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Discussion: Player Poll

Posted Discussion
July 6, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Player Poll
Someone correct me if I am wrong!!! But with all the discussions about balls/bats, rules & etc.; why cannot every SSUSA/SPA & other associations poll every player as to what they would like to use?

Has this been done? I know I have not been polled. I never wanted the Senior Bats; I was satisfied with what we were playing with; but since the transition I started swinging the SB.

Seems it would be very easy; get everyone's eeeeeee @ each tourney, compile a questionaire (with player input of course); & see what the majority wants.

Your thoughts.
PS I think SPA put some sort of questionaire together a few years ago.

Tater50
July 6, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Would like to add; ask such questions as:
1. What bat/ball combo to use?
2. Courtesy Runners per inning
3. HR/outs or HR/walk
4. Home Plate as a strike?

Tater50
July 6, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
(1) Equal bats and balls for all if possible????? Don't matter to me. (2) I like the rule that if you pass 1st and make it to second you do not get a runner, but if you can only make it to 1st and need one you can get one. Per inning 2 only. (3) 3 and a walk in pool and 3 and a out in bracket suits me. (4) I'm too easy I guess either way suits me I guess the whole purpose of this is to speed up the game and to make you swing the bat, works for me. All in all I just WANT TO PLAY BALL EVERY DAY LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE AND PLAY BALL THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH DAYS LEFT!!!!!!!!! I do like the hot bats but it does't seem to be much different than back when we had hot hot balls and single and double wall bats only difference is the bats dont last and they cost 2,3,4 times as much as they did back 20 years ago. I'm not hard to get along with I JUST WANT TO PLAY BALL!!!!!!!! You never know when it might all END.
July 6, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
I think that you could find the results of the SPA poll somewhere. The only answer I found was that %7.5 or 121 out of 1579 didn't like 1.20 bats. I don't know if they were referring to all 1.20 bats or just senior bats.

GaMan, I couldn't agree more. "KEEP IT SIMPLE AND PLAY BALL THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH DAYS LEFT !!!!!!!!!!
July 6, 2011
Tim Millette
499 posts
I can understand voting for a softball ball but, there is no way the senior bats should be done away with untill the game gets the altered bat technology under control.

The number one reason I like senior ball is because for the first time since the youngsters figured ou how to alter a bat to create a shaved bitchstix I have been able to believe the legal bat I am swinging is on par with the bat the cheaters are using.

Untill there is no way to alter the make up of a bat, all of you guys wanting to eliminate the senior bats have no idea what your in for.

If you think the senior bats are bad for the game... go play a game using legit youngster bats against the kids using altered shaved bitchstixs that are every bit as good as the senior bats.
July 6, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Great point, Timmy.
Richie Navarro mentioned the same thing to me yesterday
coming up from the 40's this year.
The senior bats equalize the playing field so no one has the advantage.
and that's just one of the reasons why our game rocks
and the 40's in NorCal can't wait to join.
July 7, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Tim: I agree great point; I have not played against the young guys in awhile. I used the bat/ball combo as an example.

Just wondering why there is not a "constant poll each year" among players to keep up w/the heartbeat of the SSB game. Maybe if we give enough gentlemanly feedback, they will comply. I, like my Bro. GaCman, will play for the fun of it & also for the awesome cookouts that his wife & he conduct @ the tourneys; they have a great personality also (gave him that compliment so that I will get extra shrimp this next tourney!!!)

As far as cheaters: I have always contended that a cheater will cheat no matter what. I won't cheat & started a thread a few years ago "on my honor" not to cheat & I will live by that. As most people know I can stretch a double into a single with ease!!!

Plate/strike: play all the years, then come to SSB & OOPS, there it is! Do not like this rule, but then again, I don't pitch.

ALL safety measures: dbl base/dbl plate, I am in total agreement.

Tater50

July 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
GaCMan, great point! Nothing more absurd than some guy legging out a double and then needing a runner. Just ridiculous.

How guys put up with this kind of rule is beyond me.
July 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tater.
We already know the answer.
The associations already know the answer.
The better bat/ball combo rules
for the kids as well as us
but the kids don't have the lobbying capability,
experience, money and savvy that we do.

