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Discussion: Out after 3 Home Runs

Posted Discussion
Dec. 31, 2012
Silk11
Men's 50
41 posts
Out after 3 Home Runs
IN AAA...The new rule change has made me glad I'm not a pitcher... An out instead of a walk, here comes buzzing the tower!
Dec. 31, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
AAA,isn't that a division of base hitters? Then as a pitcher in AAA, IMO, one should always be ready to field a ball back up the middle. I see no problem in hitting at the middle. M and M+ always hit middle.

The problem I see is when a team can hit more than 3 home runs a game and they play AAA, when in fact they should be in the Major division. Yea, All you AAA Sandbaggars.
No Love for the Sandbaggar, who loves beating up on the Weak. Yea, I said it.
Dec. 31, 2012
Silk11
Men's 50
41 posts
With the bats we use and the rock hard balls, its not being a sandbagger!
Dec. 31, 2012
the wood
1096 posts
Silk: you must feel pretty strongly seeing as you posted it 3 times.
This theory has been voiced many times in the past. Sort of the 'earth is flat' type of thinking. When M+ rules had DBOs were used I saw no evidence that pitchers were in any kind of increased danger. It's almost the Pavlovian response to DBOs.
BW
Dec. 31, 2012
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
so your saying,that you have no bat control,or don't know how to hit properly,but just swing as hard as you can.......as kennard said,AAA doesn't need anymore than 3 hrs a game,with all others being outs....if ya wanna hit more as a team you need to be playing in a higher div....
Dec. 31, 2012
GI
Men's 60
168 posts
I disagree on several fronts. 1. As a pitcher for last 30 years if I am afraid of a line drive I should have moved to another spot 30 years ago. Come to think of it I could have saved alot of money on shin Guards Helmet face mask etc but I pay for a car that has safety belts so I guess somethings you just have to have for safety. Canljack loved your note. Yes I to call it sandbagging when you continue to win tournaments but do not move up or like in worlds this year in Vegas playing Texas team that went 5-0 and won it all hitting homeruns 3 of first 4 batters in 1st inning or hitting many singles over fence rest of game not to mention line drives off the fence. I am glad they will I hope anyway be moved to Major or higher, Other teams also that continue to beat up on 55 AAA competetion or other divisions need to move on. I can tell you we had to after a great year 3 years ago and despite losing over half our team the next year we played up in major took out lumps and losses all year. Tough but I understood process. It's called winning. Hitting 3 homeruns a game may be okay in AAA even with great bats although our CJS Express team did not do that very often last year Maybe why we did not win a tournament last year,,,, But hitting more than 3 should be a out in AAA and I suspect should be outs for higher div. when they reach their limits but I will stick with AAA level. I look forward to another season against all you teams in 55 AAA and I will be glad to serve youa homerun up after 3 homeruns if it will make you feel better. Guys will tell you that I am good at that anyway. Hugs to all of you, Just blessed to be on the field many of our friends from past year cannot say that. On a good nore CJS coach barry is now home from hospital with some new valves and a pacemaker. Hope to see him back whenever possible in 2013.Remember if you hit me to hard up middle you get my wife, kids and grandchildren as part of deal. Just kidding. GI
Dec. 31, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Silk-I played AAA for 6 yrs and most years were 3 hr's and an out. (there are no teams rated higher where I live). Now that I play M+ it has become obvious that I was hitting down a lot. But, I rarely drove the middle doing it. Everybody uses the 'rock hard balls', which really are very soft compared with the balls of yesteryear, and the rules are set up with that bat/ball combo in mind. As canIjack says, if you don't like the HR rule, move up.
Dec. 31, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
GI-I miss your pitching. (LOL) Have a safe and happy new year, my friend.
Dec. 31, 2012
tall_thunder
Men's 50
13 posts
Hey, I play with the Arizona BullDawgz, first base, and I'm all in favor of the 3 Homer rule. If you need more than that then you should move up. Looking forward to the New Year. Be safe Guys.
Jan. 1, 2013
GI
Men's 60
168 posts
Webbie I miss you to my friend , Hard to believe you bat leadoff, I would not care to see you bat a extra time and you were good enough to hit line drives for hits when homeruns were used up.Hapy New year off to hit this morning.
Jan. 1, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
225 posts
I will play by whatever the rules are, but I continue to state that the 70' bases had a greater impact in our games than the homeruns. Played in the 50 AAA. Aloha, Fabe
Jan. 1, 2013
Bighurt3535
25 posts
Say what ya want when you are out of home runs. The middle of field is open this idea of limiting home runs is stupid most pitchers at this age level cannot defend against these bats and balls m+ or m,AAA this is just a bad idea . The.rule.should be three home runs and then walks has worked.well this far. If a team is hitting butloads of homers then the ssusa should move them up the following year. IMO
Jan. 1, 2013
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
