 13, 2014
jcsoftball
Men's 60
4 posts
Time to move TOC
I have been to 4 TOC's and only once was the weather good... cold and rainy are the rule ... If we truly want to see who's best than lets play where odds of better weather are in our favor... flying across country to play in the cold and rain is getting old move it to AZ or CA at least we would have a chance of better weather... Florida has great weather but not in Feb as we have seen in the past few years... I know weather is always a chance but lets spread the wealth or move the TOC to another month...
Any other input on this?
Feb. 13, 2014
gott2play
Men's 55
139 posts
JC,

You're out of luck on this issue...at least for the next 7 to 8 years. I believe that SSUSA has a 10 year agreement and/or contract in place with the Polk County Tourism and Sports Marketing organization, and just completed year 2 or 3. The TOC will be held in Florida fir the foreseeable future.

Tony Baltazar
So Cal 55's - Major
Feb. 13, 2014
Sweet P
Men's 60
168 posts
IMO it should be played after the LVSSA-SSUSA World's and prior to the Winter World's. This would make the event more current, increase participation, and the chance of better weather and help those teams who have roster issues due to the event being played after the start of the new season, which usually results in roster changes.

Phillip
W.C. All-stars 60-Major
Feb. 13, 2014
jcsoftball
Men's 60
4 posts
Phillip great input... SSUSA are we also locked into a time slot to play???
Feb. 13, 2014
Dbax
Men's 60
1264 posts
Deja Vu all over again!
Feb. 14, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
The information provided by Tony is accurate. The 2014 TOC was year #3 of the current 10-year contract with Central Florida Sports Marketing for the event to be held in Polk County in early February through 2021.
Feb. 14, 2014
neck10
492 posts
can you move it to later in febuary. it seems to always be better one to two weeks after we leave.Im from Michigan so makes 60's feel real warm.last year was 85 ish,we had ball players who couldn't get through Detroit so played with 9.just wanted to let fran & Terry know we at KINNCO thought umpires were very good.
Feb. 14, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
neck10: Before the current contract commenced, the Tournament of Champions was held a week later. But because of the conflict with the Daytona 500 dates (then) and the President’s Day holiday, air fares were much higher, even for earlier reservations, and hotels were more difficult to come by, both in terms of availability and cost to the players. The decision to lock into the current time frame is in the best economic interests of the participants.
Feb. 14, 2014
tg69
307 posts
YEA//// RIGHT
Feb. 14, 2014
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
SSUSA Staff: Please!!! ... Many of us have complained for much longer than 3 years about the time frame chosen for the TOC ... Perhaps you can tell us what SSUSA's economic interests are in maintaining the current TOC dates and location.
Feb. 14, 2014
tg69
307 posts
CAN YOU SAY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Feb. 14, 2014
softball4b
Men's 60
732 posts
#19 Seriously, you expect a privately held company to provide contract data for your review.
Feb. 14, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
We'll go ahead and re-visit this one more time, and then it goes into the file folder marked "Things to Think About in 2021" ...

• The TOC has a significantly lower entry fee than any of the 20 or so TOC qualifiers where teams earn an invitation to participate ... We hope to break even on this event annually without resorting to an entry fee increase ... Some year we may actually luck out and break even! ...
• We are not going to adversely impact the well-attended Winter Nationals (Ft. Myers) and Winter Worlds (Phoenix) during the first half of November by slotting the TOC in those dates ... Toss in Thanksgiving, and that takes care of November ... December is out because of the Christmas Season ... January makes no sense due to cold weather almost everywhere ...
• We intend to fully honor our side of the 10-year contract with Central Florida Sports Marketing for the TOC to be held in early February in Polk County, FL, through 2021 ... But we do have about seven more years to gather data and suggestions for potential change starting in 2022 ...