The kids go for cheater bats because
there's never been real punishments/deterrents put in place
(manufactureres/TD's didn't want to lose any revenue)
and it's their insurance that they won't be screwed by some TD
cheaping out or trying to mess with us around the balls.
TD's were worried about losing too many balls and not making enough profit or about games slowing down so much from retrieving
balls that they couldn't get enough innings in.
And yes there are some problems that need to be addressed
but NEVER
and let me say NEVER carefully
NEVER at the expense of the bat ball combo.
It effectively neuters us and our game and it will NEVER
EVER work for ALL the right reasons.


July 7, 2011
perly
88 posts
Tater ands GaCman, looking forward to this weekend in Lawrenceville.

I agree the Summit Organizations could poll every registered player on numerous issues and give the players what they want. Don't look for this to happen though because of cost and other issues. I believe better organizations have thier finger on the pulse and already gear rules to what they think is best for the game.

I play USSSA with a young team on occasions and the vast majority of the guys swing shaved bats. A good shaved bat is better than any senior bat.

There are some things in senior softball that could be approved but messing with the bat/ball combination might be a big mistake.

KEEP IT SIMPLE AND PLAY BALL!!!!!!

July 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
tim,perly,the cheaters(and there are some in senior play) are the very reason i advocate using the 52 ball,you can not get an advantage with a shaved/painted/rolled bats using this ball,all bats are basically equal.it is to bad the cheaters make it bad for the rest of us.........
July 7, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
There is no senior summit. As far as rule changes the best way to get something instituted is to attend the annual rules conventions that SSUSA and I believe SPA have. Current rules, proposed rules and changes are discussed and voted on. I attended one several years ago and I would recommend this to anyone who is passionate. Webbie25 attended I'm sure he can vouch for what I am saying. As for the 52 ball I would be shocked if this ever got to a vote in SSUSA. It was tested several years ago in NORCAL and I would be shocked if it was ever entertained. Somebody like SPA or LVSSA would have to take the lead and see attendance spike to the plus side before a ball change occurs. I don't believe it is an insurance issue either since recently SSUSA has gotten Big League Dreams to allow Senior bats in their facilities (at least here in Vegas they did). I'm with Tim on the bat issue until they get the altered bats on the non senior bats under control or completely eliminate composite Pandora's box would be opened by going to non senior composites. If you want change go to the rules conventions propose your changes and vote. It works.
July 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
lecak, the 52 ball would be the answer to the cheating,no bat hits it any better than the next,cheater bat or other wise.i am playing with the kids now using it,and have no prol getting my hits(i'm 61),and they don't try and crowd me or anything like that.i have hit a bunch off the fence and a couple over and we are using non-senior bats,so there it is,if i can do it,all these so called great hitters should be able to do it.to me it is players who afraid of their own skill level that don't want to use this ball,it travels well and doesn't die in the heat like the trump stotes will do,in fact this ball will out perform the stote in hi heat conditions.
July 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
mad dog, any idea how widely this ball is being used? I have not seen or heard of any around here, but it sounds interesting.
July 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
usssa uses it for their ball now along with the 40-325 ball(which is crap in hi heat,but flys when the temps are below 70).ASA has now approved the 52 for play,along with NSA,now these 2 assoc also have their 44 balls still in use.if you go to SBF and read the main board they have a thread right now going.

