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Discussion: Miken Ultra II balanced and end load.

Posted Discussion
June 11, 2012
Gary33
143 posts
Miken Ultra II balanced and end load.
Several of my players have purchased Miken Ultra II's both balanced and end load recently and they all say the bats that they bought are dead. The ball has no carry. Anyone else esperiencing this problem?
June 11, 2012
Paco13
374 posts
Actually Yes. My buddy and I were having BP this last weekend and we used his NEW UII 29 OZ and it was dead. I just called him and he told me that he called Miken and Miken told him to return it that there is an issue with them.

REMEMBER " IF NOBODY ELSE LOVES YOU, JESUS TE AMA".
June 11, 2012
Gary33
143 posts
Thanks Paco!
June 11, 2012
hemi racer
Men's 65
88 posts
Two of our guys purchased Ultra's latley and they seem to perform as always. Still don't last long, but perform good. Does anyone know how to check batch numbers?
June 12, 2012
Kowboy
10 posts
Bought a new ultra ii max-load 2 weeks ago - after hitting the bat last week and comparing it to a Bass Crippler and Worth 454 Senior I was vey disappointed in the performance of the Ultra. I called Miken today and they said that the New Ultra's need 200 - 300 swings before opening up???????? That tells me they are not as thin as before or its a different material than the older Ultra's.

What have you guys heard?

Kowboy
June 12, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
I just bought a maxload and haven't received it yet. I spoke to a manager at Miken and she assured me that no change has been made to the bat. She says you can tell the most recent ones because of a flag on it (American model) but she said no change in anything material. She stated that if a bat isn't performing to call them and although there is no warranty if they deem it defective they may replace it. She was very interested in this thread and I emailed it to her
late today. I will update if anything significant
develops.
June 13, 2012
Kowboy
10 posts
HJ - my bat is the red maxload 27oz - I agree w Gary who started this thread at the top, the bat seems dead to me and I swing senior and non senior bats. My 120BPF bats hit better than the new Miken. Like I stated yesterday Miken says to put some swings on the bat but the problem with that is the bat could break by the time I put 200/300 swings on it.

Kowboy
June 13, 2012
neck10
504 posts
miken ultra II ASA stamps is the answer
June 13, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
Kowboy, just got my bat, it is the older model with the 1.20 stamp. Is yours the new one with the American Flag on it and the 1.21 designation?
June 13, 2012
DCPete
238 posts
Miken's website says the new USA (American Flag) model has more flex in the handle than the original U2. If you use this model in cooler weather, the added flex does seem to help it outperform the U2 original.
Haven't used it enough to know if the durability is better or worse.
June 13, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
The manager at Miken I called called me back and reports she could find no one there who gave any advice that it takes 200-300 hits to break it in.
She said after 5 or so swings you should know if it is ok. She said if the bat immediately appears
defective to call Miken and they will probably give authorization for you to return the bat to them. She said they usually replace it if it is in fact defective. She cautioned against using ultras in batting cages because some batting cage balls will ruin the bat.
June 13, 2012
Kowboy
10 posts
My bat has the 121 stamp - its the Ultra II Velocit-E Maxload.

HJ who did you talk to at Miken? do you have a name?