Feb. 14, 2014
titanhd
Men's 50
325 posts

STAFF. Not sure if it makes a difference which tourney is used in the current TOC time slot? Unless the contract specifically names the TOC as the event. Can we suggest to simply switch the winter worlds and TOC time slot? The contract commitment to the city and the fields would still be fulfilled. Simply a different tourney (event) and the TOC would actually be played in the same season year as qualified.
Feb. 14, 2014
stick8
1268 posts
One of the drawbacks for teams in this event is some teams lose players from the previous year. They quit, retire or go to a different team.
In our case (OKI) we qualified but we had 2 or 3 players who weren't ready because of post 2013 season surgeries and our shortstop tragically passed away in November. I don't think the rules allow for more than 1 replacement, but I could be mistaken on that.
Feb. 15, 2014
leftybob
Men's 50
63 posts
Stick, You are mistaken in regard to replacements. Saw one team in the TOC with six to seven new faces.
Feb. 15, 2014
softball4b
Men's 60
732 posts
IMO...TOC is a event, it is something to experience not something to measure your stature as a team...enjoy the experience and revel in the atmosphere. Not to diminish anyone's accomplishments, but I believe overall you should experience the moment as a reward for the year you had...
Feb. 16, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
I've had the pleasure of playing in 2 TOC's. SSUSA treats this tournament totally differently from any other tournament. They really roll out the red carpet for you with all of the activities they put on. The dinners are great. I had a lot of fun at both. I know, the weather has not been the best-our 2 years the first was very cold all 3 days and the second got brutally cold on Sunday, but that's life. In the weather world, the next 7 TOC's could be in the 70's and great weather.
tg69-I personally do not have a problem with them making money. It is a business, but it also provides tournaments across the country for us. I know they all work hard to make it the best they can. Is it perfect? No, but nothing ever will be and you can't please everybody. We are a small minority that post here, but the vast majority of the players I have talked to that have gone to a TOC came away having had a great time. I've missed going the last 2 years. I always say if you are so unhappy with the way things are, and you think you can do it better-go for it. Start your own association and run it the way you think it should be run. SSUSA did that and I am glad they are there to provide these tourneys for us.
Feb. 16, 2014
tg69
307 posts
Webbie, we took your advice on playing elseware.We qualified for the TOC an opted not to go but did play in another Association.Thanks so much for your imput.And also liked those nice functions in the airport hangar or outside with the COLD FOOD was a great experience.Hoped you also enjoyed.Maybe well see you again in Vegas at the park with NO facilities again.Tom
Feb. 16, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
Tom, I know it isn't perfect and that cold hangar was very cold, but it would have been a fantastic setting for the dinner if the weather had co-operated.But I'm not sure where you really change things up. Would TOC be better attended in November? It would be interesting to know what percentage of teams that qualified for TOC actually went. And if you put winter nationals in February, you still have the possibility of cold weather anywhere you go. Phoenix averages around 70 and 45-50 for lows, but has been in the 20's at some time almost every day in Feb. Fort Meyers is slightly warmer, averaging 70's and lows in mid 50's but has been in the 20's in February also. You just cannot totally get away from cold weather in Feb. We were also at the park with limited facilities-Sunset. They are still getting acclimated to a tournament of that size and the City of LV has been a little less that cooperative. I do expect that to change in the future as it crosses 500-600 and more teams. In 60 Major Plus we had 9 teams 2 yrs ago and I think it was about that this year-memory fails again. That's a lot for M+.
In SPA Dalton last year, in bracket play, we won a 31-25 game and then lost to Line Drive 45-38 in a 3 hour game in 98 degree heat. Thinking we were done, we got our stuff off and relaxed, only to have the schedule changed and we had to play Superior that same day. They changed it!! We lost that game 38-24 or something like that and went home-totally exhausted. We had a couple guys very near heat exhaustion after over 7 hours of playing. There are problems with every association. But I, for one, will still be out there playing and appreciating that someone does provide the venue!!!
Tom, I look forward to seeing you out there again!!
Feb. 16, 2014
LP
280 posts
SSUSA is locked in to a contract thats all and good, the main thing i thin is this was a bad time slot from the start. when this event is held in feb. teams have changed players esp. when a team quialfies in the winter world and doesnt get to play until 13 months later, not only does the team have different players but they are 13 moths older, now thats a big deal. just not much thought went into making this a greater tournament than it is.
Feb. 16, 2014
tg69
307 posts
Webbie, It would be interestjng to know just how many team were qualified to go to TOC and how many actually went.And would they have participated had the tourney been held in the latter part of that previous year? November or early December. Its hard to stay focussed in a 2 month layoff and then come oyt and play to the level at which you qualified at.We have no weather here that allows us to be out taking batting practice or fielding in Dec. and Jan. so playing in Feb. is like going thru spring training instead of playing in the WORLD SERIES.Also,large number of teams dont have the same personal that they qualified with/////////////////// PS I will play somewhere as long as the good LORD allows but I would like to do so at the top of my game. TG69
Feb. 16, 2014
titanhd
Men's 50
325 posts
WEBBIE. The percentage of teams that actually went? 273 teams qualified 99 were scheduled to attend.
Feb. 16, 2014
Ho
229 posts
You are being a little too tough on the SSUSA TOC tournament, especially considering in 2013 there were only FIVE SENIOR TOURNAMENTS east of VEGAS which drew more than EIGHTY-FIVE MENS' TEAMS to a Tournament.

They were SPA WORLDS 148; SSUA FORT MYERS 132; ISSA MANNASSAS WORLD 88; SSUSA(2014) 87 and THEE SPA BUCKEYE CLASSIC 85.