so it is ok for a team to blast away in AAA and win it,rather then step up and take on a challenge in the M div.....that is what we call sandbagging big time....AAA is perfect with 3 hrs....as for hitting middle b/c hrs are gone,well learn to hit,not that hard,try instead of trying to make it a hr derby.....what do you do if there is no one on base,just hit it out for your ego...come on man.........
Jan. 1, 2013
Bighurt3535
25 posts
Didn't say teams should blast away let's face it.with the bats and.balls we use anyone.can hit balls out . I play in.a.league here.and they.allow three home runs when they are gone guys start blasting middle. Tell me.why that would.change.with the older guys. I just think its a dumb rule.I was on the receiving end of this in Florida in the fall,we played the team that won it and they.must of hit fifteen home runs against us, but if you talk to our pitcher I bet he was glad that the.old rule was in place. Because if it wasn't in place he.would have got lit up.and then we would try to protect our pitcher and it just gets ugly from there.
Jan. 1, 2013
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
why is it that they felt the need to hit middle,there is just as big of a hole between 5-6 and 3-4 holes....saying that you have to hit middle b/c hrs are gone is just complete crap....hell i play with the kids in a no hr league and there is no lighting up the middle....oh and i pitch....that team that hit 15 hrs is a prime example of sandbagging,unless you were playing in a mixed div tourney(aka M,M+ playing in an AAA bracket)......AAA does NOT need extra balls going out of the park without them being outs...and yes i also pitch in senior ball with no prols with it.....
Jan. 1, 2013
Bighurt3535
25 posts
Well I am.glad you pitch maybe its different where you are from but here in Illinois these fools light up the pitcher until.you retaliate or.they find out your.pitcher has defense and this is with ASA bats and.crap balls. First thing they will say to you is you have a glove so use it.. all I.am.saying is it only takes one stupid.person that wants to win at. All costs to hit one back at you that will ruin your whole season or even worse break your skull. I just think the rule.is stupid. Yes there.are holes at the 5-6 and 4-3 but the odds.at hitting up the middle and getting a hit is much higher ,all I am.saying is one mistake there and your.affecting someones life. Think about it the pitcher is twenty feet closer to the batter that the third baseman or short stop which means his reaction time is half that of there's and we have seen those guys tat third and short take.some missles. I won't sit here anymore.and bore you with my reasoning on this.stupid.rule. its like talking about religion or.gun control I.will.never win this argument . But I will close.with this final.thought I.would be good with this.rule if pitchers.had.a screen and if the batter hit the screen it would be a out also I just don't want to see someone get hurt.
Jan. 1, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
225 posts
Again this 15 homer team is brought up! Did they win the Vegas Worlds? I dont think so....didnt even see them in the final 4! Rules r rules, lets just enjoy this great game...Aloha, Fabe
Jan. 2, 2013
Slappy
2 posts
Fabe, congrates on your team winning the Vegas Worlds. Not every team shows up in Vegas, the same way not alot of western teams show up at the TOC in Florida. Bighurt3535 specifically stated a tournament in Florida.
Jan. 2, 2013
southernson
261 posts
There is a significant difference between a AA or AAA shot up the middle, and a Major/Major+ shot up the middle....a significant difference. That Major/Major+ shot can really hurt someone.
Jan. 2, 2013
Bighurt3535
25 posts
There are a bunch of players at t he AAA.level that can hit like major players. Can the whole team hit like majors no but there.are some scattered throughout AAA teams.
Jan. 2, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
i agree with bighurt, the home run rule will end up getting a pitcher hurt.and i dont think that many players hit them out just for their ego.most good hitters swing the same way even if they are going backside or the middle. you are taught not to let up on your swing so sometimes you hit solo homers to right or center it doesnt mean you were trying to feed your ego.if everyone is so concerned about pitchers getting hit then having home run s as outs is not the answer. more people will hit middle after homers are up. i would rather have teams hitting homers as singles than have them hitting singles up the middle almost decapitating our pitcher. thats just my opinion and im sure not everyone will agree
Jan. 2, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Not enough talk is given to how many times in the little tournaments around your areas are the AAA teams playing the Major/Major+ teams because there are not enough teams entered. The answer is most tournaments. SSUSA makes these rules thinking that AAA teams always play against AAA teams and Major teams always play against Major teams and that is just not the case in most tournaments. So the result is the Major and Major+ teams WILL be going up the middle a lot more when they play against the AAA teams if they have to play down to their HR rule.
Jan. 2, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
225 posts
Slappy mahalo for clearing this specific post, yet in other post the same amount of hrs were used to describe a AAA team in Vegas. Again, I think the 70' bases affected the games greater than the hrs. Aloha, Fabe