look for USSSA leagues and see if they are following the strict ball rules.
July 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
oh forgot to add,all the dallas utrip tourneys use this ball now.
July 7, 2011
DCPete
238 posts
Our local leagues have been using the Trump Stote 52/275 ball (with non-senior bats) for 2 years now & it's an absolute cantelope when the temperature gets above 80.
And sadly, while MD may be right about all bats being equal with a 52 ball, we've had way more rumors & accusations of shaved/juiced and/or rolled bats than we ever had with the 44/375 ball (using ASA bats).
Home runs have become almost extinct and outfielders are playing so far in on the singles hitters that they are trying to throw the runners out on force plays on a clean single.
Overall a very disappointing experiment . . .
July 7, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Maddog my point is if you or anyone else wants the ball to change I don't believe it will happen via this message board. Someone would need to work through SSUSA and get it as an agenda item for their rules convention. Based on the testing they did I do not see this getting to a vote. The other option would be to convince SPA or LVSSA to convert to the 52 ball. You probably know Ridge better than I do pick up the phone and ask him if he is entertaining it. That would be a huge leap of faith for any association to change. What the kids are doing has no relevance to what SSUSA, LVSSA or SPA does. I got no dog in this fight but going back and forth on a message board will not get the change you desire.
July 7, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Lecak: most cannot attend the SS.
Perly: I will play with what the majority rule on; but why is it so expensive to poll? Seems everyone could give their eeeee at each tourney & over the winter a compilation of questions could be eeeed to the SSB players.

Einstein: "It effectively neuters us and our game and it will NEVER EVER work for ALL the right reasons."

I am not trying to remove the balls/bats; I was giving an opinion that I was OK with what we were using before; I would just like for "ALL" players to be able to give their input. A yearly poll should not be that hard; but maybe I am missing something. If the poll results in using the same bat/ball combo that we now use, so be it; but we are the ones paying the funds, so polling us is the correct method for our game.

Tater50
July 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bat cheaters and bat doctors are thickly in the pursuit of the 52 core sock.
They get to be back in business without impunity anymore.
Any old bat doctors or makers and users on the board right now?

It's a little messy right now with some of the rules changes
but essentially we are using a good enough bat/ball combo to sustain interest and investment.
I/we will NEVER go with a lesser combo and my argument that the kids
use shaved/loaded bats to make sure they can hit the ball well
is the CRUX of the matter.
All the smoke about the new ball is again the result of a movement
by Sad Dog and a couple of ardent entrepreneurs who tried to kill the entire
bat/ball market in favor of their own investments.
American and legal but self centered and to NO AVAIL, I'm happy to say.

Players fundamentally don't cheat or want to cheat.
Who really thinks this is true and why, one must ask.
They only do it when they feel they are being punked, taken advantaged of or denied
the experience that is fundamental
to ALL softball experience i.e. a lively bat/ball combo.

This thing has gotten out of hand but as Tater and DC have alluded
it's basically right about the bat/ball combo for seniors and should be the same
for the kids, too.

How come if cheating is so rampant, no one is caught or thrown out of softball, eh?
There's NO movement to bust cheaters which is essential to fairness and maintaining
order in our ranks.
Why not, you MUST ask.

The little lobby is saying that cheaters and cheating doesn't matter.
Everybody does it so let's move to a shitty ball.
No SAD DOG, everyone is not cheating son
only some and usually those who say everyone is doing it
and who stand to profit the most from saying so.

Just say no and they can't/won't dare
roll us over because we will walk
and start our own association.
There's one starting in NorCal right now largely because of all this
discord and nonsense about bats and balls.



July 7, 2011
stick8
1318 posts
Tater50 I'd add two more questions:
Why have run limits every inning?
Why give a team classified at a level below your team 5 extra runs or an extra fielder?
July 7, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
The senior game today is a result of exactly what you propose. Every check that arrives at the Sacramento office is a vote for what is currently offered, and every single change made and new idea tried, over these last few years, is for all of you in senior softball from your legitimate suggestions and concerns.

Every local senior tournament and senior league entry fee is a vote for what is offered. Here in Washington State we're non-profit and essentially volunteer run and we play March to September. I believe we offer more and cost about 25% less than what the other organizations offer younger players. We're smart enough and have the initiative to do it ourselves, our way. When we were younger we paid others to do it the way they thought was best. That's not good enough for us.

It's hard to make this leap, but Terry, Fran, Dave, George and the rest are in it for us. They are a big part of "our" senior softball. Include them when you think "we". "They" don't exist and "they" don't get it done. "We" are senior softball and "we" get it done!

To maintain a business model that can be sustained and keep 'em coming, we must listen, and we do. If they quit coming it will either change or the competition (what competition?) will put "us" out of business. The challenge is to listen to all and assess the trends, and know when it's time for a particular change.

