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Discussion: How would you feel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted Discussion
Oct. 25, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
299 posts
How would you feel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Two years ago 4 of us joined a new team.
I was asked first to join the team and proceeded to get the 3 other teamates to join because we all wanted to stay together and improve the team.
After the first year 1 moved up to the 65 team and made his intentions well know all year that he would be moving up. This past year we (me and other two players) decided to stay with the current team and made our decision known to the team in June/July. Now I find out by e-mail the other two have left the team and are moving up. No discussion or information that they were going to move on.
I considered all these guys friends and teamates and feel as if I have been betrayed by the two. I know they have the right to go anywhere they want to but feel betrayed because I stuck my neck out to get them on a the team orginally and they didn't even offer me the courtesy of a phone call or e-mail to dicuss, just a mass e-mail to the team.

Comments please

The Hitman
Oct. 25, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
I'd be pissed but I would talk to them directly instead of going this route.

Seems kind of girly :)
Oct. 25, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Seems kind of girly??????

Speaking as the father and husband of 3 "girls" with a combined 24 high school letters, along with 2 of them playing in college, what exactly is "girly"? You mean more athletic than you?

Your first line was very astute. The second, not so much. :(
Oct. 26, 2011
oneofeleven18
Men's 50
56 posts
Hitman, I think it is inconsiderate of them as they could have copied you on the email. However, these guys were buddies before you came into the picture so their bond is stronger. With that said, you guys should recruit some of your time tested friends who are good ball players. There are a couple of them looking for a team in the Capital City and a couple in the Atlanta area that are in your age class. You can probably figure out who they are. This action is not uncommon in today's society. Gary19, I have three daughters also who are athletes. A challedging landscape but rewarding.
Oct. 26, 2011
curt
Men's 50
11 posts
Hitman: You need to talk to them. Preferably in person.

Gary: I believe you ment 'Speaking as a husband and the father of 3 girls.' I also believe Joncon ment girly as in feminine. I don't think it was a disparaging remark concerning a womans athletic ability.
Oct. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
oneofeleven, I completely agree with that.

curt, I just put that in quotation marks since I was also referring to my wife, and it has been a few years since she was a girl. :)

I believe he did not mean it in an athletic context, but it was pretty insulting nonetheless. Just sounded to me like some kind of comment I would hear on the playground from 10-year-olds.
Oct. 26, 2011
tg69
307 posts
You know,its all right for females to be just girly,soft and feminine.They dont all have to be more manly atheletes than the guys.I married one that I am sorta partial to.
Oct. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So every female athlete is manly? Are they all dykes too? :(

What is it like being cromagnon?

By the way, yes it is perfectly fine for girls to be "soft and feminine", though to be honest you can be both those and athletic. But he was clearly using "girly" in a derogatory manner.
Oct. 26, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Doesn't this post belong with Dear Abby and not here???
Oct. 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
#19,who knows with some of these guys...DOH,LOL.......





hitman didn't you pass out any cookies to them...yep it sucks,or the guy you get for a team and he knows its a pay your own way,and he conveniently forgets to pay his share of the fees and the coach looks at you for them......
Oct. 26, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
381 posts
I have come to accept that softball players on average are very selfish and self-centered, me included, and expecting anything else from them is foolish. We've all been throwing our "friends" under the bus and have all been thrown under the bus by our "friends" in softball from the beginning. When and where it is not this way, is evidence of evolution and needs scientific study. Those of you who have evolved beyond the selfishness (and sexist for that matter), teach your teammates about the new world where giving is the standard and taking is unacceptable. Occupy Wallstreet? Hell, let's "Occupy Softball!"

ShaneV
Oct. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
There are certainly right and wrong ways to leave and switch teams, with the right way being preferred.

But no one has a lifetime contract, so leaving should be accepted if done properly.
Oct. 26, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
593 posts
You know, unfortunately (as pointed out by SV), we do play in a team sport that is populated by a lot of me first type "A" people. Talk to just about any one brave enough to try and manage a team and they are amazed/surprised/ticked off/despirited (but never elated) about just how hard it is to get some guys to communicate and or commit to the cause and for the benefit of a team. Especially some of the ones that were so vocal to try and get on a certain team to begin with.

We foster a lot of that as every game or tourney - or sometimes an inning can come under the what have you done for me lately heading.

