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Discussion: Why are fees so high?

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May 14, 2019
SunnySoCal
2 posts
Why are fees so high?
Can you answer a question for me as this is my first year playing 40s ball. I don’t mean to sound rude, but why are tournaments so expensive? I am playing a GSL 40s event in a couple of weeks at Hemet and it’s low $400s. These exact locations are being used in June by SSUSA and the fee is $500+

Don’t even get me started on what Vegas cost and the field conditions at Sunset...
May 14, 2019
TimMcElroy
401 posts
If I'm looking at the right tournament (Memorial Day ?) it looks to me like the Utrip / GSL tournament in Hemet is a 3 game guarantee for $420. The SSUSA is event is a 5 game guarantee for $555 and includes some game balls. The senior event is cheaper is about $30 - $40 per game cheaper.

The GSL event is also listed as a non-qualifier which, I assume is code for "we're not looking at rosters, so bring who you want." The SSUSA event at Hemet is a qualifier for the Western Nationals, The World Masters Championships and the Tournament of Champions so rosters will be checked in advance of play, and again at the tournament site.

Being a first year player there are subtle things about the SSUSA program that you may not have noticed (or fortunately haven't had a reason to notice). Directors at SSUSA events are not only trained in our processes, but are certified in basic first aid and the use of AEDs. Many of us are also CPR certified. Hope this helps. Good luck in both events.


May 14, 2019
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1219 posts
the fees are so high so they can afford the all world patches. ;-)
May 15, 2019
curveball
Men's 65
641 posts
Sonny, a guy from CA complaining about high prices???? That's really funny!!! Where else is more expensive than CA? Have you looked around your surroundings at what things cost? Homes, taxes, gas, motels, auto registration, and the general cost of everything pertaining to daily living all off the charts!

If this were your business, how much would you charge? What expenses would you eliminate to bring down the entry fee?
May 15, 2019
tattooball
749 posts
How about paying those fees and playing the same 4 or 5 teams all year.
May 15, 2019
stick8
1679 posts
Insurance and field rental are two prime factors in why some events are expensive.
May 16, 2019
Garocket
Men's 55
253 posts
In my area the field rental on most complexes are $250.00 per field per day plus you must pay cash 2 people at $20.00 per hour starting 1 hour before 1st game and 1 hour after last game over. Friday thru Sunday, using the four fields Staring at 8:00 am last game over around 7:00 pm Friday and Saturday and games from 8:00 am until 3 on Sunday. Total cost $4200.00. Plus the insurance.
May 16, 2019
SKings24
35 posts
I am not a director for SSUSA but I run events and I have ran 40's in my area very successfully. GSL/USSSA are requiring all teams to have rosters online and yes we do check them, its not a free for all. Also, 3 game guarantee bracket which to me means more than pool play as each game matters. Also 1 day event in most instances. Also I provide each team with 6 new balls to start. As well as the prize package being much different than SSUSA. Play in a GSL/USSSA and see what you think, I believe most will enjoy it and have an alternative to others out there. Reading about it and playing in it are two different things.
May 16, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2408 posts
I surprised that nobody has mentioned the significant resources committed to managing this "Complaint Department" operation ...

JUST KIDDING! ...
May 16, 2019
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1219 posts
That was next on my list Dave, after the all tourney patches of course!:-)
May 16, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1186 posts
Dave, these discussions always make me think of Layla with her list of things that are "free" but not.

To put it succinctly in the words of Timmy Fishburn "People can add but don't know how to subtract.
May 17, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2408 posts
That's a GREAT memory, Nancy! ... The late Layla Bryant (Hall of Fame Director from SPA) stood very tall in Senior Softball, despite her 4'-11" stature! ... We miss her terribly! ... In 2007, I heard her explain this to a guy who had the poor judgment to complain about BOTH high entry fees AND excessive profitability for SPA and SSUSA during a rain delay in Phoenix, which was also apparently our fault according to him! ... Most everyone passes the multiplication part (number of teams times entry fee = gross receipts) of the analysis, but they flunk miserably on the subtraction part (which is somewhat relevant in the profit determination) ... I'll never forget it, because she was so perfect in the presentation! ... This is as far down the speech as she got before he turned around and walked away without another word ... An instant classic worthy of a re-post! ...

Layla's List of Reasons for Profitability


• Field rentals are FREE;
• Field preparation services are FREE;
• Umpires and U.I.C.'s all work for FREE;
• Tournament and Field Directors all work for FREE;
• Tournament softballs are FREE;
• All Award packages are FREE;
• Souvenir tee shirts we sell are produced and shipped to us for FREE;
• Director and staff air and ground transportation is FREE;
• Director, staff and umpire hotels are FREE;
• All meeting rooms and A/V setups for manager and staff meetings are FREE;
• Rental cars are FREE;
• Block ice, 1,000's of paper cups and water coolers are FREE;
• FedEx Office services for thousands of dollars in printing and reproduction costs are FREE;
• The Home Office staff personnel who put the tournaments together work for months for FREE; and
• Home Office rents and utilities are FREE

... And that's not the entire list! ... Again, she was simply hilarious! ...