ShaneV
July 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Stick.
You're a terrific hitter.
I've pitched against you a number of times in major plus.
But you are wrong because you're an elite player with a high degree of skill that is intelligently practiced and earned and would be able to get your game off swinging with the barrel in your hands.
The most of the players will lose when and if the bat ball combo goes farther south
and I for one will walk.
It's the regular players who need/deserve the fun, the motivation
and edge to keep coming back and investing and working out and on their games.
The lively bats and balls suits their needs and wants.
Don't you get it.
These guys who want us to go the lesser combo
don't love regular players and our game.
Think of who they are, work for and what they represent, Stick.
C'mon man.

Lively bats and balls are a must and let's start busting and punishing cheaters
like we're supposed to and not be afraid of losing a couple of dollars and players while doing it.
Just like they should have done the Steroid era,
we should give everyone a date to clean up their act
and then start burying players who then violate.

The associations got this right, Stick.
They know the most of players are from major, AAA and AA.
By making them happy and having something to play for keeps the whole
the body of us alive and well.
Make it too tough and there'll be only 3 teams playing with that equipment in the whole country.
We'll just bounce left a step or two and do what we want here in NorCal.
Rest assured.

The bat ball combo, Stick
MUST BE LIVELY.
There is NO other choice to found and ground our game.
None.

July 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
lecak,i personally don't care if they do or don't change the ball,i'm just saying that if we need to make it safer for us senior players,we need to look into this ball for senior softball,as the other assoc's have done so in theirs.ssusa has already acknowledge the game is dangerous with the release to pitch,or requirement of helmet and shin guards.

whiney,please show me where i'm gonna profit from going to this ball so i know where i can go pick up my check,or who to email so i can tell them where to send it.OH i'm not getting one penny from anyone,so please where do you get all this drivel,that you can not prove.as usual you throw crap on the wall to see if any will stick,so far it is all on the floor as nothing has stuck yet.please give me some facts if you can,oh you can't.....
July 7, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
How did a discussion on what we would like to have in our game keep reverting back again and again to the 52 ball. Again and again and AGAIN in this thread. It's like a broken record or an unending commercial.

As I recall everyone that tried that thing had a very negative opinion of it. I believe the board also had a straw poll which resoundingly sent that ball down in flames.

If someone were to design a ball to directly destroy/implode the game - the 52 would be the one.

Let's see - you have to change your swing from what you've learned to get it to carry. Which implies that either you'd have to alter your swing once away from a good ball and bat combo for a certain association or tournament - or - all associations would have to conform and use it to keep the continuity in the game.

The ball is abysmal. No carry - worse in heat - an absolute head hunter on hops through the infield picking up speed and bad hops along the way after watching this thing on the infield it wouldn't be safe for even a coed game that had proficient men hitting. Much more negatives than the unproven supposed plusses based on the therory that we are not protected enough with what we are using now - please don't insult us.

If a ball akin to this were to be forced on - let's say golf who the h*ll would want to go out and play golf under those conditions.

This thing won't save softball. It will be the ruin of it. The cash registers will stop turning because the players are going to spend the money doing what make them happy. That either means playing in the associations that use the good bat and ball combos - or - spending their money in other areas of their lives that give them more satisfaction. Who now a days wants to spend time, effort, travel, and money to go out and play an inferior game. Already the regional associations offering what the players want are seeing healthy, robust turn outs. With the increased ecconomics in traveling it makes sense that the players will play where they are happy.

The 52 ball does not make folks happy. If a city, league, or association were to mandate it it would probably be their death knell.

I do agree that some appear to be promoting the use of this ball. And they seem quite happy to inject/commercialize it at every opportunity.

We have a good game here - don't fork it up.



July 8, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
ShaneV: "The challenge is to listen to all and assess the trends." A Constant yearly Player Poll in the organizations will accomplish this.

MadDog: "i personally don't care if they do or don't change the ball." MD is thinking of safety; these & others ideas can be pursued via PP.

Stick8: "Why have run limits every inning?" I am totally w/you on this; I get beat 8-7 or 30-12, I still got beat. Run rule or time limit or combo.