It's sadly surprising that guys 40-50-60+ have not learned how to stand by their word - or even be accountable to their commitment that they themselves volunteered and were lobbying for. Sometimes just try and keep up with the carpooling arrangements and promises - something as simple as that is too troublesome for some to bother with.

That being said. It's possible they fall into that catagory or for some reason they did not feel comfortable talking to you about it and how your reaction would be. Judging by the tone set forth by your post it might have been what they were trying to avoid feeling a break was better than emotion. It's quite sure this thread has been seen and discussed locally in your area. Possibly their new team told them not to say anything to keep things "smoothe". For a "fun" endeavor there sometimes seems like there is a good amount of subterfuge taking place.

It's really no different than any other avenue of life - just magnified because we are so passionate about it and the community is so small.

Sometimes we just specialize on making the simple things much to complex and in the process wonder why we feel stymied in our enjoyment.

As a group we're not to touchy feely or we wouldn't be able to play this sport so I wouldn't be too surprised - or worried that they didn't check in/run it by you/inform you first.

Enjoy their company when you are in it - then go out and play ball - if you play against them get your revenge on the field............

In the meantime - work on and enjoy your game.
Oct. 26, 2011
oneofeleven18
Men's 50
56 posts
Hitman, where are you? I think the general consensus is you expected too much from these guys.
Oct. 26, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
381 posts
And another thing. I realized recently in dealing with some hard feelings toward and from others, I must not burn bridges! Why? If I am fortunate I will be looking for a 70+, 75+ and 80+ team someday, and the pool of players will certainly be smaller. The one I say I will never play for/with may be the only one left to play for/with.

So work it out, let it go and never say never. Under the right circumstances anything can happen.

ShaneV
Oct. 26, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
Gary, having 3 daughters and presumably a wife, I would assume you have learned that girls act differently than boys on many different levels.

Maybe being around them for so long has increased your estrogen levels which prompted your feminist reply.

My observation is that men handle conflict more directly than women. I never claimed that the manly way was the right way.....but it is :)
Oct. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sure they do, but
(a) those differences have nothing to do with how you used the word "girly"
(b) you clearly used that word in a derogatory manner
(c) "estrogen levels"???? "feminist reply"??? Are you as big a dick as you are coming across in this thread? You just keep burying yourself deeper.

By the way, using the word cromagnon to refer to you was an insult to primitive people.
Oct. 26, 2011
skiray
4 posts
Question...can you renew your player registration on-line...if so how if not why not..thanks sorry if this is the wrong thread but looks like you guys are currently on line thanks
Oct. 26, 2011
skiray
4 posts
wow I think webbie25 is a teammate of mine...I also have played hundreds of games against him...hi there
Oct. 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1964 posts
skiray-who are you? skiray doesn't ring a bell!!! If you do know me you know I am often confused!!! LOL
Oct. 27, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Jim: I would not feel too bad it happens all the time. It is very hard to find guys that want to stay together all the time & the ones that do usually are the most competitive in SSball.

You did nothing wrong: know that you feel rough due to the fact that the 3 that left probably impacted your team & you feel a personal semi-guilt for their action.

I had a guy on my team in 04 that brought a friend to play, leadoff, great OFielder he told me. I started him in LO & OF & the whole tourney he was horrible; not just noobie nervousness, but just did not have it; so after about 3 games, I set him; he leaves & throws his unis in the back of one of the player's truck.

My player apologized to me big time; I told him no problem; I do not think he had seen him play in a long time & his skills had greatly diminished.

Tater50
PS I always say: if you have a team that stays together & have good chemistry; you'll have a great time & the wins will come. I see players that change teams almost every year & I have chnaged teams before; but I like to find a team & stick w/it.
Oct. 27, 2011
neck10
491 posts
gary19 do you ever agree with anything or anyone the rest of us knew what he meant when he said girly.
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
neck, you now speak for the masses?