Is your bat balanced or end-loaded is it black or red?
June 13, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
403 posts
Is the UII Velocit-E ASA approved?
Or, is it the same as a Senior Ultra II?
June 13, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
Kowboy, my bat is red which is end loaded. If yours has the 1.21 stamp it is a newer or newest model. Mine is 1.20. Her name is Deborah.
June 14, 2012
Kowboy
10 posts
HJ - Mine has the 121 stamp.
June 15, 2012
Kowboy
10 posts
I talked to someone different at Miken yesterday - got a whole different story this time. Miken says it should not take 200 swings to break in the Ultra. Im working w/ Miken to resolve my issue.
June 16, 2012
battorque
8 posts
I purchased ( a month ago) a miken ultra 2 end load the bat has a red barrel transitions to a black handle real fancy looking,like said above "my" bat is "dead" in distance also ,I figured it was me and my loss in bat speed until a guy on a former team i played in asked to try it out in bp.during our work out session the furthest distance the ball flew for each of us was 280 feet .To elemanate the possibility of dead yellow balls being the problem .I reached in my bat bag and pulled out a 8 year old red tps warrior aluminium bat.Same balls flew 280 to 290 feet.it has a 1.21bpf stamp on it.
June 16, 2012
ricky33
37 posts
i bought a 26 oz. miken ultra 2 balanced bat 2 mths ago. It was dead with no distance or carry. I returned it, they sent me another one. The one i have now is just as bad as the first one. I was hitting balls around 290 ft. on average on the fly. With these 2 ultras, i can only hit the ball around 260 ft. on the fly. i am very dissapointed and dont know what to do now. I think they are making the bats differently somehow. Can someone recommend a very good senior bat that comes hot out of the wrapper. I use 26 oz. balanced bats.. thanks
June 16, 2012
battorque
8 posts
next problem i have seen with the bat is the miken u2's they dont seem to last .there are a ton of them for sale on ebay either cracked or broken,life is short and performance is bad.I would like to try a 510 launch or an early black u2 next.
June 17, 2012
cyborg45
83 posts
New to the seniors this year so I can't comment on the past. My understanding, from another player on our team, is that Miken has changed the makeup of the bat due to the large amount of complaints of breakage. I bought one, a red end load, this winter. I purchased another back up about 2 months ago.The first one has about 400 hits on it and is pretty hot. The second one has about 60 hits and has not opened up yet. I use a mallet on all bats to break them in evenly in the beginning.I have an old original U1 for comparison, and the new bats are not close. I have good power and the bats are holding up well at this point. My take is that these bats are not hot out of the wrapper as they supposedly were. They take a fair amount of break in time.


June 17, 2012
battorque
8 posts
with my machine shop back ground maybe is it time to construct a motorized rolling machine along with a barrel deflection gauge to test its results .
June 17, 2012
battorque
8 posts
i have seen many different types rollers ,imo i don't believe results can be obtained with a few turns of a handle ;alone the this idea is the fact to much rolling can effect bat life .
June 18, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
Rickey33,
Your best choice right now in a 26 balanced is the Reebok MeLee. Get with me and I'll get one to you right away. Tricoach18@att.net 561-718-7504
June 18, 2012
Rusty47
6 posts
Have just purchased the Miken Ultra II. Does anyone have any advice/pointers as to how to increase the batís durability? For example:
1. Does it need to be turned or not for the first 100 swings or so or does it matter? I get different stories as to whether or not there is a break-in period.
2. Is there a minimum temperature at which you should not use the bat?
3. Other?
Thank you.
June 18, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
When I called Miken they said just play with it.
That said others recommend a protocol which is on
this site. Basically 75 swings using .44 375 balls. First 25, at 1/2 speed, next 25 at 3/4 speed and next 22 at full power. After each swing you should rotate bat a bit. Generally these bats
shouldn't be used under 60 degrees (some say 65).
Try not to use heavy practice balls (water logged) and don't use bat when balls are wet. There is no warranty but sometimes Miken sends a replacement if they determine bat was defective.
June 18, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
HJ, couldn't have said it better myself! AT
June 18, 2012
battorque
8 posts
I have a hard time believing in bats made by shoe manufacturer ,such as "nike "and "reebok"
June 19, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
Mr. Torque,
Reebok is a huge company that doesn't make just shoes. Ever heard of a small company that's number 1 in golf called Taylor Made? Ever hear of Adidas? 2 small brands that Reebok owns. You would be surprised at some other things they do as well. You will also be surprised as I was the first time I swung their bat.... There is a good reason that Reebok is the number 1 selling Senior bat right now. I'm happy to send you one and I think you will be a believer too! Best of luck, tricoach18@att.net
June 19, 2012
Rusty47
6 posts
HJ...thanks for the excellent input. This will be my last Ultra 2 if it breaks too soon. Am looking at the Combat Centerrian as an alternative.
June 19, 2012
neck10
504 posts
tri 18 you ever heard of a small company named nike well they dont have a good bat either
June 19, 2012
bbullet
15 posts
Just another FYI -- Since Miken doesn't seem to be acknowledging this I want others to know this doesn't seem to be a fluke.