BTW: where did this 5 RPI start in the first place. I played SSB since 99 w/o this rule & we got beat, we walked out & gave the other team a hand shake & vowed to give them a better game next round.

Personally; I have a lot of thoughts, but that is Tater50's input, but I am one of thousands; everything cannot be as "I" want it.

Everyone pulling in opposing directions only causes confusion & fragments SSB & many get discouraed & direct their attentions to something else. "Organized Effort" accomplishes the better goal. A pleased majority will keep contentment & SSB players coming back tourney after tourney.

The heartbeat can be felt be a "Yearly PP".

Tater50
"Semi-Contented"
July 8, 2011
stick8
1318 posts
Einstein I appreciate the props but I consider myself remarkably average. Guys like Bob Woldyke, Ron Parnell, Vern Hensley and many others like them--those are the skilled professionals!! I think you may have repsonded to a message I put up in another thread but no biggy. I have no issue with the bats and balls we use. My point was if bats and balls were dumbed down the senior game wouldn't cease to exist. Too many people love to play
July 8, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
I agree with you Stick8-too many people love to play. Lecak is right about the yearly meeting for SSUSA. Every issue is seriously discussed in meetings, in groups outside the official meetings, and I know Terry, Fran, Dave...shoot everybody was available, talked to us and LISTENED. SSUSA is successful because of that.
I have talked to a lot of people while playing in the last year and I do believe the majority are fine with the current bat/ball combo. Nobody mentions consistency, but I believe the 44/375 is as consistent as any ball I've played with. When they start messing with softballs to change the game, the consistency goes to pot. It did especially with the RF80.
I do admit to wishing the days of a home run being special would come back. A game where you aren't looking at the situation when you hit to determine if a homer is warranted, or good for the team. A game where, if you get a pitch in the first inning that you like, with nobody on, you could take it yard and it meant something. A game where the "oops, sorry, I didn't mean to hit it 350 feet" comment disappears. A day where the home run out doesn't exist. Talk about an oxymoron.
That being said-I will be playing whatever game they give us until the Lord decides I can't anymore.
July 8, 2011
LP
297 posts
i'm with you webbie25 i like thw bats/ball that we use, i liked it when ssusa played the one up rule with home runs it evened out a base hitting team and a power team, what i would like to see is a real commitment line going to home, have it 25 feet from third instead of 20 feet from home, someone running all that way aint going to run 45 feet back to third. we put it 25 feet from third in league play and in does make a great drifferane in the game.
July 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
people get your facts straight please,the 52 does not die in the heat,in fact it is better than the 44 stotes that are used now.i just played a tourney with them in 95 degree heat and had no prol hitting them(11-13,2-2b,1- 3b)and played hitting into the wind 3 out of 4 games,i play in league with them here in this texas heat and they still go out,with the wind crossing from left toward right.so please get your facts straight about this ball and the heat.

oh by the way,why would anyone in their right mind want to spend the money to shave a bat when it will do nothing for ya to hit this ball,i guess just real stupid people.so how is this gonna help the doc's stay in business,that was a real bright statement,whiney,its not.....


and yes people will still play,no matter what equipment is to be used.
July 8, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
As usual Robert you are less than the argument
as your hippocracy continues to grow.
You said earlier you don't care about which ball we use and then come in
defending that piece of crap in the heat.
We've already as 4x4 said, made our judgment about that piece of crap
and the associations have too.
I just like to remind everyone you represent none but yourself and you're 52x275 friends
and associates.
You're a mess Robert but you deserve to play
softball with the rest of us even if you didn't have one wit left in your head
and it sounds like you're getting close.

The general playing public need to know as 4x4 pointed out
that that piece of crap is not a viable alternative to solve any of the problems of our game.
And to make whatever judgments they will have about those who promote and continue
to support it.
These are not of us, don't represent us, don't speak for us and have no credibility with us
on this issue and others as in Robert's case.


