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Discussion: Safety Questions

Posted Discussion
Oct. 27, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Safety Questions
I see quite a few comments about pitchers wearing masks, double first base & split home plates.

At Dalton this year, I saw an entire girls team that were wearing masks, so I ask a parent if this was a new rule & he indicated that; "No, just all the players are trying to protect their face cause you only have one".

A little poll here:
Do you care if someone wears a masks & shin protection & if you think it is whacky, do you wear a cup & mouthgard if & when you play infield? Or if you played BB as a kid or young acult, did you wear this protection?

Personally: it is their body, if they want to dress up like Darth Vader, I have no problem with it cause I do not pay their bills.

Also, I like dbl bases for the safety of all players & if it came to a collision on 2B, I'd divert to some degree, cause I'd not want to hurt or get hurt. BTW: In 12 years, I have seen very few collisions in senior softball @ any base.

Tater50
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I don't care at all, each person needs to do what they feel comfortable with.

My issue is the change that was made that created the environment where the masks and other things are needed. Fast-pitch and slow-pitch are drastically different games. Therefore, different needs.

And, keep in mind, you only mentioned one team. Perhaps they were just overly cautious. How many other teams are out there like that?
Oct. 27, 2011
perly
88 posts
Tater50

I like the protective equipment. I think you are going to see more and more players wearing it. A lot of the young guys are wearing the protective helments and shin guards, mostly pitchers but also some in-fielders. To me it's called progress. Many sports such as NASCAR and football continue to improve on equipemt to reduce injuries. Why not softball? Many infielders in baseball today wear a mouth piece. Do you think they did in the 50/60's. Probably not.

Some traditionalist won't like this equipment. Some will say this wouldn't be needed if we went to USSSA/ASA bats. The fact the young players use the equipment takes away from that argument. It's a personal preference. If I pitched I'd wear the gear.

Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
perly, that doesn't take away any argument at all. It is apples and oranges.

With equal equipment guys in their 20s and 30s, on average, will hit the ball much harder than guys in their 50s and 60s. For obvious reasons.

So that does nothing to the argument at all.
Oct. 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
tater,perly,i have been wearing a mouth guard for years(played a lot of football in my younger days and it just carried over).i still use one when in the dirt playing.i have no problem with anyone wearing with whatever they want to play in to feel safe,we have one guy on our team that wears a wire mask to play the infield.

ya know some people just don't want improvement in the game/sport.......what can ya say.....
Oct. 27, 2011
tg69
307 posts
If and when the rules say I HAVE to wear a helmet to play softball I'll probably retire from the game but I have no problem with other people wearing it for their own peace of mind.You even see the traditional bull riders wearing helmets these days.
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"improvement" is such a subjective word.

Oct. 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
tg69,why is that,you don't care for safety,do you disregard any/all safety precautions that are set forth,why........just asking......
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
sad pup, how are you reading THAT into what he said? He clearly said he doesn't care what others wear.

Perhaps he just doesn't like to be told what he has to do when his choice hurts no one else but potentially himself. Perhaps he has principles.
Oct. 27, 2011
tg69
307 posts
Mad Dog,no one wants to get hurt playing ball,including myself nor do I want to hurt anyone else.But how far do you go to protect yourself?shin gaurds,chestprotectors,helmets with face shields,cups and maybe steel toed shoes.If a person wants to do any of that it doesnt bother me at all.Just dont make it mandatory.I cant imagine wearing all that stuff in the heat.I like to feel relaxed and loose when playing the game I love to play.Im not telling anyone what to use,thats should be personal preferance.
Oct. 27, 2011
tg69
307 posts
PS I forgot to say that I dont pitch but if I did I would probably wear that gear.
Oct. 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
tg69,all i was asking,but if we continue with the equipment we use.i can't help but see some more mandatory safety equipment for use in senior ball in the future,to me the wavier does nothing for a pitcher,just an attempt by the assoc to get them out the liability on their part of allowing the hottest combo for all assoc's,to me that would be common sense.i do pitch at times,mostly in the kids leagues and tourney's,and have all the pitcher stuff to use,do i use it yet,well no,don't ask why just don't as of yet.
Oct. 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
My opinion is the more we endorse the use of the protective, the more we encourage the manufactures to make even better equipment that produce even more dangerous products. Yes, I am a traditionalist. I just don't see the game like some of you do. I really liked the game the way it was and anytime we want to take a 1/3 of the infield away from the hitter because of the danger involved, just don't seem right! JMO
Oct. 27, 2011
perly
88 posts
Gary19 you say above "With equal equipment guys in their 20s and 30s, on average, will hit the ball much harder than guys in their 50s and 60s. For obvious reasons.