Jan. 2, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
I think not enough attention is given to the ages of players in the tournaments.My opinion is different age brackets should have different home run rules. Its only common sense that 50s and 55s whether AAA or major are going to hit more homers so their home run rule should be different from the 65s or 70s that dont hit any or very few.It seems the three and out thing applies to all ages and it shouldnt be that way.
Jan. 2, 2013
SS13
19 posts
big cat7 I think you're right on both accounts. I still play with the young guys and I can tell you from experience the middle is where it goes when the homers are up.
Jan. 2, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
I play 60 AAA and don't have a strong feeling either way about the 3 Home Run Rule. Maybe the best compromise would be to institute the 1 up rule. What I do have is a problem with is the statement that with the new rule guys will be blowing up the middle after 3 Home Runs. There is really NO reason to change your swing after the home runs have been hit. Simply switch to an ASA bat and you don't need to change anything else.
For those of you complaining about sandbagging teams that hit a lot of balls over the fence, you need to know that the team that won 60AAA in Reno and 60 AAA in Las Vegas last year didn't even have a single "legitimate" (sorry Jimmy) Home Run hitter. They won the title because they were in the best shape, played the best defense, had the best bat control, and were the team with the best chemistry.
Again, congratulations Enviro-Vac.
Jan. 3, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
But lefty no disrespect but youre talking about 60 AAA not hitting any homers.There is a alot of difference between 50 and 55 AAA and 60 AAA.There are lots of guys playing 50 AND 55 AAA that can still hit it a mile and very hard. I know youre going to say they should be in major and you are probably right but some times there are no major teams in that area so to play you have to play where you can. I play on a 50 major team and also a 55 AAA team ireally like the 50 team but i prefer the 55 because its fun playing with and against guys my own age.And no do not like the home run limit in the AAA, but i have no choice but to play AAA as there are no 55 major teams near my area.
Jan. 3, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
BigCat-I had the same problem and played 50AAA and 55AAA for 6 years before getting a chance a Major Plus last year. AAA was the highest we had in NM. It has been well worth the move up to play this level, though. We also have no tournaments for SSUSA in NM so my travel schedule was similar to what it would have been in AAA. I still would have had to travel to play. The big surprise to me was the teams that came up to me and asked why I hadn't called them to play. I had always felt that it was presumptuous to go up to them, because I thought they would be scouting and let me know if they were interested. I would suggest if you do want to move up, don't be afraid to contact a team and let them know you are interested.
Jan. 3, 2013
Robo2
229 posts
Nobody ever gave me a reason why we just donot have unlimited HRs at all levels. The game would move faster; teams would show the difference quicker and could be moved up in ratings quicker (nobody ever said a team could not be moved up during the season). I have played against teams that were power teams that simply did not move because they were restricted and hidden by the HR rule and did not show the power on paper but the pitcher found out quickly when they started hitting the middle. A lot of talk is made about not changing the game but it seems that this HR rule is not mentioned.
Jan. 3, 2013
southernson
261 posts
Robo2,
I like it, it makes sense, forget the HR rules. AVERAGE RUNS SCORED should be the measurement stick for rating teams and divisions, not HRs.
Jan. 3, 2013
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
well lets do this than....lets have only one div and hit all the hrs ya want,no crying or complaining,bring your team and see what ya got....this way there will be no sandbagging and we'll really see who can play.....
Jan. 3, 2013
Wayne 37
216 posts
Both teams play by the same rules, so I don't see a problem. Nothing you can do about a team having better players.
Jan. 3, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
That would be nice no home run rules either bring it or stay home. Of course that will never happen but it was fun in the old days.I can remember being on A and B teams and playing major teams because the tournaments were open an we actually beat some of those teams but that didnt mean we had to move up.I dont mean any disrespect to anyone playing softball in the senior division but it seems like most of the people having problems with home run rules are over 60. So let them have their rules and divisions under that have one up or walks or even unlimited ganes will not take any longer because you can still only score five runs in an inning and do away with the open inning and just play the last inning the way you play the rest of the game that way no team really explodes and hits ten or fifteen in the last inning
Jan. 3, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
It really does look like there should be a different set of rules for the 40 to 60 age groups and the 60 to 80 age groups.