May 17, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1186 posts
Thanks, Dave. I was hoping that you would retell it. I miss her too. Wait, she was shorter than me?
May 18, 2019
NYGNYY
97 posts
I am amazed at the responses to a reasonable question. I would think you would give them the benefit of doubt. Trying to figure out who the paying customer is here. If this was a real business and their customer service department responded this way ...they would not be in business very long. Oh I forgot it is. Thanks for the math class ....nice touch. Definitely could have been answered in a more thoughtful manner.
May 18, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1186 posts
NYGNYY, I apologize if you think that anyone is not focused on customer service. I just have been amazed over the years how players have yelled at Timmy at our local park because they focus on gross earnings vs net earnings. I have often wondered if anyone acts like this at golf courses, football games, or auto races. I personally wish that I had my gross pay vs net pay. Yes, I get details on my pay stub, but almost everything that I buy does not have a detailed list of the costs that went into its production. I love softball but have the luxury of it not being my business. I hope that you and I enjoy the sport for a very long time.
May 19, 2019
Benji4
206 posts
NYGNYY

Really? You became offended on how a person answered a question on a website? Are you as sensitive as a 8th girl on her period? And we all wonder why America is turning into Europe where everyone walks around completely scared.

I am going to help ya out. Before you start reading this site PUT YOUR BIG BOY UNDERWEAR ON SO YOU WON'T BE EASILY OFFENDED.

Nobody at SSUSA is getting rich running softball tournaments and if you don't like the service play elsewhere.

Benji

May 20, 2019
stever
Men's 65
85 posts
Nancy, I can answer your question about if people act this way at golf courses. A resounding yes. They seem to think golf should be free and don't understand the cost of the level of maintenance they demand. The net margin for operating a golf course is in the very low single digits (if there is any at all) yet everyone seems to think we are ripping them off. The result is that more and more courses are closing every year because they are not profitable. People want high quality (softball tournaments as well as golf courses) but don't want to pay the price it costs to provide that quality. Then they bitch when things aren't perfect.
May 20, 2019
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1186 posts
stever, thanks for answering that. I had always wondered. Unfortunately my suspicions were true. The cost of maintenance at a golf course is way over what I could even imagine. I never thought about being angry at someone for providing the service that I wanted, let alone yelling at them especially when the business assumes all of the risk.
May 20, 2019
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1219 posts
NYGNYY LMAO "If this were a real business." Dave Dowell, can you send my coach the Non Profit number.. we been missing the boat! ;-}
May 21, 2019
Wayne 37
Men's 60
555 posts
SunnySoCal,

They will never discuss finances on this site.

Price gouging are dirty words in these here parts.
May 21, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2408 posts
Wayne 37 ... You've typed a staggering number of stupid, ill-informed things on this board over the years, which we (for some crazy reason) allow, but this is a "Lifetime Non-Achievement Award" post, even for you ... Normally, we would just delete one like this, but it's so bad it needs to stay as an example ... We are a not-for-profit entity, which means our annual Form 990 tax returns are a matter of public record ... Take a look sometime, actually study them, and then post an appropriate apology later ... Unbelievable ...
May 21, 2019
B.J.
536 posts
Dave, we couldn't get him to read and study a rule book and you expect him to read and study your tax returns.. good luck with that...lol
May 21, 2019
rightrj1
Men's 55
273 posts
Wow..LMAO...You guys are very entertaining...I needed the laugh today....Thanks Wayne , Thanks Benji, (8th grade on her period) ha ha ha ha Thanks Dave Ha Ha ha
May 21, 2019
garyheifner
554 posts
Just a thought:

If any of U out there think they can start a new association at a cheaper price-go for it:

Call it the "SSSBA"

"SOCIALIST SENIOR SOFTBALL ASSOCIATION"

Your team shows up and everything is "FREE"
May 21, 2019
Wayne 37
Men's 60
555 posts
You mad brah?

Why don't you post your Form 990 for all to see. Or you can give me the information and I can do it for you.

I used to fill one out for my union branch every year when I was treasurer. Took all of 10 minutes. Had it set up on Quicken. I know how to hide money myself.

Showed a loss on expenses every year. Don't mean we lost money though. Do you send 1099's every year or a W-2?

All the other people on here and you chose me to personally attack. Maybe you should take something for your keyboard diarrhea.

LMAO
May 21, 2019
TimMcElroy
401 posts
Wayne,

Please stop. Your antics aren't funny, cute or the least bit entertaining. It is time to start acting like a 60+ year old man.
May 21, 2019
Omar Khayyam
1279 posts
Wayne, why the anger? You made the accusation "price gouging" and then state that you were the treasurer for a union that hid money (illegally I presume). Unbelivable. Since you shared that you were battling health issues, I give you a slight pass, but this is really unacceptable.
May 21, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2408 posts
Hilarious! ... Doubling down with a loser hand ... But for the sake of community amusement, we'll play along and respond to your commentary, in the order you ranted ...