So that does nothing to the argument at all.

Guys in their 20/30s also have quicker reflexes than guys in their 50/60s so that does support wearing the gear. Younger player with better reflexes + USSSA bats vs
older player with slower reflexes + senior bats. Danger to both is probably pretty close.

You should also address maddog as that not saddog. Are you trying to get banned from this board for using "Disparaging comments directed toward any individual?
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
perly, get it right. It is "sad pup". :)

And I will think about that when he stops calling me "dipty".
Oct. 27, 2011
tg69
307 posts
I swing u-trip bats most of the time anyway,their hot enough,so it wouldnt make me mad if they didnt hit the senior bats.But again thats just my opinion.
Oct. 27, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Another angle to the questions:

Did you encourage your athletic children to use safety equipment? Or your grandchildren?
I positively did when my son played BB & my daughter played SB & Basketball in HS & college. One chipped tooth or one errant elbow can cost a lot.

Wonder if the first catcher in BB used any protective equipment?

If the assoc, require these protective actions; it is because the insurance companies are indicating so, to keep the premiums lower.

I look at the face shield, cups, shin guards as a smart move. Only got one face & the cup, well that is self-explanatory.

Gary19: that was one observation, but I did see many girls on TV in the Softball World Series FP (I think 12 & under) wearing them.

Let the individual wear what they will; & yes the bats are hotter, but there are guys that can take you out w/a broom stick.

Tater50
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Tater, there have always been guys who could take you out with a broomstick. Just now there are a lot more of them, with the bats as a major reason why.
Oct. 27, 2011
rtaven
Men's 65
22 posts
i have been looking at rugby helments,maybe next year.i wear shin guards every now and then and then quit wearing them till i get hit and then regreat it.been lucky this year.
but i have bailed out on 1 or 2 that hit rubber.
same thing here on girls fast pitch,all players on field wearing helmets.
if you pitch you have to do what makes you comfortable.
Oct. 27, 2011
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
If you think you're good with the glove in the first place, putting on a mask will make you feel invincible. Try it. You want to tell the batter to go ahead and hit it at you.
Oct. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
salio, not saying you are wrong but what you are saying makes this a very different and not necessarily better game than we all came up playing.
Oct. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
rtaven-the rubber again. I have been lobbying for years to get it removed as it serves NO purpose in slow pitch.
As far as equipment-it is available, but it should be up to the player to decide to use it. Personally, if I get to the point I need protection to play defense--'Houston, we have a major problem'. And it is probably with me.
Oct. 27, 2011
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Not worried about the game we all came up playing. I have to live in today's world. The title of the thread is Safety Questions. If you think protecting your face is not safety, I don't know what to tell you. Any well struck ball can hurt your face, regardless of association you're playing in. Never wore the mask for senior games, but against macho kids going middle on you, no other choice. It only takes one hit to completely change yours and your family's lives.
Oct. 28, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
It's not just the equipment!!! It has something to do with our AGE!!! Reactions are slower and healing is slower. I personally like to play and not have to sit out while I heal from some injury,...Just my two cents....
Oct. 28, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
I guess I should say I can't throw strikes so I won't be pitching anytime soon-probably would wear some then.
Oct. 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
webbie you wouldn't make a good bp partner then...DOH,LOL....