The reason that the SSUSA brass changed the AAA HR rule, was to get those teams with a ton of power to move the Major level. It doesn't look like this is going to happen any time soon, especially with no incentive for the top Major teams to move to Major+.
Jan. 3, 2013
ChiPrimeMarty
Men's 55
71 posts
Which rule is more advantageous to an AAA team with several power hitters?

a) Unlimited home runs, with walks after the 3rd homer.
b) After homer #3, every fair ball hit over the fence is an out.

If home run walks help power teams win more games and tournaments, isn't that more likely to get power teams moved up to Major?
Jan. 3, 2013
Bighurt3535
25 posts
Let's take a poll who would pitch in AAA after the three homers are gone in a game . Not me lol
Jan. 3, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
Everyone wants an equalizer.
5 runs per inning so that the games don't get out of hand.

Homerun limits so that your team does hit more than my team.
What does it matter if a AAA team hits 15 balls out of the park if only three of them count.

If my team hits X -number of homeruns (not homeruns but, balls over the fence)we should "move up"? The equalizer is the HR limit-out after the limit.We've gained nothing by hitting HR above the limit.15 homeruns with a 3 hr limit. Sounds likes 12 outs to me. Not sure what the advantage is to your team for our(sic) team to move up.
1-1 count "so that the hitter doesn't sit on his pitch" lol!

Every equalizer every change that you can imagine.Yet we still want to use the hottest bats on the planet. Stop looking for equalizers and Work on your game.

The Bigger the Challenge the Bigger the Chance!
Jan. 3, 2013
garyheifner
370 posts
Not a problem for me. Pitch from 56 feet, back up a few steps, get a a GOOD defensive stance and watch the ball off the bat. You can't assume that all the HR hitters are accomplished middle hitters. I think you will see the real power hitters taking 1/2 swings and trying to steer or place the ball. I believe it is good if a batter has to try things they don't normally do.