I recently bought a red Miken max end-load and it is not only dead but sounds terrible when you hit it. I am returning it to Miken - paying the postage. If it's true what some of the people are saying - that the bat has changed - then I guess returning the bat and getting the same one is a waste of time.
June 19, 2012
southernson
261 posts
Battorque,
The Melee is the hottest bat out of the wrapper I have ever seen...including Combat, Miken, Worth, etc...

I have no horse in this race except to win ball games....and that's all we use....
June 19, 2012
SLOBALL1
Men's 50
173 posts

Our team bought two the the Red Miken endloads and they both hit like a wooden bat.I don't swing Senior bats but,did swing these two just to verify what the rest of the guys were saying.Even after sevral hundred swings bats are still DUDS.

June 19, 2012
Rusty47
6 posts
Southernson...is that the 2012 Reebok Melee Legend Max Senior or 2012 Reebok Melee Legend Balanced Senior? I've also heard some good things about the Easton Synergy SCX2. So I took a few swings with the SCX2 at BP the other day. Nice light feel...pretty awesome.
June 19, 2012
battorque
8 posts
I want to win games too ,I hope players in the market for a new bat will read this thread,imo all the new mikens are duds and not worth buying.if Reebok and combat have better peforming bats the buyers should look to them.Reciently I purchased a cracked red ultra just for the purpose of seeing inside ,after cutting off the end cap what was seen is the interior walls are thinner but more dense than freaks nrgs and 484's from the past,I think miken changed the desighn requiring less materials to make a bat ,the terminal performance is no distance short life and with no warranty replacement.
June 19, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
TRI, what is your source for the facts given that Reebok is the #1 selling Senior Bat at this time?
Every dugout I look in has the UII as about 80% of all bats.
June 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Bomber, I think we both know the answer to your very valid question.
June 19, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
Neck,Bomber,Gary...
A few things to clear up several issues.
I have worked in various capacities in research, design, and testing for several major companies over the past 20 years or so. The projects weren't just bats but included materials composition, balls, shoes, gloves, batting gloves, etc...currently I do not work directly for any of these companies we are speaking of so my observations are made based on non biased facts. I spend hundreds of hours and thousands of my own dollars each year to test equipment to see what actually is happening in the lab and most importantly, on the field. I receive no compensation whatsoever from Reebok, Miken, Worth, or Combat as I simply sell their product lines. I truly believe in giving honest facts to any ballplayer who asks so they can make the best decision for themselves. Anyone can sell you a bat...I try and go above and beyond. So....sorry to ramble just wanted you to understand my response.
1. Neck...I have heard of Nike and they actually did produce a good bat when they wanted to. (I worked briefly on that project years ago) ask the Mighty Mike Macenko (named with great respect!) he was there with Nike as well. Softball is a drop in the corporate bucket to Nike...the big corporate guys decided the risk wasn't worth the reward and they got out of softball mostly. Contrary to popular opinion, the margins in softball are not great.
2. Bomber, I think you are not considering that I said Nationwide when I mentioned Reebok was outselling the other brands. I sell them all and I am not basing it on what I sell but factual industry information. Reebok is doing very well for a "shoe company" lol if you see what's going on all around the country you will understand my comment.
3.Gary, if you have factual information that is different feel free to post it. I am not the "authority" I just believe in telling the truth with honest facts.I am happy to learn from anyone.

So, sorry for the long post, just wanted everyone to understand the facts. Keep training, keep hitting, and feel free to contact me. Tricoach18@att.net
3.
June 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You made the initial, unsubstantiated claim, and now I have to dispute it????????