July 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
hey whiney quit smoking what ever they are giving you out of those clinics up there,it really has clouded up what little thinking power you have left.i have always said i would play with what ever ball the assoc decides to play with,that does that mean i can't champion for a safer game for the senior player,hell no.i do it against the kids and their use of the cheater sticks,do i still play,hell yes i do and will continue to play.so please take your drivel and put it to some use and do some fact finding instead of just throwing crap out there.the 52 ball will out perform the stote any day of the week in hi heat,like i have said it has been proven here in texas,in the heat and humidity.so where do your facts come from.oh thats right you don't have any,you just get up on your soapbox and try and sell your chicken little theory.
July 8, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Keep talking Robert as you do you just get deeper and deeper into the water of your oblivion
from whence you came.
You talk out of every side of your mouth
and think you have ANY credibility with us?
What a joke?

Why not tell us what your friends have told me numerous times about you when you were here
regarding bats/balls and softball in general.
How come you know so much about fixed
and shaved bats?
Enlighten us, would you?

You're a small time hustler linked
to bigger hustlers in this self centered movement
to kill our game and when we call you on it
you try to wiggle away.
Cute but gutless and not manly enough to earn any respect from us Robert and here's the capper.
You did it to yourself.
July 8, 2011
DCPete
238 posts
MD - curious what 52 ball you are using? We've been using the Stote 52 ball and it's been terrible in the heat; in fact it says right on the box "Heat sensitive - Do not store in trunk" which of course everyone does since where else you gonna put them?
July 8, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
I'm getting too old and caring to want
to go after anyone anymore, truth be told.
Let it be said you and I disagree about
important aspects of playing softball,
what's going on and what's best for our future.
I don't like the way I feel going at you
after a perceived slight/slur by you.

I'm done with it unless whatever you say
forces me to respond to you.

You're OK, Robert.
We all make mistakes.
Even me.
And hopefully we learn which is what we're all about anyway, i.e. living and learning.

As I said before I'm not any good
at kicking anyone's ass
because in the long run
we're all children of God, aren't we.
I'm just real good
at keeping anyone from kicking mine.

July 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
dcpete
i have used the worth hot dot usssa ball(classic+),the ad starr nsa 52 ball,the trump x-rock asa ball,trump 52 no assoc stamp ball,and one other 52 trump asa ball that i'll have to check on monday at league to see what it is,so far the ad starr seems to be the best of the bunch,but they are all real close in performance.also you can not just mash these balls,and center hit them will cause them to knuckle.you need to get them back spinning just like any other ball that travels well,these will go,maybe not 400',but i have seen them out in the 350' range easily.

whiney,still waiting for my question to be answered,who am i gonna be paid by to make me rich off this 52 ball.who am i hustling with?

well unless your a ostrich with its head in the ground,most all players know about bat shaving and painting.there have been studies done on the performance of the 52 ball with all types of bats,maybe you should look them up,i did.so before you try and run down someone else's rep,maybe you should look in your own back yard,or at least check you facts,if you dare go and really look,its called Google on your computer.
July 8, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The war is over Robert.
Have fun playing softball.
I will, too.
July 9, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Tater.
Great questions at the beginning of the thread.
Sorry for some distracting comments.
You said:

Would like to add; ask such questions as:
1. What bat/ball combo to use?
2. Courtesy Runners per inning
3. HR/outs or HR/walk
4. Home Plate as a strike?

1. bat ball combo needs to be lively
nothing less than VERY Good 375x44 ball (MCT Stote)
and senior bats.
2. I don't care
3. HR's as walks which is not only more fun/offensive
but keeps hot balls off the pitcher
4. Home plate as strike is good but I would add
judgment call by ump regarding normal strike zone
to give pitchers more to work with

Great questions and thanks.
July 9, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
well i will take that as a concession on your part with your failure to answer my questions.


tater
1)senior bats/52 ball

2)1 CR per inning,put some thought into it

3)keep hr limits as is,except make the M+ higher or unlimited.there should be no reason to hit middle if hrs are gone,only punks will do that for an excuse b/c there are no hrs left,if your any good what so ever you can stay away from the pitcher,or your hitting at the pitcher all game long.

