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Discussion: A Question for all teams

Posted Discussion
Oct. 15, 2008
sierahiker44
Men's 55
17 posts
A Question for all teams
No Dice 55AAA won the western states tourney. They earned a chance to play syracusr Merchants eastern champs for the national title. No dice was moved up to majors after the western nationals. No dice was told that they would not be playing for the national title because they were moved up to majors. No dice has been informed that they will be declared national champs without playing any game and can order rings, Meanwhile the runner up for the westerns Over the Edge will be playing the title game. Question, has any other team ever been declared a national champ in this way? Im confused . What title does No Dice win.
Oct. 15, 2008
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
Does that mean that you won't be going to TOC as a AAA team? If you're not allowed to play AAA, does that mean you can order rings?
Oct. 15, 2008
SSUSA Staff
1119 posts
Re-post from virtually the same question posted previously:

The IDENTICAL fact pattern happened last year (2007). Michael Valerio, CPA (MI) and the Vancouver Merchants (WA) each won the 50-AAA Divisions in the East and West Nationals, respectively. After the West Nationals, the Vancouver Merchants team was re-rated to 50-Major and participated in that Division at the 2007 World Championships. BOTH teams were declared co-national champions in the 50-AAA and received the Champions awards and the ring option as such. This is not a new circumstance
Oct. 15, 2008
Stretch14
Men's 50
185 posts
That was a joke. To move up the Vancouver Merchants. That was their last SSUSA tournment until the World tournment. Co champions. Terrible. move on SSUSA staff.
Oct. 15, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Sierahiker44 and Stretch,

You both are correct here. The whole idea of National Champions has been diminshed and is a joke. Teams are penalized for winning a National/Ring tournament. My team did not even qualify, nor have we earned a berth to the tournament of champions, but we get bumped up to Majors. We never won a National/Ring tournament in our 7-8 years of playing AAA ball in the SSUSA organization. Sorry about your team's situation, and hopefully this gets rectified in future years for other teams.

Andy Smith,
Manager,
Double Nickels
Oct. 16, 2008
Paco13
362 posts
I am new to this Senior softball league. It seems as if the Senior circuit have the same issues as the other competitive association; moving teams up and trying to make everything more competitive. We just put a 50 AAA team together here at VA Beach and won the ISSA winter national or something like that and are planning to go to FT. Myers as AAA team. We are by no means an upper level team, just a bunch of old people having fun that got lucky and won. So if we do well in FT. Myers are we supposed to move up, makes no sense, it should be left to the individual teams if they want to move up and not up to the association. Just my opinion. Have a Bless day.
Oct. 16, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Paco13,

I do not agree with leaving it up to the teams, nor the association for that matter. There needs to be checks and balances. It NEEDS to be a joint decision/effort between teams and all of the associations, i.e., a player's/associations board. Just for a quick example as to why it cannot be the way you suggested. I know a band of players that ALWAYS play AA, and have received 5-6 rings, and I saw them. They keep moving from one team to another and SSUSA has not figured it out yet. I told them what they could do with their rings. Anyway, just my opinion, and thanks for yours.

Andy Smith,
Manager,
Double Nickels
Oct. 16, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i think rings for AA is a farce,they are not the best,otherwise they would be playing M+.M+ are the only ones that deserve to get rings.they don't crown the minor leagues the world champs just the eventual world series winner in the MLB.
Oct. 16, 2008
Paco13
362 posts
I heard that this rings do not mean anything since you have to pay for them. Personally, I will never buy one out my pockett, so if somebody have few of them more power to them. I guess some of the Team members are going to order one for the 50 AAA that we won at the beach, CONGRATULATIONS I SAY. I have better things to do with my money, but everybody can do what ever they want with theirs. I was a CO-MVP and made all the tourney team, that was good enough for me. How much difference between a AAA and major, probably minimum, is just a choice. Agree with the point about who decides to move up, Remember that teams loose and gain players from year to year. Personally I play SS and 2nd for a compettive Silver team, have no desire to play senior ball for people to shoot bullets at me, AAA is fine with me, the ball comes hard but not as hard. So I guess I will be one of those that jump from AAA-AAA for ever. Good luck to major teams playing tourneys with one or two teams. Have a bless day.
Oct. 16, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Mad Dog,

I have to disagree with you on this one. This is why we need representation from all levels of play, because whatever level you play at, you should be able to earn a ring. This is not the Pro's gentlemen. We are here to have fun, and try to be competive in the correct divisions. We cannot have this kind of thinking. We need to be fair to all. How is it going Mad Dog? I believe we played one time on the same team in Phoenix. Hope all is going well.

Paco,

Noted and no comment.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager
Oct. 16, 2008
Paco13
362 posts
Duke,

I agree with you, if this ring issue is so big, then everybody team that participates and pays $500.00 to play a tourney deserves to order and pay for a ring. I will imagine that just as any other organization the lower level teams is what keeps the senior level going. If it was not for AA and AAA teams, there were no Senior league....MAD DOG think about that. AA and AAA have on the average 7-10 teams how many on the major and major plus 1-4. Who brings the most money??? Something to make go HUMMMMM.
Oct. 16, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
What is it with rings anyway. Can't we just go out and enjoy the game at our age and don't make such a big deal about a ring which you have to buy anyway

I have won 3 rings over the last 2 yrs, big deal. I am not going to buy one so I can go around spouting see my rings.
Just play the game we love and forget all the sideshows.
Oct. 16, 2008
Paco13
362 posts
Fred,