Bomber did ask a very valid question. What is your source? What are the numbers? Very reasonable to ask you that.
June 19, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
Tri 18 for what it's worth, I believe what you are saying only because I have two in my Bag and am very pleased so far this year... each one has 150 swings on it and still going.. FYI!
I had a talk with one of my fellow players that has hit them all and he rates the Reebok at the top of this list.. I want everyone else in SS to swing ASA bats against me.. don't swing the Reeboks! :-)
June 19, 2012
hemi racer
Men's 65
88 posts
Don't know what the current sales numbers are, BUT I do know as the Ul's brake our guys are going to the Reebok by a large margin. Including myself and I am very pleased as to the performance.
June 19, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
Gary,
You chose to dispute facts. That's entirely up to you. I'm not the debating on the Internet type when facts are involved nor do I post unsubstantiated information. I have 25 years of reputation and proof of that in the sports industry. I invite you to do your homework, join the industry, pay your dues and you too will be privy to industry related facts. Best Regards, Alan
June 19, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
If I were buying an UltraII now, I would avoid those labelled 1.21 and look for a 1.20. The 1.21
are tested differently and I guess that Miken changed the Ultra to meet the new standard which uses bats "broken in" through a simulated process.
The "new" Mikens may ultimately become "hot" and may be more durable, but at this time we are getting reports they are dead. Hopefully, purchasers of the new ultras (1.21) will report back periodically as to how they are doing.

One last thing, when Tri18 says he is using factual industry info, you can't take a cheap shot and just say no it isn't true. You must refute it by facts or keep quiet. Of course you see more Ultras in the dugouts, they have most likely been the best selling senior bat for years
and many old cockers w/o fast batspeed can keep them for years. A fact is a fact until it is disproved, not because of opinion. I learned that in 2nd or 3rd grade.
June 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You make a claim, you refuse to support it, and it is up to me to refute it? What world do you live in?

Bomber asked a very valid question you still refuse to answer. Interesting...............
June 19, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Gary-you obviously have forgotten how to use these bats through lack of playing. Let these guys debate their bats and let the thread go for once without your inane interjections.
June 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Wow, you really aren't as bright as I once gave you credit for.

Bomber legitimately questioned the proof of his claim, which he has yet to provide. All I did was agree with Bomber. Was Bomber "inane" too?
June 19, 2012
BJ_30yearCG
19 posts
Purchase your Senior Softball Bat @ TEAM SPORTS -- I received my bat of choice in one day for the ISSA tournament this weekend in Roanoke / Salem VA at a very reasonable price. Team Sports service was "Top Shelf" and I will be hitting my new Reebok Melee Legend (end load) tomorrow comparing its "pop" to my Miken Ultra Max Load that is prime for hitting bombs 350 plus, (not bragging, honest statement). Thank you Team Sports for outstanding service, good luck Mr. Alan T in all your endeavors on and off the field. V/r BJ
June 19, 2012
battorque
8 posts
I am not against buying a "reebok " bat .what I would like in a bat is out of the wrapper ready ,I am to old to waiting for a "magical" break in period to take place and when it happens my next worry is when the bat's barrel will crack.

at one time I made a machine to test bat barrel performance "several" things i learned was when the day came the bats performance increased it wasn't much longer till it started to crack .

Before the test machine got scraped. I had the chance to test a bat called a 510 ,to my surprise it tested the highest of any bat I ever tested high .just some fyi.