4)strike zone is good as it is,maybe a little bigger.
July 9, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
What has changed since the 60's and 70's thanks to lawyers
and corrupt thinking is the natural assumption of risk
in anything/everything we do.
Anyone now who gets hurt doing anything
can find a lawyer to take someone into court to sue.
It's disgusting and it's licentious character has infected our culture and society with demonstrable and lethal effect.

We have in softball a movement to make our game
kinder and gentler and the biggest reason is because of lawyers and insurance companies which can always be battled
by other lawyers and insurance companies.
But, in the meantime, we can't play our game
as it was meant to be played
with a reasonable assumption of risk
where no one need be/should be sued
when an injury takes place as sad as that can be.

Let's take the sad situation in Texas this weekend
with that poor fireman losing his life going for a ball
tossed with wonderful intentions by one of the Texas Rangers.
Anyone who goes to any game in any big league park or any park
for that matter must realize and accept the danger
inherent with seating, gravity and flying hard objects.
It amazes me more fans aren't crippled and killed
by screaming foul balls ripped into the stands evert year.

All to say,
the kinder gentler movement in senior softball
we have witnessed is a product of our social decline
and abdication of integral responsibility by individuals
in our society which should have checked the lawyers
and taking advantage of each other
at the door.

We have an oppty in Senior ball to make our stand
which we have just about done
and let us assume the necessary risk
in doing/playing/breathing/living anywhere
at any time in any society including the softball field
and stand against the lobby that would deprive us
of our right and need to play hard and have fun.

Without the risk/danger there would be no adrenaline
and excitement and energy to perform or protect ourselves
in expressive, creative and athletic ways.

A word to the wise...
July 9, 2011
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
Gary19, I am a person who currently would need a pinch-runner after hitting a double or triple (however unlikely that might be). Because of the blood thinner I am taking, I can't risk getting hit by a line drive while running the bases (by doctor's "orders"). So please reconsider whether this is "absurd" or not.
July 10, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Jano, a one-in-a-thousand chance of a guy needing a runner like you do does not disprove my point. Every guy on the board knows a ton of players who only get run for because the guy off the bench is faster, and has nothing to do with a rare medical situation like you have.
July 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
jano i hope you don't play any defense then....also if it is that bad,then why put yourself at risk to play,just asking.....you could get hit by a thrown ball.....
July 10, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
Tater,Perly and I hashed on this topic this weekend and even us as teamates had some different opinions. After that and reading these posts I really think Tater is right do a poll of everyone and I'm assuming everyone that plays is registered with either spa,ssusa and see what the players want. Use the player registration number to track who or help keep crooks from stuffing the polling box!!!!!!We can argue over this just talking or posting every once in awhile but will never really know what players really want. There are only a few who are passionate enough about the game to get on here and debate this and thats great, but at the same time everyone should have some input, if you are a registered player. There are a lot of players that will never voice there opinion otherwise, seems to me this would speak for us and put some of this to rest at least till the next poll, WHY NOT????????? LET THE PLAYERS MAKE THE CALL!!!!
July 10, 2011
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
Gary, I'm not trying to disprove your point, just saying that not all people getting pinch runners are faking it.
Mad Dog, one has to find a compromise, right? I don't play infield, just catcher and starting to play again in the outfield. When hitting, I try to watch out for throws from SS or 3B as I run to first.
July 11, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Why make a big deal about runners anyway...Who cares...It is a rule just like any other. Our team has guys that are good runners and that is one of the main reasons that we are successful...What is the harm?????I get a runner almost everytime I get on, even after an extra base hit...I have two knee replacements...At the very least by having runners it increases the number of people that can enjoy the game.
July 11, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Guys actually enjoy just running? In slow-pitch?