That is based on the attendance of SIXTY-TWO SENIOR TOURNAMENTS(there were five cancelled) held EAST OF VEGAS.

The only way the TOC will get more attendance is to move it west, so don't fault SSUSA. They had a good showing for an eastern tournament.

Ho
Feb. 16, 2014
tg69
307 posts
Ho. If its not SSUSAs fault for signing a ten year deal, whos is it?. Seems to me that all that should matter is all the west teams, so maybe its their fault.Thats where all the tourneys are according to you 62 senior tourneys and only 5 east of Vegas..........WOW
Feb. 16, 2014
wagon487
Men's 50
522 posts
tg69, when you went to the "other toc" no telling who you would play. I know some 60 teams that took players that were turning 60 this year. I know a 55 team that only had 3 players from last year.
I know major + guys playing AAA. I've been to both (won the 50 majors at ssusa a couple of years ago).
It's just about the money for the "other toc", no roster checks.
I know going to both what to expect. I had a good time at both.
If I had one to win, it would be the SSUSA TOC, it's legit.
Feb. 16, 2014
tg69
307 posts
wagon, I agree with you on winning the TOC.But I would like it to be an even playingh field.From what I hear, some teams have the meens to play year round, south and west.But in our areaNov. thru march is not much going on as far as softball .So as I stated earlier Feb is like spring training instead of being on top of your game or at the level we were playing at the time of qualifing.SSUSA had complaints way before they jumped into a ten year contract with Polk Co.
Feb. 16, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
Somebody did a count of TOC winners I think it was 2 years ago and there were as many from cold climates as there were from warm climates.If you are not in Florida or the far southwest for TOC, that leaves south Texas climatewise to consider and it gets cold there too. Houston had a snowstorm/ice storm event about 2 weeks ago. We won it 3 years ago in 55AAA and we are a cold climate team-January averages are 45 high and 24 low- I don't play in that. In February 3 years ago went to -7 one night and a high of 5 the next day.BRRRR!
It's just tough to get a good schedule to play TOC and Winter Natinals and make it work.
Feb. 16, 2014
titanhd
Men's 50
325 posts
Webbie what year did you win TOC? Team Name? Please.
Feb. 16, 2014
Ho
229 posts
TG..what it states is. "(there) were 62 tournaments held EAST OF VEGAS (plus another FIVE which were cancelled)...NOT ONLY FIVE East of Vegas.

Don't know how many west of Vegas or what they drew.

But just in case you are interested in how many tournaments were held at and west of VEGAS, a quick check of the 2013 tournaments looks like around forty-plus....WOW!!!

Ho
Feb. 16, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
TOC 2014 Winners by State/Province • Champions were fairly close to evenly divided between warmer states (those generally not getting snow) and colder states/provinces (those that do get snow) this year ... Florida accounted for over ⅓ of all winners, with 10 ... It's commonplace for teams from the host state to do well in any major event, not just the TOC ... Other than FL, only three other champions came from traditional warm weather states ...