webbie ya should of seen the mounds at rose mofford,they all were raised 4-6" off the ground,nice little hump there for the pitcher to stand on,looked a little dicey for me.made for a real nice runway for the ball to come up on....
Oct. 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
So the only thing that has not slowed down is our bat speed?
Oct. 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
not sure about that pricer,i would say as seniors tho,that is the last thing to go.i have been told i still have good bat speed.so yes we haven't slowed down that much i guess.
Oct. 29, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
Pricer-that would be an interesting test. Last time I got checked I was swinging a 35 oz bat. Now it's 29. I will be surprised if swing speed really is down much.
Oct. 29, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So if swing speed is staying the same, or close, but reflexes, foot speed/range and arm strength are down, why the need for the enhanced bats? What is the doing to the balance of the game?
Oct. 29, 2011
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Yea Webbie25, you don't need those damn enhanced bats. Just because EVERYBODY ELSE is using them. Be like Gary and swing an aluminum bat. Also, don't go down to a 26 or 27 oz. You'll hit the ball too far with the advanced bat speed.
Oct. 30, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
salio, sorry if that wasn't clear. It wasn't directed to Webbie, but to all seniors since I am detecting on here that most guys believe bat speed holds up pretty well across the board for seniors.

No, I don't expect anyone to use anything less than the others. That being said, my questions still hold.
Oct. 30, 2011
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
Besides for playing slow-pitch I also have been coaching a girls high school team the past five years.

We have been blessed to have had (4) very good pitchers, three of whom just graduated in June. Some schools would have loved to have just ONE.

That being said, two of my girls always wore face-masks when pitching, another girl did "sometimes" and the other one chose not too.

Two of them also wore protective chest protectors "sometimes" it is their choice. And here in Ohio, wearing extra equipment is voluntary. Keep in mind, depending what state you play in, the girls are only 40-43 feet away from the batter, and I've seen them all take line drives off their body parts.

The full time pitcher on our slow pitch "league" team wears helmet and heavy duty body armour under his jersey. The pitcher on my tournament team does not, and in our most recent tournament in Lansing in August, took some major hits off his body and broke his thumb. His choice.

I broke my hand catching a line drive pitching when I was 34. It is a danger of the position.

Technology is always going to progress----balls, bats, protective gear.

I LOVE playing softball--------I'll play whatever the rules are. But if my competition is playng with acomposite bat and hitting live balls, you better believe I'm going to use it too.

I remember playing little league when the first aluminum bats came out, and everybody was up in arms. The first aluminum softball bats we all used once upon a time were high tech of the day. One guy I was playing with in 1980 was still using a wood softball bat (and hitting well with it) because he refused to use aluminum saying it would destroy the game.

I've always worn a cup. Don't have too, just want to protect my "boyz". A lot of guys in major league baseball wear the shin and ankle protectors now so they don't get hurt hitting foul balls of themselves-----purists back in the day would scoff at that (or wish they had them decades ago)

SAFETY certainly is an issue, and as the game progresses more things will come up in the future, regardless of what age or gender is playing the game.

When you get down to it, the game of softball is an off-shoot of baseball which allows more people to play the game. And it has morphed over the decades.

I'm just glad to still be playing now. When I was in my 20's several guys told me I would hit my softball prime around age 33-34-35 and I probably did, but never would have thought I'd still be playing in my 50's.

And I'm glad I have the opportunity to be playing this game at this age period.



Oct. 30, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
17Black: great observations & comments.

My thoughts are that you need to protect yourself; most people scoffed when seatbelts were introduced & I had a relative that never would wear one, thought it took away from his masculinity; but now it is the law. Think the law had a lot to do w/insurance companies, but the commercials are depicting that it saves lives, in that it does.

When I use a grass trimmer, the odds of something deflecting into my eyes are rare, but possible. I use safety glasses ALL the time & a glove on my left hand & wear long sleeves, because the line will deflect small particles that zoom like a rocket. Once in a while one hits my glasses & I think, could have damaged my eye.

Just like SBall: a pitcher or IFielder may never field a ball that takes an errant bounce, but there again, the odds are that one day it will.

A SS friend on mine on another team got hit up side the head on an awkward bounce & he is a very good fielder; next round & thereafter...............face mask. It only takes OOOONNNNEEE!!