My three question are:
1)how long the life of the "melee"?(amount of hits until it breaks)
2)is there any type of warranty coverage ?
3)how long, or does it have a break in ?
June 20, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2689 posts
battorque, I was asked to test the 510 before it was released to the public. It was hot almost immediately but it only lasted about 75 swings. I believe the less break in period the shorter life span.
As for the Melee Legend (not the Melee), the ones that I had lasted from 250 (my first) to about 500 swings. So I would think you should hope for 400 swings. Of course it all depends on your swing and if you hit the ball "squarely".
All my bats were endloaded. They were hot after 35-75 swings.
Reebok indicated if they break "soon" it "might" be replaced. The quotation marks are mine, not Reebok's.
I hope this helps!
June 20, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
Bat torque,
The Reebok will definitely give you the quickest response once you take the wrapper off. Our testing showed excellent immediate performance and outstanding gains in anywhere from 25-75 swings. On the durability side...the 2012 bats are generally lasting anywhere from 400-600 swings. We have had reports of those lasting longer but this is the average on multiple bats that I tested.Bruce was accurate in his comments...in the past year I have had only one early failure which was returned to Reebok for replacement. The bat isn't indestructible but it is an excellent choice for performance and durability. Get with me if you need one or have questions. Tricoach18@att.net
June 20, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
Bat torque, it is impossible for anyone to predict accurately how long any 1 bat will last.
Earlier threads pointed out for example that if you always hit the ball square on, it will fail sooner and if you generally hit the ball lower than dead center (putting backspin on the ball so it actually sails longer) the bat will last longer.
If you batspeed is minimal the bat will last longer and if you generate very fast batspeed it will fail sooner. And of course, there are individual differences in the "same" bats which is why sometimes you can get a replacement.
That is why I think it pays to listen to what you hear here and generalize. The Reeboks appear to be the rising stars, but the new Ultras may be fine after a longer break in. Who knows?
Finally, Bomber#7 asked a relevant question, asked it respectfully, and he got a factual answer to his question. If you can factually dispute the answer given, then do so, if not, you
have nothing to say on the subject.
June 20, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Some interesting remarks in this thread.
From what I noticed in Reno I'd say the 3 bats primarily used there for the most part (no specific order) were the U-2, Reebok and the Combat.
I used the 1st and last mentioned only & broke them both.
June 20, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
HJ-you make a great point on hitting it square-on. Those are the hits I cringe on even though they result in a sharp line drive. Most of the time, I have broken another one. Good point.
June 20, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
My experience with the 3 senior bats is I broke all three on days the wind was blowing in, causing me to try and line the ball out. I broke both the rebook and combat on two at bats. As long as I put back spin on the ball I rarely broke my bats, including the ultra, except on cold days or bad balls. Back spinning the ball is much less likely to break the bats compared to hitting square on.
June 20, 2012
battorque
8 posts
If a bat would give 200 to 300 hits of life I would be happy ,Since I only play once a week(placed 9 th or 10th in the hitting line up)this averaging 3 to 4 times at bat this simple math would give me 50 to 70 games of use .
A player on another team wants to buy my red u2 when the deal happens the money collected is going towards a" ....."
As a user all I want is 10 more feet of distance over my aged "585"
June 21, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
TRI, not questioning your qualifications or you experience factor, just looking for your source of your sales numbers. Also, you said to look "Nationwide", I've checked on the internet in every way I could, haven't found any sales figues yet. Still seeking your source that would prompt you to post that Reebok is the current United States sales leader. Are you basing that statement on your personal bat sales?
June 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Bomber, good luck with that one. He made a claim, he cannot/will not support it, and somehow it is our fault.

No one ever said he might not be correct, just looking for some substantiation.
June 21, 2012
Tri18
645 posts
Hey guys...if you read my post it says it's not based on just my sales. Being a part of the industry allows information to come your way. I don't "fault" or blame anyone and not quite sure How we got to this on this thread. I was just trying to help out with some information to those that are sincerely interested. As I stated... I am not " the authority" just someone who has been around awhile and try's to take care of his clients. I really don't like getting into message board debates as I feel a majority of the time it's counter productive and things tend to get lost or misunderstood. I am going to politely bow out and invite anyone who has relevant and factual information to post it now. Best of luck to each of you in your endeavors. A
June 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Problem is you gave no information (e.g. data). Instead you just made an assertion with no empirical proof.

"I am going to politely bow out and invite anyone who has relevant and factual information to post it now" Why, because you don't appear to have any since you won't present it?
June 21, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
I have two Reeboks in my bag Gary... this is proof enough... Tri is probably 99 percent right on his assertions FYI

you should stay out of threads that you have no expertise... that means everything to do with Senior Softball! ;-)
June 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
swing, be might be right. But he made a very definite assertion, and should be able to respond to Bomber's simple request with something more than anecdotes.

