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Discussion: Championship game scoring

Posted Discussion
June 15, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Championship game scoring
In our final 2 games
both played to seven innings
in Reno in the 60 major plus
the average score was 17 to 7.
In the final for the 50 major plus,
the best senior hitters on the planet
the score after 7 full innings
was 23 to 20.
No one was hurt or crippled
not even close and where was the gaudy
run production that we've been told
accompanies using lively bats and balls?
Nowhere to be found.
Where's the lack of defense
that some say signals our self indulgent
and ego driven style of play?
Nowhere to be found.

THIS is the reality of senior softball.
This is who and what we are
and what our game is really like
and we like our game.
It's a lot of fun
and it's worth traveling
and investing in as it is, now.

All this talk and movement
to sell us and our game out
saying it's/we're too unsafe
is poppycock through
ignorance and fear on our part
and the self interest of others.
It seems none of this "testing" involving reaction times dealt
with adrenalized reactions
and/or anticipation which are both integral to the movements players
perform when playing.

Let's resist being pushed around
and toward neutering us and
killing our game
which is what will happen
if they trot out meaningfully less
lively and restricting bats/balls.
We don't need 'em or want 'em.

Lively bats and balls, forever.
June 15, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
In the 50 Major in Carson City, most games were in the high teens-low twenties, even a few in the low teens. All games close. In the Major-plus, those games were in the twenties with a couple of breakout scores. This was with the wind blowing out on most fields. Not too many DBO's and when the HR's were used up there was no middle wars.

Do we want to play games 9-8, 7-6, 5-4? The 44-375 ball we are using right now seems to keep the scores down - the rules obviously have something to do with that. What is wrong here? Softball is an offensive game, let's enjoy it!
June 15, 2010
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
Five of the 6 games our 50+ major plus team played were on field 7 in Carson City. A very strong wind was blowing in from left field and out to right field all 3 days on field 7. There is no doubt scores of all games played on this field would have been considerably higher had the wind not been blowing the way it was. We scored 29 runs on field 4 where the wind was blowing out.
June 15, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Being overlooked are the lower divisions and the older ages.
Before the majority can speak how about including everyone in the discussion.
We all know the upper division(s) are more atheletic and better players.
And yes, I would much rather play a game with scores of 9/8, 7/6, or 5/4.
It brings more strategy, defense, and game for the lesser players.
June 15, 2010
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1043 posts
Brett ... It was NOT a random accident of scheduling for the 50-Major+ to play exclusively on Fields #4 and #7 ... Those fields hit "uphill" (#4 hits toward the upper parking lot and #7 hits up the mountain) where the potential (not to be confused with probability) to recover home run balls is higher than it is on Fields #5 (downhill toward the tennis courts) and #6 (rattlesnake acres) ... The wind direction was merely a Field Directors's bonus! ... DAVE
June 15, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Cunning Dave!
June 15, 2010
titanhd
Men's 50
325 posts
Balls are not keeping the score down- especially with homerun limits and the Five run limit inning.
June 15, 2010
Smokey20
Men's 55
102 posts
E4/E6 the game you long for is called baseball, they use a smaller ball and pitch overhand.

June 15, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
Come on E4/E6, you are not serious! Smokey20 beat me to the response to your comment. Stategy in slowpitch softball??? Hit the ball!!!

Yes titanhd, the HR limits and the five run limit obviously are the main reason that the score are held down. Gives all teams a chance to win!

Dave is so good at scheduling, he actually knows what direction the wind will be blowing on a given day.
June 15, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Dave will tell you that
the game we played against GSF
in the winners bracket
was on a field with the wind blowing out
to right field and
the score was 12 to 8.
Softball is supposed to be
a hitters game
I've been admonished many times when talking about the importance of "D".
And hitters need/want/deserve/demand
good bats and balls.
None of our games were slugfests,
gaudy or imbalanced,
not one and we had a great time.
June 15, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Smokey, right on.
See you in Redwood City next weekend.
June 15, 2010
Omar Khayyam
989 posts
No, the game E4 longs for is called slow pitch softball in the 1950s, slow pitch softball in the 1960s, slow pitch softball in the 1970s, slow pitch softball in the 1980s, slow pitch softball in the 1990s, and slow pitch softball in the early years of this century before the advent of the composite bat wrenched the game away from the balanced game that I and most senior players played and loved for decades.