I posted a while back that in 2 stright games combined last season, the opponents went hard middle "15" times total which was good because we fielded most of them and helped us win the games. Hard middle is nothing new.
Jan. 3, 2013
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
hurt...i have no prol with pitching to anyone with no hrs to hit.....ya got up to 56' like garyh says......and do you think these same hitters won't hit middle even if there are hrs left...yeah right,i pitched last year quite a bit and had more hit at me then out of the park....so that thought is a big false one.....
Jan. 4, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
BigHurt-the rule was 3 Hr's and an out for several years before they changed it last year. The rule is nothing new in AAA for most. There were a few pitchers hit, but it wasn't a bloodbath or anything. And if I remember correctly, the pitcher can go back 10 feet now to make it 60 feet. And they can put on the equipment. I'm not sure anything else works toward safety for the pitcher except a screen-and I will not play SSUSA with screens.
Jan. 4, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Some of you who have posted on this subject are forgetting the reason why this association was formed. It was started to give the maximum amount of Seniors a place to still play softball without having to play in a "kids" league. The association continues to tweak the rules in an attempt to provide an equitable and/or level playing field for as MANY players as possible. That is the reason for the Home Run rules and different levels and ages of play. Those of you who say "let's do away with the age groups, levels and Home Run limits" should put your testosterone in check. Remember, you are now a Senior.LOL You don't need to act like you did in your 20's. Besides, there is a level of play for you. It's called Major Plus. If you don't like the rules in SSUSA go back and play with the kids and their shaved bats.
Jan. 4, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
No disrespect because anyone still playing over 60 is okay in my book but if you look at all the comments the ones saying homers should be outs are all over 60.And maybe they are right for them 60 should have limits but under 60 should have different rules.Some of us 50 and 55s can still hit with the young guys but cant run,throw or field with them so its not much fun,and why should they be penalized because they can still hit. I dont think the 60 year olds would feel the same about hitting middle if they had to face some of the 50 and 55 guys hitting rockets back at them because the home runs were all used up.
Jan. 4, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Big Cat7 - It's like I mentioned in a previous post, when the Home Runs have been used up, simply pull out an ASA bat and keep your same swing. No need to shoot the middle unless that is really what you plan to do.
Jan. 4, 2013
Silk11
Men's 50
41 posts
All I said was Im glad Im not a pitcher! Guys will be pounding the middle after 3. I agree with you Big Hurt, with these balls and bats and the speed the ball comes off them, some one is gonna get hurt. There is a reason pitchers look like catchers, masks, shin guards etc.

Good point big cat7....
Jan. 4, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
Im sorry but what would bringing out an ASA bat do? Is that going to make line drives at the pitchers head any softer when they hit him oh i get it that makes the 32O ft homer a 295 fly out so if i know that i cant hit it out with that bat wouldnt i be more prone to hit middle even more trying for base hits?Im sorry i may be the only person that feels this way but i liked softball alot more in the old days when there werent home run rules and you either played or you stayed home.Sure there were alot more homers hit then but very few balls were hit up the middle and pitchers didnt fear for their lives or have to wear hockey equipment to play.
Jan. 4, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
I have pitched at the 50 Major, 55AAA, and 60AAA levels when the DBO rule was in affect and when it wasn't. The frequency of hitters going up the middle didn't seem to change. You are always going to have guys shooting the middle. That seems to be the nature of the game. You accept that when you make the decision to pitch. I would urge all pitchers to wear masks/helmets, shin guards, and anything else that you deem necessary to protect yourself.
Jan. 4, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
I must be missing something. If you don't like the HR rules in AAA then move to another division or play SPA - AAA Division: Three (3) Home runs allowed + One (1) up Additional home run scored as an Out.

There is a HUGE difference in hitting the middle or accidently hitting up the middle.It is usually a choice.
Jan. 4, 2013
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
A home run rule that would surely remedy the sandbaggers would be make any homerun after the limit a inning ending out! It's been proven in some associations to be the end all to sandbagging. JMO
Jan. 4, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
softball4b - There are many comments on this issue. To whom are you addressing your question?