June 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"There is a good reason that Reebok is the number 1 selling Senior bat right now"

"TRI, what is your source for the facts given that Reebok is the #1 selling Senior Bat at this time?"

A more than reasonalbe question by Bomber.
June 21, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
Well in my opinion Gary, if Reebok isn't number one it should be or be close to number one.. I will buy Reeboks until they change the constuction of them like they did to the yellow MM to the new Blue MM combats... Yellow combat were far superior and built diffenently.. Still don't get why they did that.. it was probably to get more bat sales with the Blues breaking in third of the time the Yellow MM did! IMO
June 21, 2012
BJ_30yearCG
19 posts
Gentlemen, very interesting discussion (thanks). We have played this game for a significant amount of time and we know that sometimes you have a bat that is just hotter than like models and then you factor in the durability of said bat, (does not last as long). With that being said I hit the Reebok I just purchased this week, approximately 30 swings with another senior player. The ball immediately exploded off this bat, after approximately 20 swings, I hit one in the 340ft plus range, (field is 320/325). It was hot, humid and I hit an old ASA "Shark" (bp ball). I am looking forward to swinging the bat this weekend in Salem / Roanoke VA. (more to follow) Take care, stay safe to all particularly those traveling to tournments this weekend. V/r
BJ
June 21, 2012
southernson
261 posts
Rusty47, Took me a while to get back...sorry...

Our gap and base hitters use the balanced, our HR hitters use the 28oz End Load....a couple the 27oz End Load....

Don't get me wrong, as backups there may be other bats in our bag, and all Senior bats may crack at some point, we've just had good experiences with the Melee.

We've had Combats (don't like the new one), we've had the Mikens (won't ever swing a red or grey one, they deaden too quickly)everyone has their favorites, there is no right answer, there is only the answer that works for you IMO...

June 21, 2012
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
I just got a red ultra 2 maxload with the 1.21 stamp and have had no problems with it.It seems to hit as good as any of the other red ultras ive had in the past.also have a new reebok senior melee and my first swing out of the wrapper was a home run.My opinion on the two bats and its just my opinion is that they are pretty equal but it seems that the u-2 has a bigger sweet spot.Has anyone hit the new demarini i heard that it was hot.
June 21, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
It is disgusting that one individual can so ruin an ongoing discussion that an industry insider decides that he will not participate further because he deems it unproductive. The facts are that an industry insider says the following:

I am not basing it on what I sell but factual industry information.

This is a fact! If he doesn't have such info then he is a liar. But don't attack the assertion w/o having facts to refute it. The fact is no one has one iota of proof it is false and to imply that it is is just wrong.
Anyone in sales knows that you constantly see industry figures about who is selling what and that that information is for internal use only. For a salesperson to disclose more puts him in the danger of losing his franchises. It was brave of Tri to disclose what he did and was relevant to those buying a senior bat.
The thread was initially was whether there is a problem with the Mikens. It broadened to whether the Reeboks are better. To question someones integrity is wrong and disgusting. The
statement is that there exists industry info that Reeboks are the best selling senior bats.
Don't shoot the messenger. It is interesting that no manufacturer has questioned the veracity of the statement. Get proof, or stop ruining the discussions for those of us who want to learn and not attack each other.
June 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
HJ, the moon is made of blue cheese. I guess I am telling the truth unless you can refute it. Kind of silly, isn't it?

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, NOT on anyone else. So sad how common sense is often not common.