WARMER STATES (13)
FL • 10
CA • 2
AZ • 1

COLDER STATES/PROVINCES (16)
MN • 3
MI • 2
ON • 2
VA • 2
IN • 1
IL • 1
MD • 1
NY • 1
OH • 1
RI • 1
WI • 1

Feb. 16, 2014
tg69
307 posts
Well that means 3 states won 13 and 47 states and Canada won 16 WOW.Ive talked to some of the northern guys and they say that they have some indoor facilities to use.Also,273 teams qualified and only 99 went.WOW, a little over one third. Bet if it was played first of Nov. that amount doubles. Im not trying to sell a bill of goods, just voicing my OPINION.
Feb. 16, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
titan-Desperados-50AAA, 2011
Feb. 17, 2014
Hookdup
7 posts
I think that if it was closer to the West or at least the middle USA, more teams would attend. My 40s team wanted to go, but just too far away. We all just got done playing on tourney teams in the last few years where we had to go to Florida 3/4 times a year. I guess maybe we are just burned out on Florida.
Feb. 18, 2014
d45
134 posts
Minnesota Masters 65's won the major division this year at the T.O.C. My relatives told me it was like -10 to a low of -26 a lot of days in Dec. I believe Ohio won the AAA 60's division. Indiana Jobs won the 65's AA division. That is only a few examples of cold weather states winning the T.O.C. I attended a few years back and had a blast playing and participating in the events leading up to the games themselves. I feel blessed everytime I step on the field that I have the good health to compete. SSUSA does a great job in making this event a positive experience. I believe there is a lot of creedence as well in changing the dates from Feb. to a closer date after Vegas Worlds because of roster changes, players leaving for other teams, etc.
Feb. 19, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
126 posts
Why not just flip flop the Winter Nationals and the TOC. Same number of teams play in both? Makes more sense to have the TOC premier tournament in the same year you qualified.
Feb. 19, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
@paul0784 ... Because the TOC in FL in November would irreparably harm the Winter Worlds one week later in Phoenix and the Winter Nationals in Polk County in February would irreparably harm the Spring Nationals, also in Polk County, one month later in March ...
Feb. 19, 2014
curty
Men's 60
103 posts
I can understand all the points for changing dates for TOC, but also see that a lot of time and money has already been invested. The logistics of a "free" tourney: field use and prep, not just for games, but also for other events, free dinner (and facility,) shirts ( not "T"s), awards for skills competition, Free rings for winners, and I'm sure there are more. Some will say it's not free @ paid entry but that only barely covers the expenses of a 5 gg tourney. ( umps, balls, field maintenance, etc) To me it seems that a lot of sponsorships are involved in the rest of the story and I'm sure that a long term commitment is necessary to achieve all this. I'm quite pleased to be @ 60 degrees, even with a little rain, as opposed to -10 and snow, AND playing ball. As such, when the opportunity presents itself- I will be there. Just my $.02 worth.
Feb. 19, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
curty-I think you put it best. Yes it is not perfect, but they really go all out to put on a great time there, and securing facilities, etc. is not easy. I have watched them do their best for a long time-I am not sure that if I was actually working for them that I could have done any better. It really is a huge job to have everything come off as planned.
Feb. 20, 2014
curty
Men's 60
103 posts
webbie- I play for Baystate Bombers- u beat us for TOC win, @ which time we met! I have organised tourneys for years, including travel arrangements on occasion, and understand the amount of time money and effort just to get that done, let alone an undertaking of this magnitude!! Hope knees are better, and we meet again on the field.
Feb. 20, 2014
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
SSUSA Staff ... Perhaps it is the TOC that is being irreparably harmed by other tournaments ... I submit that playing the TOC so many months after the season ends causes problems for the teams who have qualified ... Since the TOC is supposed to be the jewel tournament for SSUSA, why not treat it that way?
Feb. 20, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
We do
Feb. 20, 2014
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
You have a strange way of showing it ... In your previous post you seemed more concerned about the Winter Worlds and the Winter Nationals.
Feb. 20, 2014
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
d45 Indiana Legends won 65AA--
tg69 273 teams qualified--or should that be said that there were 273 available spots of which some teams qualified more than once--without looking I know that last year Syracuse Cyclones 65 AA qualified more than once as did US Jobs this year---personally I think TOC is a great tournament followed closely by the Winternationals in Ft Myers SSUSA keep up the great but unthankful work ---you are doing a great job
Feb. 20, 2014
tg69
307 posts
Steve 65, just curiuos as to how many teams were in your division? there was 99 teams in all in 29 divisions/ thats about 3.4 per division!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Feb. 20, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1177 posts
All of the Game Scores and Bracket results are online ... Click on: TOURNAMENTS ► Tournament of Champions ► Game Scores and Bracket Results ► Complete: All Ages and Divisions

The number of teams in each is clearly shown at the top of every Division schedule
Feb. 21, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
curty-I remember you guys very well-we played you several times and every game was tough.I was the lefty with the big blue knee brace-which I will not have to wear any more. That will be different. The other thing about the TOC is EVERY team is a tournament winner-never an easy game. I hope to get another chance to play in one.
March 3, 2014
kab3263
4 posts
We can find fault with anything and everything. I appreciate the TOC and the way it is run. Too many people believe there is always a better way and complain about everything. One thing I appreciated about Senior Softball is no longer having to deal with the attitudes of younger players. Seems we have our own issues as well. Fella's appreciate the fact we can still play, that there is an organization like SSUSA. If you don't like the TOC, don't go. This is my first year in Senior Softball and was fortunate enough to play TOC. Every game was competitive and winning it, in my opinion is a big deal. SSUSA worked their tails off to put on this tournament. Thank them, don't beat them down.
March 3, 2014
SS13
18 posts
I think it should be moved to November. The colder weather states haven't played since October at best and they are rusty to say the least while the warmer states get to play all year. Plus the weather would be much warmer and more cooperative.
March 4, 2014
d45
134 posts
Sorry about that Steve 65. What is different about the Indiana Legends, vs. Indiana Jobs? I think it was Indiana Jobs, or I may have been wrong, that we played in Vegas, excellent team, wished we had gone to Florida and played. As far as SSUSA, they do an awesome job in putting on the T.O.C. I have directed smaller tournaments, and the magnitude of the workload is unbelieveable! My hat is off to SSUSA. Keep up the great work!
March 5, 2014
hurler
11 posts
they all have a hand in the toc isa ssusa have lots of top people there.
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