The points that I am trying to make are -
#1 - The rules regarding Home runs, age brackets, and levels are there to try to try to provide a competitive/fun atmosphere for all Senior players at all skill levels.
#2 - Don't use the DBO rule as an excuse to intentionally hit the middle. Switch to an ASA bat and keep your same swing.
#3 - There will always be players who hit the middle (intentional or not) so all pitchers should consider using the protective equipment that is available.
Jan. 4, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
Leftyodoul - no specific reference to anyones post in particular:

My point is the rules for AAA are 3 HRS and outs, for those players unable or unwilling to live within those rules, switch divisions or associations. When I played 40-45's it was 3 HRs and an out. I loved when I turned 50 so I could free swing. I made sure I played in a division that fit my desires.

My point to individuals indicating that with the HRs gone, you have to hit the middle is somewhat disingenuous. I don't always hit where I want to, but I can pretty much stay out of the middle. Only eception is 2 strikes and the pitcher throws it short and on the outside part of the plate. I never played over the line so that ball is usually going middle. Just not good enough to do much else with it.

So I agree with #1, #2 and #3.
Jan. 4, 2013
southernson
261 posts
JMO I'm weary of hearing about sandbaggers and tying the solution to that as being a low home run rule with outs as the penalty. Does anyone in their right mind think this is really going to work? IT DIDN'T BEFORE and IT WON'T NOW.

People crying about sandbaggers now are the ones who cried about them in the past, and they will keep crying about it in the future.

Until there is a link between the problem and a solution that maybe doesn't solve everything, but improves it.
The problem is that a lot of teams break up and reform to avoid moving up. And no one polices,penalizes, or stops that abuse in those situations. So it continues.....

And good wasted oxygen is spent talking about AAA with 3 HRs and an out as being a solution. It's just &^%$# sad....

Jan. 4, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
How do you sandbag in a game that you can only score five runs an inning? Whats the difference if you score them by homers or singles?Couldnt a team be put together of the best base hitters and never be beat?And if so would you make them move up from AAA to major just because they beat everyone but dont hit homers?And finally ill ask again what good does a ASA bat do ?If you hit it 350 with a senior bat you can still hit it out with the ASA bat and a line drive is still a line drive no matter what bat you use.And its slow pitch softball you dont hit middle on accident you go that way because it is the easiest place to try for a base hit.
Jan. 4, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Answers:
1. By not scoring 5 runs(sandbagging),
2. Long game or time would run out.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes,yes,yes
6. Actully the middle is not the easiest place to hit When you have a pitcher that field the middle, and there are plenty of them.