The aberration of weaker hitters like me becoming home run hitters is a very recent phenomenon. Today's game is dominated by the slugger and has lessened the importance of such time honored skills as fielding, base running, and strategy. Now it is bombs away and because it has become so dangerous with the lively bat/ball combo, there are all kinds of special rules and the game is in danger of being radically dumbed down as a result of soaring insurance premiums and thence the associations, understandably fearful of lawsuits.
June 15, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Smokey, Jawood, your condescending remarks are uncalled for.
You have your ideas about how our game should be played and many, like me have ours.
You are evidently not old enough to remember what defense and strategy are and how it can and in some cases still is played.
Like so many you may think its all about offense and how far you can hit a ball.
Unfortunately with todays game and equipment that may be right. Its a shame we have come to this.
June 15, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Enter the Usual Non-spects.
pushing for
a kinder, gentler game.
"Can't we all just get along?"
Sheeesh.

We had a GREAT time in Reno, guys
and we'll have a great time
at LVSSA just like the great majority of us did last year with lively
bats and balls.


June 15, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
For the most part, none of us really knows the history of each others playing career but the game itself as always been dominated by offense. Softball scores have pretty much been 20-30 run games for a long time and well before the advent of the composite bat.
June 16, 2010
Fastsam
Men's 60
55 posts
I agree Jawood. I remember playing with single walls and red dots and the scores were always in the 20 to 30's. I hit more Hr's then then now. My objective now is to hit 800 every tourny and hit long if needed. Not often just enough to keep the defense honest.
#32 ODB 1B
June 16, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tell 'em like it is, Sam and
Big Mike is gonna hit with us
this weekend in Redwood City.
June 16, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I would expect nothing less then full agreement from NorCal brothers. Like you have said over and over Joe, NCSSA professes the use of lively bats and balls. How fun it has become to watch balls fly by without much chance of making plays.
But that certainly doesnt come close to representing the true majority of Senior players.
As usual we will agree to disagree on this issue.
Good luck this weekend boys!
June 16, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Anyone ever watch Steele's, Bell Corp, Ritch's, etc. years ago? Bombs away softball has existed before, but really should not in the oldest and slowest group still playing.

Problem is the 5-run limit. It used to be you had to make three plays to "earn your ups", now you just have to be bad enough to give up five runs and you get to go hit. Just NOT how it was meant to be.
June 16, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
20-30 run games with all open innings is MUCH different than with run limits. You can't compare the two eras. If the innings were not capped now there would be much more than 20+ runs being scored. The eras are different because of special bats and consequent silly rules.
June 16, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
Dirty, agree with the Steele's Bell Corp. Ritch's, Smythe Sox, Marlton, Capitol bombing away in the past. They actually have HR limits at the Major level (kids) now which keeps the scores down some, but no run limit per inning of course.
June 16, 2010
Omar Khayyam
989 posts
einstein's addiction to superbats and lively balls has clouded his memory and he insults the great majority of his peers and specifically the stars of the past. Would he go up to the Men of Steele and tell them they were playing a "kinder, gentler game?"

Does he speak to the vast majority of senior players who have played slow pitch for decades, like me, and tell us that we were playing a kinder, gentler game and just trying "to all get along?"

Maybe einstein was playing a sissy game, but the rest of us were getting broken bones and bruises, sliding and colliding, straining and pulling muscles. Why? Because we were not just standing in a batter's box, waiting for our pitch that we could hit out with out super trampoline bat, but actively running and fielding and thinking and swinging.

We had a chance to take the extra base because most of the hits were not going over the fence or rolling to it like today where we can trot around the bases. We laid ourselves out fielding a grounder or a liner, not watching it whiz by us before we can take a step. We were hitting behind the batter because it was more effective than swinging away and upendidng a pitcher or infielder. Pitchers were standing 40 feet away because it wasn't lethally dangerous and they didn't have to armor up and peer through a mask or hide behind a screen.