Oh, and my son is in the Army Bomb Squad in Afghanistan. His unit is brave. Please don't ever use that word again to describe someone posting unsubstantiated statements on this board. Doing that is "wrong and disgusting"!
June 21, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
No, not silly at all. Scientists make hypotheses all the time based on the science known at the time. It is up to other scientists by objecting testing to prove or disprove it. We have had pictures from the moon, people on the moon and pictures of the moon and moon "dust" brought back to earth, we can conclude that it is not made of blue cheese. No one has refuted with any evidence that Tri does not know industry sales figures or they are wrong.
Being in a bomb squad is clearly brave and we all
hope and pray for your son's safe return. But there are other kinds of bravery and I think it is brave to jeopardize ones livelihood to help others learn the facts as Tri has done.
June 21, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Slighty off topic, but don't be so quick to say we have had people on the moon and moondust brought back. I am far from a conspiracy theorist, but I am not so sure all that happened quite like the government would like us to believe.

Perhaps it is just me, but to stretch the use of the word "brave" just cheapens it for those who really are.

And please keep in mind it was Bomber who first looked for some real evidence of his claim, I just agreed with him.

Oh, and thanks for the kind words for my son and his unit.
June 21, 2012
donll
60 posts
What about the GSC? Is that why Miken has changed their specs?
June 21, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
G19.....I think donll will go along with your blue cheese theory. Miken affected by GSC? I mean... that's just nuts.
June 21, 2012
donll
60 posts
Do you mean that you don't think the GSC is coming out soon and will revolutionize the bat industry?
June 22, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
Bomber originally asked a straightforward simple question, what is the source of your facts?
Before his question could be answered, this thread got derailed by this unwarranted snide remark which questioned integrity before any response was given:

"Bomber, I think we both know the answer to your very valid question."

Bomber's question was then answered that the source was based on nationwide factual industry information. This response was given in a respectful way, acknowledged there could be more info out there and requested if anyone had more info to state it. No one has stepped forward to factually contradict the answer, but instead the respondent has been unjustly harangued. An appropriate response to the answer might have been, "If anyone has more specific information please post it. Thank you." That would have kept the thread going rationally but made the point that the answer was not very specific.
June 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Call it snide, but the only response Tri gave was rhetoric. That answer of his is not an answer. "nationwide factual industry information" is not a source, just isn't.

Oh, and my snide remark turned out to be 100% true. No source has been identified. None.
June 22, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
901 posts
I have read all the above posts and some have been insightful indeed. I can share the following: I used the Miken U-II for many years and was very pleased with it. When I was asked to test the Melee Legend in the mountains 2.5 years ago, I agreed and saw an immediate difference. I have been using a Melee Legend and helping other players achieve their bat goals since then.

I do not make claims regarding numbers and/or date because seniors are independent, outspoken and educated for the most part. What I do claim, is the positive experience I have had with the product and that I am a customer service individual that truly cares about helping people.

It sometimes strikes me as sad to see all the dissention that seems to creep into the senior message boards from time to time. I like to learn from the boards and it gets difficult to wade through the mud slinging. Thanks to all for allowing me to share a tidbit. ed@ewandrews.com surf88
June 23, 2012
PJ3P
Men's 50
77 posts
Donít waste your breath on fools, for they will despise the wisest advice
Prov 23:9
Translation; don't feed the troll!
June 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Don't worry about wasting your breath, it has no value.
June 23, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Most people involved in senior softball have raised families, fought wars, meet lives challenges and deserve respect and the benefit of doubt. Life has taught me that those who disrespect others usually don't respect themselves. We have choices, can we keep this board a positive opportunity to share information without worrying about someone jumping on any opportunity to insult. I appreciate those who have given me answers when requested. Again thank you.
June 23, 2012
ArMando
8 posts
Experience the same deadbat purchased my ultra from kelley ultimate less than a couple of months ago . I am going to email kelley to see what they tell me.
June 24, 2012
Player
30 posts
Just my two cents; I've broken four Rebok endloads (one 28oz and three 26oz) since last November. They all performed as expected but didn't last. Being poverty stricken, I returned to the balanced (black) U2 (bpf 1.21) and am sorely disappointed - and I have well over 200 swings on it. It feels like a piece of wood when contact is made and very little distance. It's been that way from the date of purchase about two months ago. Ed, I agree, the Rebok is good. But, I can't afford the cost.
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