• Not mad (whatever a "brah" might be) ... More accurately just somewhat amused so far;
• Senior Softball World Championships, Inc., is a tax-exempt organization, under IRC §501(c)(4), subject to the Internal Revenue Service financial information disclosure requirements ... We are in complete compliance with the IRC in that regard;
• Congrats on being able to fill out the post-card Form 990-EZ for entities that don't meet the threshold for the full Form 990 ... That post card shouldn't have taken more than three minutes, though ... The 2017 federal Form 990 (2018 on extension) was quite lengthy ... I prepared it, as I have done for over twenty years ... Go find it if you are truly curious ...
• We have no opinion (other than total amazement) that you seem to be admitting to committing tax fraud on behalf of your union hall ... Not very smart ... We issued Forms W-2 to all nine employees and Forms 1099-MISC to every recipient who earned $600 or more ... There were over 250 such recipients last year ...
• Almost all, no, make that ALL, of the others who post here do not invite a firm response for the stupidity of their postings ... You are unique ...
• Here's what I can do, if you think there is an illness here ... I can suspend your posting privileges in a flash ... You wouldn't be the first to have that happen, only the most recent ... Now would be an excellent time to commence posting responsibly ... This is our house, with our rules, and you WILL lose access if you persist ... That's not a threat, it's a guarantee ...

We know you are a "..gotta have the last word.." kind of guy here ... Be careful how you do it this time, so it's only the last post in this thread before we close it, but not your last post ever ...

May 22, 2019
Wayne 37
Men's 60
555 posts
Nowhere on your website does it state SSUSA in a not for profit entity 501(c)(4)


Omar Khayyam
1279 posts
Wayne, why the anger? You made the accusation "price gouging" and then state that you were the treasurer for a union that hid money (illegally I presume). Unbelivable. Since you shared that you were battling health issues, I give you a slight pass, but this is really unacceptable.

Where would I hide it illegally? I started a building fund so maybe one day we could have our own union hall to hold meetings, weddings and other functions for our members FREE.

TimMcElroy
401 posts
Wayne,

Please stop. Your antics aren't funny, cute or the least bit entertaining. It is time to start acting like a 60+ year old man.

I could say the same about several others and I wasn't trying to be cute, funny or entertaining.

DaveDowell
Men's 65
2405 posts
Hilarious! ... Doubling down with a loser hand ... But for the sake of community amusement, we'll play along and respond to your commentary, in the order you ranted ...

There was no rant involved. There isn't one place on the website stating SSUSA is a tax-exempt 501(c)(4)

Again, how did I exactly commit tax fraud? (See above post.) You don't recall the time you said I had keyboard diarrhea? It was funny then. I don't really care if you don't like me personally, but it was you and a couple of others who started on me a long time ago....I'm willing to let bygones be bygones. A good start would be your not talking down to me almost every chance you get. Disagreeing with one another is one thing, but I've been right about things on several occasions, but then I have a lot more experience and training than the average softball umpire. You might try using it instead of abusing it.
May 22, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2408 posts
Wayne: "Nowhere on your website does it state SSUSA i[s] a not for profit entity 501(c)(4).." ... As is frequently the case, you are wrong again ... There is an entire web page devoted to the topic ... I personally generated that page when this website made its debut in its current format many years ago (before I retired after a 30± year career as a CPA) ... EVERY page here has a MENU bar at the top ... Go to LINKSFinancial Disclosures to see for yourself ...
__________

As for the tax fraud "issue" ... During my CPA (pre-softball) career, I had a specialization in representing clients in IRS examination and appeal proceedings ... I also taught two continuing professional education courses for the AICPA titled "Practice & Procedure Before the IRS" and (if the client got beat up there!) "IRS Appellate Procedures" ... I can absolutely assure you that if you were to make this sort of statement to an IRS Agent ...

"..I know how to hide money myself. Showed a loss on expenses every year. Don't mean we lost money though.."

...you would very quickly find yourself in the early stages of an uncomfortable and extensive examination of your financial affairs ... Your statement, on it's face, indicates less than full compliance with the tax laws, something SSUSA takes very seriously ... At least one other member here agreed with me ...
__________

This is not your first public assertion here indicating your lack of respect and compliance for the rules ... Here's a quick two-post exchange (from nine months ago today) regarding your admission that, at least at one time, you owned an altered bat ... You also, incredibly, provided a sort of endorsement of the bat "doctor" ...

Aug. 22, 2018 • Wayne 37
I believe this would for sure be altering of a bat. The reason, you can send it off to a "bat doctor" and they will do the same thing for a fee. I sent an old Miken II off years ago just to see how it would perform. It went from a 27 to 29 ounce and the pop it added was amazing. That guy knew what he doing as far as altering a bat. He was high tech in his approach to the way he did it.
Aug. 22, 2018 • DaveDowell
Not a wise idea, Wayne 37, to be publicly stating that you, at least at one time, owned an "altered" bat and maybe still do for all we know ... And the "endorsement" of the bat-doctor isn't helping your image, either ...
__________

For someone who self-professes tremendous knowledge of rules, we find it odd that you appear to apply that knowledge in a "theoretical" realm and not the real world of your behavior ... But, on the bright side, your attitude improved slightly on that post ...

** THREAD CLOSED **

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