I just would like to add that there are 6 holes in the infield and the are baseline-3 3-4,1-4,1-5,5-6 and 6-baseline.
You DON'T HAVE TO HIT MIDDLE!
Jan. 4, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Excuse me, I ment foul line-3, 3-4,1-4,1-5,5-6 and 6-foul line. Thinking basketball, Man My lame ass Lakers are losing to much this year.
Jan. 4, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
so youre saying its just as easy to hit between short and third for a hit than to hit middle , sorry you couldnt be more wrong. look at the distance a pitcher is away from the hitter as opposed to a shortstop or third baseman and how much more reaction time they have than a pitcher.and if you dont score five runs an inning how is it sandbagging? when does the actual sandbagging come into play?this could go on and on and noone will ever be totally happy.over 60s want limits young guys want to swing away. why not please both have limits in 6o and over and revise the ones under 60
Jan. 4, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
big cat7 - I believe that if you took a pole of all senior players under the age of 60 and asked them if they would rather play in a single division with no Home Run limits or would rather have it remain as it is, you would get an overwhelming number of players voting for it to stay as it is.
BTW - If you are hitting balls 350 foot you should be playing Major Plus and this whole discussion would be pointless for you.
Jan. 5, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
lefty youre over 60 and want home run rules and over sixty should have them if thats what they want but each age group should have their own homer rules not one rule for all age groups and classes.I really dont understand this mentality of if you dont like it move up or you shouldnt be playing this or that if you can hit it.In some cases there are no major or major plus teams in that persons area or they cant travel to play with those teams because they are so far away and the only team they can play with is AAA in their area.
Jan. 5, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
BigCat-I understand what you are saying having been there for 6 years in senior ball when I played in the 50 and 55AAA divisions. The closest Major or major plus teams were Phoenix (420 miles0 and Denver (450 miles). I could not afford to travel. I am now over 60 but I loved not having to hit down last year for the first time. My teammates got a kick out of my apologies for hitting an early inning solo because with 12 hrs, 1 up and a walk, we didn't have to worry about it. I was where you apparently are. There is not an easy answer.
You are looking at this from a different angle than SSUSA does and it is an interesting look. If I read it right, you think, for example, that 50AAA should get 6 home runs and a walk, 55AAA should get 4 homeruns and a walk, 60AAA and older should get 3 homeruns and a walk. Maybe that deserves a look, but imagine the umpire confusion. That WOULD happen. The problem that exists in softball today (that SSUSA tries very hard to combat) and has for the last umpteen years is that too many teams sandbag down to win (or stay comfortable). I am not sure when it happened, but playing to the best and highest level and playing the best has all but disappeared. C,D, And E divisions are huge and they too often go after the pitcher. This 'play down' mentality is also prevalent in Senior Ball. I don't know how many teams break up instead of moving up to play the next level when they have won enough to merit that move(please don't comment here on the politics of moving teams-it's not my point). Yes, you take your lumps, but I contend a lot of the reason they do not win at the next level is mental. But not all.
Going by runs scored is somewhat misleading, because as you move up, say from AAA to Major or Major Plus, the defenses get better. Considerably better in a lot of cases. I know when our Desperado team 55AAA, which won 3 major tournaments, played a major team, our run production took a major dip. When we saw plays being made against us that we didn't normally see being made at AAA, or especially many fewer errors that kept us from getting an inning going, the old 'pucker' set in and we were done.It is a mistake to think that a AAA team that averages over 20 runs a game will do the same playing Major competition.
So my conclusion (I know, finally) is that hr's are the best way to control sandbagging, along with run differential.
Jan. 5, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
By the way, GI-just like you to be a stand up guy in your earlier post about moving to major and taking your lumps. You wouldn't come out and say you lost several key players that moved to different teams, too. It wasn't the same C,J,&S team that played AAA that you took to major. It's no wonder you had the season you did.
Jan. 5, 2013
boston
307 posts
This is what the 3rd thread on this topic. Sandbagging teams and players and hitting up the middle, when HR's are used up. big cat7: I do agree that rules should be different based on age and level. The 50's AA, AAA, Major and Major plus shouls have different HR rules. The 60's should also be different than 70's. Since it is tough to find Major and Major Plus teams to play on for some people. This is a good way for older players to play down and stay competitive.
Some of us still play with the oung guys for that competitive rush. Seniors is enjoyable because of the lack of BS and trash talking involved.
The bottom line and reality in all this discussion is. Guys are going to play SSUSA no matter what the rules are. It is nice to have these and other discussions but does it really matter.
One question is "What criteria is used to judge a player is a sandbagger".