Well said. this is my first year and for I am hearing, probably it will my last, tooooo much fuzzing and B.....ing. During the last and only tourney that I play, the other team that we were beating wanted to forfeit the game because we all did not have the same jersey colors and then he complaint that we did not have the same hats...he was ejected from the field. I expected something different, but for I see is all the same young and old. Lets just play ball have fun and for the few of us that have to work, lets get up on Monday morning and go to work. Have a bless day.
Oct. 16, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Paco13 and Fred,

You have it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager
Oct. 16, 2008
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
1-4 teams Major brackets.Have you checked the Phoenix brackets for 50 Major (26) teams.
Oct. 16, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
26 teams for 50's but only 3 for 55-60's. appease.
The nice thing about the phoenix T is the breakdown of divisions. There was a lot of work put into that.
Wonder what the other major tournaments that were held or to be, had or will have. I'd bet not as many for the 50's, about the same for other two.
Oct. 16, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
my mistake, that was M plus
Oct. 17, 2008
terrymac
46 posts
Response to Mad Dog - The Major Plus are really great players. It is really too bad that there are not more of them. But you see a lot of players like to play senior softball. Most dont have the skills to play Major+ My team is a AA and every time we take the field we play as hard as any team. We dont have the big hitters or home run guys. But what we have is the respect of every team we play. The thing to remember there are way more average players then superstars. Without the average guys you would be hard pressed to have any tournament. The rings are OK but my guys play for each other. We have practice shirts that say "count on me" With us it is all about team. No egos. Fines for throwing bats and cussing. We pray together after every game. Probably sounds corny to the big time players but winning isnt everything, competing is. But you guys are amazing how far you hit the ball. LOL Terry McClaskey Mgr Ohio Siverados AA
Oct. 17, 2008
kbl
Men's 60
527 posts
terrymac, well said. i also play 55aa and 60aa. we just love playing together and having fun. competition-1st and winning 2nd. we played you guys twice last year(fredrick-aa)and i understand you. ken from pa.
Oct. 17, 2008
kbl
Men's 60
527 posts
terrymac, well said. i also play 55aa and 60aa. we just love playing together and having fun. competition-1st and winning 2nd. we played you guys twice last year(fredrick-aa)and i understand you. ken from pa.
Oct. 17, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Terrymac, you have fines for "cussing"? If our team had that I couldn't afford to leave the house.
Oct. 17, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
193 posts
Mad Dog, thanks for letting every player below major+ know they are not the best!! never would have figuured it out for ourselves. guess we are wasting our time and money----WAIT A MINUTE!!! now i remember,(memory fading with age). i've always knew i wasn't the best. i can accept that, because i am willing to waste my time and money "FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME'.the GAME is what counts regardless of the level of play. the competition and camraderie are what really RINGS true!
so Mad Dog 98% of us may not meet your definition of "THE BEST', but thank God there are other divisons for those of us who know our limitations and are still willing and able to put our skills to the test, no matter what level our softball talents may be.
your insult has been noted, TO BAD SO SAD.
TOMAR
MANAGER, Git-R-Done AA
Oct. 17, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Hey Tom,

Very well said. I was trying to be diplomatic about my response, but yours is the way I thought about answering Mad Dog. This is why you cannot have a board of players, just made up of Major+ players. Their thinking and rules is all about them and their needs and wants. What Paco13 said is excellent and correct. Without us less ability players, AA and AAA, there would probably be no SSUSA. Tommy, one last statement for you and everyone else. When I was younger, I played against the best, and over 80% of these teams could not compete with my team on an open field with no fences. Honestly, with all of the bat technology, the fences are way too close. Hey Tommy, good luck in Phoenix and have a good time. Hope to run into you and maybe watch a game. I have to be careful not to be seen with you AA players. LMAO! Say hi to the pretty lady for me. Always a pleasure to see you my friend.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager
Oct. 17, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Ken,

If our team had fines for cussing, you would end up sponsoring our team. So get some tape and use it! LOL!

Andy :-)
Oct. 17, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
193 posts
Andy,first of all, congrats. on winning your last tourney.second,thank you for your response. to my e-mail to Mad Dog. I am sure he isn't representative of most of the major+ players. In fact when I have the opportunity I enjoy watching them pound the ball,defense a little subspect at times, but hey, who needs defense when all you really need are ball retrivers(might be a role for AA players) lol.
Third, good luck to you guys at the WORLDS.Lastly, Martha and I will enjoy catching up with you and the rest of our old teammates!
TOMAR
Oct. 17, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
It is so easy to "earn" a ring that it is a joke. Doesn't mean much. To many are awarded. Who would want to wear a ring for a one game tournament that they did not win on the field.
Oct. 17, 2008
Stretch14
Men's 50
185 posts
So AA is a farce. They don't have the best player's. I don't play AA but that sound's like you're putting down player's that love to play the game just because they don't have the best player's. Get real.
Oct. 18, 2008
THECAT
59 posts
I will state again, why not let the tourney directors do their jobs and send their evaluations to the SSUSA. The TD's and their reps are there to see first hand the competition that was set up. I am sure that they are not only their to make money but to balance each division for future tourneys held by them.
Now you have a first hand evaluation. Team managers are able to show their case instead of the SSUSA making decisions based on stats alone. Then if you get moved up its by visual evauation as well as stats with little or no discusion. Take SSUSA out of the picture on this and put it back into the players and teams who support the organization. I'm sure their is more that can be added but this may just be a start. The SSUSA has done what it can but with the true input this may take it out of its blinders and pet favors that it may show.
Oct. 18, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Cat, you are absolutely, 100% right. This knee-jerk, micro managing of the rankings needs to be stopped. It must be done by people who actually see the teams play. It suspiciously looks like they are moving teams up to insure that they get a good turnout at the tournaments in each division.
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