Tater50
Oct. 30, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
salio2k-not sure how to take that-all I said was it would be interesting to find out about bat speed now swinging a bat 6 ounces lighter than the last time I did. PS I did use my orange crush several times this year in tournament play. The ball still goes out.
Oct. 30, 2011
GI
Men's 60
164 posts
Webbie I am still trying to figure out how you hit my 15 foot illegal pitch in the sun out for home run in left center. As for being safe. I say wear whatever you need to protect yourself. I wear more and more stuff each year it seems. Not cheap but lot cheaper than surgery after being hit. I enjoyed the International games with Japan very much and some of that enjoyment came from using their special mush ball. It was nice to pitch without the extra gear on and feel safe but STILL enjoy the game of softball. GI
Oct. 30, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
Luck, GI-By the way-I like your new helmet-easier to see popups, eh? I've said before, a measured step back on bat/ball liveliness would not hurt the game at all. Not talking about a sock, but maybe the alloy bat/47-525 ball. I remember them trying to scale that combination back before the composites came out. But the thing is, the pitcher has Always been at risk in our game, even with the old bat/ball combinations. The 44/375 still comes off an alloy bat with plenty of speed when hit well. I don't think there really is a way, outside of the way it is handled now, to address the safety rule without 'gearing up' everyone on the field.
Oct. 30, 2011
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Webbie25....Sorry, I was just making a comment about G19's continuation with the "enhanced bats". Just got carried away. I agree with you completely.
Oct. 31, 2011
B.K.
24 posts
why is this an issue. there is safety gear out there. wear it or dont wear it. Whine or dont whine if you get hurt. We know the risks. If your worried about getting hurt, dont play.
Oct. 31, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
This is a game 8 year old girls used to play, and then even they moved on to a higher form of softball.

It was never meant for fielders to look like hockey goalies. Nor did they have run limits, second home plates, and pitcher's boxes.
Oct. 31, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
I wonder how many senior softball players there were 15 years ago. I am sure there are many many more seniors playing now in large part to ssusa............http://seniorsoftball.com/ssusa.php

ssusa states very clearly on their website why the different divisions and why the protective gear.

In the first couple of lines of the ssusa ratings guidelines it states clearly....
Senior Softball-USA team guidelines and procedures
The foundation of the National Senior Softball Rating System is that separating teams by age and skill level will result in safer play and more competitive games.

Sure there may be some things to be tweaked, but hard to argue with success.

Gary19, you are not comparing apples to apples.
Oct. 31, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, maybe not but slow-pitch is slow-pitch. Or at least it used to be until adults started bastardizing the game.

And trust me, as I umped little kids for years, there was a wide range of skill levels there too, but they did not look like goalies. And no one was getting hurt, on the mound, at home, at first, or much of anywhere else.

Oh, they did not have run or time limits but the games somehow mananged to move right along. Just like ours did in the 70s.
Nov. 9, 2011
Tom8CA
Men's 50
1 posts
I pitch and do not use any protective gear. I do use every bit of the extend 6' pitcher box.
Nov. 13, 2011
3rdbase
8 posts
$6000 in front teeth due to baseball, a replaced knee and you think I won't protect them. This is simply personal choice for whomever chooses to play that way. It's a no brainer to me.
Nov. 13, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
3rdbase: great point; when my daughter played Basketball in HS & College; everyone used a mouthguard. When she played SB in HS she used a mouthguard. So did my son when he played BB. I also notice that BB catchers use all sorts of protection even though they may go many games w/o a ball nicking them.

Errant bounces or whatever can result in severe results. I will NEVER say anything to anyone who protects themself, even if they look like Darth Vader.