His use of that word was completely inappropriate to any enlightened person. Again, that was something I might hear on the elementary school playground, but probably not even there.
Oct. 27, 2011
leftyodoul
Men's 60
97 posts
As Seniors, we have spent a lifetime in school and our careers being surrounded by individuals that were/are not of our choice. You accept and deal with everyone because you have to. In Senior Softball, as in others hobbies and forms of recreation, you have a choice of who you play with. I have chosen not to play with individuals who are selfish, devisive and immature. Afterall, softball is a team game. There is no place for a player who puts himself and his personal accomplishments ahead of the team's goals. I don't care how good a player is, if he is putting his personal goals and needs before the team's he is a detriment to the team. If there ever comes a time when I can't find a group of players who care more about the team than themselves that is when I will hang up my glove. I won't compromise my ethics and values just to play a game.
Oct. 27, 2011
ballman555
2 posts
I would agree with Perly except that I was wondering why they would not have waited until the season was completed because I am sure that if they play as many tournaments as stated that this will put that team in a bind for the rest of the year. I also would like to know why a person would not let hitman know in advance especialy if they were good friends and since he had brought them to this team. I understand that finances and health puts each persons at a cross roads but I also know that I would be feeling the same if I had been playing with these guys for several years and they had told people that they were coming back in July to compete for another year. This is has nothing to do with what someone said about being girly it is the fact as someone else said of being a man of your word. If they had some reservations about playing with this team they should have finished the year and then told them that they had decided to go another route.
Oct. 27, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Lefty a perfect example of what you stated would be our putting up with Gary19 all these years, we do it but cant understand why. =)
Oct. 27, 2011
boston
297 posts
Using the word girly is fine. Gary you appear to have taken this personal because you have daughters that were athletes. Many of us have or had daughters that were or are athletes in high school or college. It doesn't change the fact that the genders are inherently difeerent no matter how PC people want to be about the issue. acting "girly" does reflect a feminine quality period. Female athletes are good as female athletes. You definitely have to approach them differently as a coach. I cannot tolerate people trying to make female athletes athletically superior or on an even kel with male athletes. i have heard men say to female athletes "Your pretty good for a girl" and the female get offended. Well, in reality they are good for girls. If females were on an even par with males as athletes we wouldn't have rule modifications for coed sports. So get over it stop acting "girly".
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Hey, hey, I can give you many reasons. :)

Of course, my wife and kids will give you just as many reasons not to. LOL

boston, I would like to think I would have found that comment just as dumb if I had never married. Like I said before, it just reminded me of something I would have heard on the elementary school playground back in our day. I think 9-year-olds nowadays are probably a weeeeeee bit more enlightened.

Of course the genders are different. But "girly" is such a derogatory word, which is most likely exactly how he meant it.

And, of course, typically girl athletes are not nearly as good as male counterparts. But I would think we can both agree there are many female athletes who are better than many men in general. But we digress.

His comment was just not necessary, and along with his comments about my estrogen levels and feminist reply I think we can conclude he is a dick.
Oct. 27, 2011
perly
88 posts
Jim

Are these two guys real friends or softball buddies? There is a big difference.

If they are real freinds you need to suck it up, respect their decision and remain freinds.

If they are softball buddies you shouldn't have expected anything more than a mass email. I'm sure you've been on both sides of the "Jam it to my softball team exercise" in the past. They may feel they did nothing wrong?

The only way to work it out is to confront them face to face. If they are indeed real freinds voice your opinion to them and get on with being freinds.

Real freinds are hard to find.
Oct. 27, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
(a) those differences have nothing to do with how you used the word "girly"

Sure they do. Generally, men don't avoid confrontation like women do. You haven't noticed this in your 50+ years on earth?

-------------------------------------


(b) you clearly used that word in a derogatory manner

Derogatory to the original poster, not to women. Women are stuck with being women just as we are stuck with our sometimes less than desirable traits like your insufferable, opinionated, boorish, pigheadedness.

------------------------------------

(c) "estrogen levels"???? "feminist reply"??? Are you as big a dick as you are coming across in this thread?

Sometimes. What about you?

-------------------------------------

By the way, using the word cromagnon to refer to you was an insult to primitive people.

That was kind of a girly insult^.

And by girly, I mean weak.

Nov. 3, 2011
sam the sham
2 posts
There is no loyalty in softball. You can play for a team all year and they will dump you. One manager every tournament he has different players.
Nov. 3, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Sam there are teams that play to win at any and all costs and are willing to drop and pick up players like candy. Others and I believe the majority, play with pretty much the same roster at each tourney and are happy to be playing and hanging with friends.
I suppose it boils down to what type of team one wants to play on.

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