And yes, most of us, unlike einstein, will testify that we had a GREAT time playing this game for 50 years, a game we loved when it was manly and hard-nosed and all skills were valuable, not just home run power. Lively bats and balls were NOT essential to have a great time then, and aren't today for the truly dedicated player who loves slow pitch as it has been played for decades.
June 16, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I just liked it better when I actually had to get three outs to be able to bat again, not just suck, give up five runs, and then get to hit.
June 16, 2010
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
Reno - 15 games were played in the 50+ major plus division in Carson City - 5 on field 4 with the wind blowing out and 10 on field 7 with the wind blowing in. The average total runs scored in games played on field 4 was 54.4. The average total runs scored in games played on field 7 was 44.3.
June 16, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
So then where are these 12-8 and 17-7 games being mentioned above?
June 16, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
I think some people are counting TOTAL combined score and some are counting each teams score.
June 16, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Exactly where I said they were, Gary.
We played the toughest team
in the tournament with the wind blowing
out to a 12 to 8 finish in 7 innings.
Only 3 home runs were hit.
Did I say these were 2 of the top 5
60's team in the country?
In the final against another team
in the top five the score was
22 to 5.
In the 50 major plus final
with the best, most lethal hitting
2 teams in the country
the score was 23 to 20.
These are undisputed facts
and characterize the kind of game
we played in Reno as well as
most of the games we play
across the board in senior ball.

We play in NorCal all the time
with good bats and balls and seldom
see gaudy, lopsided scores.
We're being hustled and shoved
by arrogant and ignorant people
and entities and it will become
more and more obvious who we are
and they are
and what we're up against
as time goes on.
Lively bats and balls are the only way
our game can be played.
This is obvious to most and is,
in fact, a majority opinion
that will become more apparent
all the time.
June 16, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
with all you people saying there were so many lo scoring games,tell me this how many good inning were cut short by run rule(5 or 7 whatever you were using),with no outs being made.that stat right there will skew the runs scored,instead of would have been scored.how much going out on defense and turning around and coming back without making an out against the offense.scores in senior ball are way out of wack b/c of the run rule per inning,and using that is not a good way to say how good teams are.AA vs M,AA can only hang with them with a limited runs per inning rule and may even be ahead their half of the open inning,M team comes up and scores the 1 more to win,and every one will say,see a AA can hang with a MM team.yeah right.
June 17, 2010
Fastsam
Men's 60
55 posts
We played 55 AAA and there was a total of 8, 0 run innings by our opponents and 7 by us. We went 3-3 in Reno. I know these teams can hit so some of us must play defense. We also reached our hr limit once. We play to win out here in Norcal not just hit hr's. We have players that can hit hr's but we choose to hit for the situation. And we take pride in our defense. Joe can attest to this I had six unassisted double plays at first base in last years Cal Cup. I'd call that playing defense. And we were playing major then. I take offense to the talk of Norcal players just being bombers. I know the majority of us get great satisfaction out of taking hits away. I know I do.
Sam # 32 ODB 1B
June 17, 2010
Fastsam
Men's 60
55 posts
And Joe tell Big Mike To keep swinging. He will be his monster self soon. Good luck in Redwood City. Hows Ronnie?
June 17, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Sam.
Ronnie's been killin' it in BP.
He's healthy again and working on his conditioning.
A legendary hitter/player
is back in the Bay Area
and will be fielding with us
in Redwood City.
It'll be fun.
June 18, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
Hi Fatsam-nice to see you posting. You guys have a great team. We just got hot in the seventh against you--btw the final for you all(Desperados over ODB) was 30-20, and I think we used all 6 hr's, right? We did have to earn the runs-you played good defense. Hope to see you guys again.
We had the wind blowing in hard from left all Sunday. Against R&R we lost 24-22, then won 22-10, but they tired out or would have been in the 20's easily. We had our max hr's anyway despite winds and a lot of us were hitting down to keep the ball in the park. Outside of a few games, you had to be in the 20's to win in 55AAA. And I agree that the 5 run cap keeps the scores down from what they would have been.We gave up 157 runs in 9 games and felt we played pretty good D. And that was against absolutely the best 55AAA players IN THE WORLD. :-) Ok, tongue-out of the cheek. I still feel a step back would not hurt our game and might make artificial caps like 5 runs an inning and 3 home runs obsolete. PLAY BALL!
June 19, 2010
Fastsam
Men's 60
55 posts
Thanks Webbie u guys raked us in the open. You have a great team also. Hope to see you guys soon somewhere. Congrats on a great tourny win.
S
June 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
well congrats to all the winners.my comment for the group is,where has all these great hitters gone if all these games were so low scoring.
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