Tater50
Nov. 14, 2011
3rdbase
8 posts
Tater, the bad thing here is, we don't heal like them kids do. Keep on playing.
Nov. 14, 2011
Swampy
24 posts
Another can to open that will let the worms out is the idea of runners wearing helmets. This weekend in Ft. Myers, runner on first was struck by a hard line drive from left hand power hitter. From the outfield, it looked like he was struck squarely on the head, but only by the shear length of less than an inch, the ball knocked his glasses off, causing an inch slice on his eyelid. The close call once again gave notice how quickly lives can change. I am not a proponent of runners wearing helmets, but I would not fault anyone that may not feel safe or comfortable when running, pitching, or playing the field to use any equipment that would permit them to play the game they enjoy. I know the guy loves the game, after applying a butterfly bandaid, he was back out on defense, but stated he was running to second after his next at bat, no matter where he hit the ball! Be safe!
Nov. 14, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Been there, been hit by left-handed slugger. But even more dangerous is running to first and getting hit on the side of the head by an errant throw from a shortstop or 3rd baseman. Here you can't see it coming and not every 1st baseman is able to protect you. I knew a guy who was nearly killed by getting hit on the temple by such a throw. Although he returned to play again, he always wore a batting helmet and kept it on while running.
Nov. 15, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
We all know the risks inherent in the game. Please leave it a choice whether to wear a helmet or not. You just cannot legislate every risk out of the game.
Nov. 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
You folks are all correct in that it's a choice. But, the issue I have is indicating that it's not anymore of an issue today than it was 20 years ago. That is just BS and most of you know it. Fact: the equipment is far, far more lively than it was years ago. But to indicate for whatever the reasons are, some of you want to play down the issue. I personally will not wear the protective, but if I do decide to change my mind I will come out to the mound in Brian's 36" goalie leg pads & arm & chest. Add my Warick goalie mask to the mix. I might even bring my blocker.
Nov. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
swampy ,like omar i have been there done that,i hate hitting in front of a big lefty.....i have also seen the runner getting hit in the side of the head by SS and 3B's,not a pretty site.

pricer no blocker's allowed,how would ya pitch anyways.....LOL.......


and to get a pitch(no pun)in for the 52 ball to make it safer for us all around.....both of my leagues will be using it next year(one is already using it).....
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Anyone who wants to advocate the use of the hottest bats in the sport by the slowest group of players in the sport, and then professes to give a rat's butt about safety, is the most hypocritical person in the sport.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
anyone who posts 920 times,and 900 are on the same subject is the most hypocritical in the sport.and count me in as one the hypocritical.
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Glad to see you own up to it, and apparently with pride.

Again, I don't care what bats are used, but I also don't advocate the requiring of goalie equipment or running helmets. Or screens. Or PPRs.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
ok mr.know it all,show me one post where i have advovated requiring any type of equipment.and how many times do i have to tell you PPR IS NO LONGER A RULE IT WAS ONLY OUT FOR A SHORT TIME,WAKE UP.
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Where did I say you did advocate equipment? Show me one post.................. LOL

I just said I don't, never mentioned you specifically AT ALL. So why so defensive when you weren't attacked by me?

But "count me in as one the hypocritical." pretty clearly implies that you do both want the special bats and care about safety.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
will you please send me a special bat i would really like one,none of mine say special they say ssusa approved,and yes i do care about safety yours mine and all the senior players who enjoy the game.do i want a bunch of crazy rules like screens or being forced to put on special equipment of course not.so yes i can advocate safety and the bats at the same time without being hypocritical
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
The bats are a large part of what is causing the safety issues. A large part. NO one not under Senior jurisdiction can legally use them, so yea that kind of makes them special.

I just don't see how anyone can really care about safety yet still advocate the use of the hottest bats in softball by the slowest group playing. That is just very contradictory.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
did nasa have the hottest rockets,did they care about safety?
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
a) I do believe some will tell you that NASA did not always care about safety as much as they could have.

b) I do believe, at least in this country, that NASA might have had the only rockets.

c) "hotness" of the rockets was probably not paramount to NASA. I don't think rocket "speed" was their primary concern, as exit speed of the balls off the bats is to guys who insist on the senior bats. I don't think they cared if they got to the moon 22 seconds faster, but seniors sure seem to care if the balls they hit go 6 feet further.
Nov. 15, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
Gary19, Earlier you said "it is hypocritical to advocate use of the hottest bats and then profess to care about safety." That is not a fact, only your opinion.