Can we start having courtesy throwers who just stand next to fielders with worse arms and make throws for them? You never know when that fielder has a "bad shoulder", you know.
July 11, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Gary19-Wonderful idea!!! I knew we would agree someday-a stand-in thrower for a fielder that can catch and not throw. Puts another player on the field. Are you also going to make the runner go slower or stop completely while the transfer of the ball to the thrower is taking place so they have a chance to throw someone out? CT's forever!!
July 11, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
CR's are the one thing in senior ball i don't care for,if your able to run and especially get 2 bases on your hit than i feel ya don't need one.to many teams abuse this rule,just by inserting a faster runner for a slower one,if you are disable for some reason ya maybe,but if your able bodied and just slow.no way.a lot of you guys say you play for the exercise,where is that when you are getting a CR all the time.i say no more than 1 an inning to stop the abuse,oh and i don't know of anyone who will travel hundreds of miles just to CR only ..........
July 11, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
If you make it to first and need a runner fine but if you go further no CR best runner rule we have ever had!!! Stops a lot of runners just for extra speed. I also think this is a much abused part of the game.

1 GOOD BATS AND BALLS
2 MAKE IT TO FIRST AND NEED RUNNER FINE ANYTHING PAST FIRST NO RUNNER
3 ONE UP ON HRS AFTER 3
4 STRIKE ZONE IS FINE

LIKE THIS LINE DON'T FORK IT UP!!!!!!!
KEEP IT SIMPLE,LETS PLAY BALL, THERE ARN'T ENOUGH DAYS LEFT!!!!!!
July 11, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
g-man,why even then.i have seen perfectly healthy players,who just happen to be slow(only thing wrong with them,or maybe just lazy)have CR's,why.it was meant for the injure player who still wants to play,not an offensive weapon for teams.

keep the hr limits b/c if you don't teams will be sandbagging worse than they are now.let the M+ guys have theirs,but the lower divs need the limits with outs for over the limits.if you don't think so,then you should be playing up.

jano please be careful,i don't want to read about you getting hurt....
July 11, 2011
Donny C
54 posts
I play on a elders team in Northern MI. Last year all teams had to use wooden bats, as an experiment for a couple of weeks only. The league had purchased four bats of which everyone used. It slowed the game down considerable. The scores were much lower and it equalized a lot of teams. There were no home runs hit over the fence. It was fun to play as my team is very poor and we actually almost won a game or two; we have not won a game in three years now. The league voted on not using wooden bats after that experiment. I enjoy the good bats and balls and always have. I recall when a team in about 1970 got a Louisville "hot bat," as far as I know the fist metal bat. From there it went to nothing but metal and now composite. I purchased a metal bat for $18.00 at that time. Technology has always made better equipment I see no one using the old three finger gloves anymore, seems that we all use the best we can afford. I love hitting a ball as hard as I can, who does'nt and a miken 2 allows me to do so. I pitch and play third and yes at times I get hit or miss a hard shot but really no more than in the 70's. A hard shot at a pitcher with a wooden bat still comes fast for that short distance. I enjoy a game much more when we use good balls. No doubt we have all used those old balls with sawdust in them, pumpkins we called them it took too much out of the game and made playing third pretty easy. I say use the good equipment as there are other leagues/tournys that use lesser if you would rather play that. We have the choice of what kind of game we want to play. Play hard and above all else have fun. Donny C.
July 11, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
mad dog I agree with you that most of the crs are used as offensive inputs but some are not.

use the one up and it still holds the other team back unless you hit one up then they can get another one.

on the hr deal it really doesn't bother me as we hardly ever use ours up anyway.

I still say poll all registered players and lets get a consensus from the players!!!!!
KEEP IT SIMPLE,LETS PLAY BALL, THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DAYS LEFT!!!!!!!!!!
July 11, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
g-man in the lower divs they should not be hitting that many to begin with,1 for AA is more than enough for the oopsie hr,AAA gets 3 that is plenty for them,now maybe the M can play 1-up but have it start after 5 hrs are hit and any hit otherwise should be an out,the M+ teams should have at least 10 or more for their limit as they are at the top.


donny c as a hitter you always want the hottest stuff out there,just our nature,but do we want it at the cost of injuring seriously or killing just 1 person.
July 11, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Records are mean't to be broken and rules change all the time....Why are some of you so concerned about all the small stuff???? Life is too short...Enjoy the game and the people who are still playing!!!!!!!!!!!!! If there is a rule that you can use to win use it... It would be stupid to not use the rules to your advantage...Some of you talk as if Moses brought the rules of the game down with the Ten Commandments.......Just a comment...........
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