Happy New Year

"Stay thirsty my friends"
Jan. 5, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
i agree boston and youre right does it really matter? the older guys are going to want rules and limits and younger guys probably will want something different.and i also want to know what makes a sandbagger?ill use myself as an example im 6ft2 260 punds i work out five days a week and hit three times a week.i dont get to play in alot of tournaments because of my work but i do play in five or six a summer.i played on a 50 major team even though im 56 until they broke up and then i played with a 55 aaa team made up of just league players.the last tournament i played in was in springfield , the route 66 tourney anyways my team came in 2nd to a 55 major team and we actually beat one 55 major team on saturday it was 3 homers and a single and sunday it was 3 and an out.for the tourney i was 24 for 25 with 15 homers all counting as homers no singles. my question is was i sandbagging even though there were no teams where i live to play on other than this league team. i love the major thing but there just arent any team in my area
Jan. 5, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Having been there myself, Bigcat-no you are not sandbagging. And, I was not referring to you, personally as a sandbagger. I wasn't sandbagging, either. I never had the opportunity or financial ability to go that far to play higher. That's different from being able to play higher and choosing not to for the reason of winning at the lower level.
Jan. 5, 2013
boston
307 posts
Now I see how you got the name Big Cat. lol It's quite a delemna. In our league of 18 senior teams. We have enough talent to make a major team. But it appears most of the guys prefer AAA. I know some of them are very capable to play major and even major plus. but, as Webbie and you have stated what do you do when the opportunities do not present themselves. My options has been play with the kids, play with my buddies or not play at all.


"Stay thirsty my friends"
Jan. 5, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
no boston i got the nick name because a coupke of years ago i was coming off knee surgery an could only pitch play first or catch.anyways i was catching one night and had been taking a ribbing from guys on the team because i had hit a couple of line shots to the fence and only got a single on them so we were on the field and on an overthrow from out outfield to the infield the ball got by our pitcher i ran down the third baseline to get the ball and as i did i yelled at our shortstop see how i got that im as quick as a cat and he yelled back yes a real big cat and so the name stuck
Jan. 5, 2013
17Black
Men's 50
222 posts
I agree AAA needs to be an out after three HR's. Especially now that many (certainly not all )tourneys are played on 325 fences and still go over the HR limits.

I like Pricer's idea above, of making it an inning ending out.

The only bad thing would be for the one guy on the team who either never (or hardly ever) hits a HR and winds up cranking one with a 30 mile an hour breeze behind his back. (and which would be more apt to happen on the shorter fenced fields.
Jan. 5, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
big cat7 - There is a Major Plus team based in the Ohio/Kansas area (OKI). You should contact them to see if they need another Bopper. I'm sure that they could use someone who is capable of hitting 15 Home Runs in 25 at bats. They may even be willing to subsidize your travel.
Jan. 5, 2013
17Black
Men's 50
222 posts
I'm pretty sure (OKI) is out of the Cincinnati area (Ohio/Kentucky/Indiana) Hence the name
Jan. 5, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
17 black you are right.and i was asked to play with a 55 major team out of kansas lefty, but im not sure that i can travel that far three times a month to play even though i would like to be able to. Oh and lefty just so you know the only out i made the entire tourney was my very last atbat and i hit a homer for an out
Jan. 5, 2013
jsheeran
Men's 50
41 posts
Really.........all you can think about is buzzing the tower if it's an out instead of a walk? Trying to jack homers or buzz the tower? Really? Is this all some on you can do?
Jan. 5, 2013
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
i would say just hit it where its pitched but where ever you go GO Hard
Jan. 6, 2013
neck10
513 posts
why dont after the home runs are gone the first ball a batter hits over the fence that would be a strike if you hit two then your out if you have two strikes on you at the time of the first homerun then your also out ,thats kind of like pour screen rule that was changed this winter if you hit the screen once its a strike second time in same at bat then its an out .
Jan. 10, 2013
B-DUB
Men's 50
29 posts
For those major players playing in the AAA base hitter occasional home run league, after the 3 HR limit let them play ss or 3rd base. And please stay in front of the ball. Oh you can't play in the grass either because our AAA arm strength isn't strong enough to throw runners out at first.
Jan. 10, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
B-DUB-you make the point there, and the intent is to get players to play at the highest level they can. Admittedly an imperfect rule because for a lot of us (me included), the level of play in an area can affect what division you can play. But I haven't heard a better solution anywhere here than limiting Home Runs. And don't give me that about rating all players individually unless you want to volunteer your time and resources to try and compile what would be a massive data base, and then offer to help with the literally hundreds of re-rate requests that would undoubtedly result.
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