Your statement that insinuates there are people that don't care about safety may be one of the silliest of the many silly statements you make here.

There are a lot of comments about so many divisions and how to make it better, perhaps even fewer divisions. But the SSUSA states clearly that part of the reason for the divisions is safety.

For the record, I am all for the extra equipment that keeps people safe.
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, I can go with that being opinion. Sure it isn't proven fact.

But just think about the FACT that the hottest legal bats are being used by the slowest group. You don't see many inherent safety issues to that fact? I know I do.

And again, if that is the reason for so many divisions, then we are making rules based heavily on the existence of the bats. I just don't think the needs of insecure old guys to have the hottest bats should be the driving force in the game. But maybe that is just me.

I also have no problem with guys using whatever makes them feel, or actually be, safe. But it is all some degree of a cover to continue to allow the slowest guys to have to defend the hottest bats. Just an absured contradiction.
Nov. 15, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
There you go again. Has nothing at all with insecurity. You are saying that insecure old guys have to have the hottest bat. That is not even an opinion, but a slam on senior players who happen to like the hot bats. I am one of them that like the bats.

The senior game is evolving as more people play it. How many people our age are playing now versus even 10 years ago? Rules have to be adjusted. The same safety rules do not apply as when we were younger.

There is no cover up, I think we all realize we are slower.

Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, you really don't think in some cases (of course not all) it goes beyond "like" to some type of psychological need? A number of guys on here have said they would stop playing if the senior bats were disallowed. That goes beyond just liking to use them.

Sure the safety rules might have to be adjusted, but perhaps so does the equipment that is compounding the situation. There is no question the hot bats contribute to the safety issue, none at all. It is impossible for them not to.

I ask again, you see nothing contradictory that the slowest guys in the sport have to defend the hottest bats? Just nonsense.
Nov. 15, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
To get to the heart of your reasoning, I think the most important question is how many people have been hurt because of senior bats versus how many of kids have been hurt. Of course not numbers but percentage.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
gary,most of your posts are negative,i have no idea why you get on here. in 6 years i have never seen you at any tournament,what is your purpose here other then to drive sad puppy i mean mad dog crazy
Nov. 15, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
RIK56, to answer your question, refer to hombre's October 24th post.
Nov. 15, 2011
titanhd
Men's 50
334 posts
Rik56 Gary has to play to have an opinion? When his opinions are not shared by you-they are considered negative? I happen to know that he plays.And I'm sure that there are some things that you have never done that you have an opinion on or about.Would that make your opinion negative. There are always two sides to any discussion and everyone is allowed their opiniom.And that includes Gary. Everyone won't have the same view about the ball-the bats-safety of the game and or divisions as you or Hombre, but that doesn't make their (his) opinion any less valid than yours or mine.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
hombre nice post,i like the experience of camaraderie, fellowship, and athletic excitement that the rest of us enjoy you hit a homerun with that statement.



ok titanhd its not his opinions i have a problem with its his negativity example insercure old guys,no one will play without senior bats,foolish people and most hypocritical person in the sport.do i need to continue i could post more.its the same old song and dance bs.gary has posted some opinons that i agree with when he sticks to the topic.I cant resist this next statement, LONG LIVE THE HOT BAT AND BALL COMBO.



Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
hombre, did you actually just refer to yourself in the third person? Hilarious!

RIK, ever have any opinions on the President, or any other politician? What offices have you held? Ever dislike a movie or TV show? Which have you acted in, or directed? Ever criticize a pro football player? Which team did you play for? What years?

My guess is I have played in more tournaments than days you have held office, or starred on the stage or screen.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
again you just dont listen it has nothing to do with opinions.
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Funny, titanhd took your post the same way I did.

Not sure what was so negative. We are either old, or borderline old, guys. Not much opinion there. Reading about all the guys more concerned with how hard or far they can hit balls in their already-there or nearing old age using technology rather than wanting to play the complete game reeks of insecurity. Never said "no one" will play without the bats, but there are those who have made that perfectly clear. Whining about what is not provided at tournaments yet continuing to pay to attend is pretty much a definition of foolish.

Are these negative? Matter of opinion I suppose. Are they pretty much true? Uhhhhhhh, yea.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
old ya think, its the insecure crank before the old,who say its not a complete game you, what a joke i would think most senior players disagree.now we are foolish,well you know what maybe its ok for old guys to whine some.


as for titanhd he must be an ohio state fan so he is excused.
Nov. 15, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
opps sorry insercure crack
Nov. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
When you don't have to get 3 outs to go bat again, clearly defense is taking a back seat.

When you can have a "courtesy" runner on a whim, clearly base-running is taking a back seat.

How else can I look at those?
Nov. 15, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
i've pitched for 40 years. been carried off the field twice,once loaded into an ambulance.been hit plenty other times.i'm 58 and into my 2nd senior season.i have a face mask,catcher leg guards, and of coarse a cup. i'm ordering a chest protector. i've had many balls hit up the middle and very close, that had so much VELOCITY,i did not have time to move my glove one inch!! a shot like that can and has killed several pitchers in ssusa, and other organizations. just google it and see for yourself. still,i have other body parts that are not protected.recently in so. calif., where i play alot,a pitcher was hit in the arm.a metal plate and 8 screws put him back together. i think he's done playing. it only takes one!! i know every pitch i throw, could be my last.i love this game too much to quit. both of my hips are titanium,2 lower back surgeries,both shoulders done, and 2 on my hand.i don't move nearly as quick side to side as i once did, but am considered a very acurate pitcher. when i get a hard shot back at me,IF i have the time,i'm stepping to the side and gloving it. i have 2 senior bats,but would gladly quit useing them if everyone else would. the bats have changed this game alot.it's much more dangerous and hurts the defensive part of the game.when pitchers feel the need to pack on this armour, and sign a waiver if they don't wear a mask,doesn't that show how much the bats have changed this game?
Nov. 16, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
pitcher55, good post. I've been pitching for more than 50 years and am a good enough defensive pitcher that I don't even wear a cup. Sure, I've been hit a lot, many by bad hops off dirt, even broke fingers on my glove hand, but even through the age of the double walls I could protect myself, even though I started learning to back up after releasing the ball.

Then came the composites! And now I have joined the "armor up" club. I always thought that as I aged, so would the batters and as my reflexes slowed, so would the power of their swings. But the composite changes all that. No need to refer to the literally hundreds, maybe thousands of non-power hitters who can now reach the fence or clear it with their composite bat—I'm one myself, from pipsqueak singles hitter to home run hitter with my Miken II.

Obviously the game has radically changed in just the last decade. The ball comes much faster. Pitchers and infielders are at more risk. Defense has taken a back seat. Base running is less important. Guys are leaving senior softball because it is not the balanced game they played and enjoyed for decades. (For that matter, younger guys are dropping out too because they are disgusted by the emphasis on offense and the bat cheating that makes some of it possible.) It's the bat versus our declining reflexes. Time to dump the bat and return to the double wall or else accept the dumbed down ball as the option for a more popular, balanced game.
Nov. 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
pitcher and Omar, glad to see you guys get it. =)

Both very well stated.
Nov. 16, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
pitcher55, I have done several searches for killed by softball and can find a few, but did not find any that where it has killed several pitchers in ssusa? The injury stats by bat used would be interesting to see. Do you have a link you can post? Thanks
Nov. 16, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
cal50,its not so much just ssusa,as it is all the assoc's.just in the past couple of years a 55 yr old in va (playing with ASA bats and balls),an usssa field ump(they have to stand between 2b and the pitcher)and these are just a couple i know of that have died,along with my league that has had 5 players require major surgery for their injuries(2010) and we use ASA ball with ASA and USSSA bats.i have said this b/c all these combo's are less lethal then the one we use now for senior ball. my leagues went to the 52-275/300 ball,and guess what,no major injuries......and we still are hitting them out and having fun playing also.....
Nov. 16, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
There was a Timothy Sommers killed in a softball collision in Ohio-Gary-any relation???
Nov. 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
No Mark, no relation at all.

Was this recent? Do you recall what part of Ohio?
Nov. 16, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
Thanks mad dog, I am trying to validate pitcher55's claim that several pitchers have been killed while pitching ssusa. There may be links as he says, but I have done a google search as he suggested and cannot find what he claims.

I don't think there is any doubt that the potential for injury is greater with the hot bats and hot balls. My guess is that if a study could be done that compares the Senior game with the senior bats to the kids game that there would be a lower percentage of batted ball related injuries in senior than kids. The potential would be greater, but I believe the maturity level of not hitting at the pitcher would be a big factor in making senior ball safer.

The other wild card that may throw this off is the number of illegal bats the kids use, which makes those bats as hot if not hotter than the senior bats.
Nov. 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Seems to me that many on here tend to naively think altered bats don't exist in Senior ball. Why is that? If kids alter to get an edge, why not Seniors?

My altererd U2 would be hotter than your stock U2. So why couldn't guys so inclined want that edge? Not saying they should, neither should the kids, but I don't see why it can't or isn't happening.
Nov. 16, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1980 posts
Copyright on the story was 2011 and it was Elyria, OH. I just googled 'killed by softball' and it was there. There are a few stories but not a huge number and I don't see any right off in SSUSA.
One was hit under the temple and killed when his carotid artery severed. I daresay getting hit right there would be a fatal blow off of a wood bad if hit solidly.
Most others were killed in an accident or the like. Not playing softball.
It seems every time there is a sensational claim like this, I cannot find corroborating evidence. It was the same back in 82-83 when the ultrahot balls came out. When I called ASA and USSSA directly, as I was managing a sporting goods store, all they could tell me was one person was hit in the chest and blood filled the chest cavity and killed him, but it was NOT one of the 'hot balls'.

Gary-are YOU admitting you HAVE an altered U2 in your last sentence???????????
Nov. 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Thanks Mark.

I am sure that could be a fatal blow even off of wood, but the difference is the ball would have been travelling significantly slower and consequently would have had a much higher chance of being fielded before it got to his head to cause the damage.

Nooooo....... LOL. That was said generically, and hypothetically.
Nov. 16, 2011
Donny C
54 posts
I would think that most injuries that occure in sofball are a result of running into the fence, another fielder, or injuries suffered from sliding causing broken ankels etc. Injuries from a batted ball have always happened mainly to pitchers, 3rd or 1st base because of the shorter distance. I recall getting hit playing third in fastpitch (softball) waiting for a bunt that did not happen. That was with wooden bats, also saw players getting hit by a ball while pitching or playing first. I have always used the better equipment heck even the best wooden bat I could find. I never have asked for the less effective bat in a store or the worse glove. I get the best I can afford and always have done that. The Ultra II was made to use and for less than $200 is much better than ASA bats at $400. Using the Ultra is not a difficult descision for me, a better bat for 1/2 the price. I pitch and play third and do not wear protective gear; I have tried it but I feel it slows me down and I am not that quick to begin with, and a mask impedes my vision. I have no problem with those that wear them. We all have a choice in what we do use it. Donny C.
Nov. 16, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
The Miken might be 200.00 bucks, but could last a year or 2 days and if it breaks you get to keep both pieces. Where the 400.00 bat comes with a warranty.
Nov. 16, 2011
titanhd
Men's 50
334 posts
RIK56- Hate to admit it but,I'm a Notre Dame fan. Born and raised in South Bend.Graduated at I.U.
Nov. 16, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
DONNYC,DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR BATS FROM,BUT PAYING $400 FOR A BAT IS WAY OUT THERE.YOU CAN GET TONS OF GREAT BATS FOR $200 AND GET WARRANTY'S(ASA,USSSA TYPES).
Nov. 16, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
TATTOOBALL, on jan.4,2010,you posted ssusa reports 9 pitchers killed since 2002. i started playing senior ball feb.,2011.
the next month, i got into a thread here, and reported the same thing,as i googled the subject. i cannot find it. could you help?
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