http://seniorsoftball.com/?page=12

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 1 member: neck10; 17 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: Best Pitcher

Posted Discussion
Jan. 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Best Pitcher
I normally do not get to the 'Players looking for a team' discussions very often, so when a friend asked if I had heard about the unhittable pitcher, I had to admit I hadn't. After reading and getting some pretty good laughs over the comments and repartee, I have one comment. In 55 years of competitive ball, I have played baseball, fast pitch softball and slow pitch all of my life. Fast pitch softball was by far the toughest. I pitched baseball through college and experimented with every release I could imagine. Cerce, really, what can you do with a ball we haven't seen? Especially traveling slow, over 50 feet, and having to hit a mat? And do you really think we won't adjust to this 'wonder pitch'?

Having said that, I am curious as to whom you guys consider the best pitchers in the game. Bobby Davis certainly is extremely tough, especially when he throws that knuckle ball. Dang thing dances like you are batting in an earthquake. Let's have some fun with this thread!
Jan. 24, 2013
southpaw
Men's 60
745 posts
Not me!! Thankfully I have picked up 2 new pitchers to replace the 2 who departed after this past season.
Jan. 24, 2013
Jack
Men's 55
417 posts
Hey Webbie, you are going to be at the TOC? Better be I never get pictures of you!!
Jan. 24, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
I like these Pitchers, Phil Flip Ladezman(Mavericks),Joe ?( Road Dogs, Double Play),Mack Lowe & Ron D(GSF), Billy Gambos(Nighthawks),Conway Waddy & Travis-3 Dog (D&K), The good ones can pitch, hit and field the middle. I hope I didn't jack up too bad on spelling of their names. OH Yea
and just because I played with and against him for over 35 years.... Wayne Gaylor(NCI)..
Jan. 24, 2013
GSWP001
Men's 60
74 posts
This whole thread has been fun to read. It reminds me of the S.I. article years ago when they touted and guy who pitched in combat boots and could throw 120 mph. What a story, but was fun to read.
Jan. 24, 2013
Corky
Men's 55
449 posts
Webbie.......That's not what John tells me about his pitching prowess....course he's usually had a few when this conversation comes up.....have a good year
Jan. 24, 2013
oldnslow
19 posts
I like the two pitchers on Stahl Post. Chuck "Da Judge" Rand and Dougie "Westward Ho" Westcott.

Gotta luv those two!!
Jan. 24, 2013
Player
32 posts
Webbie, I have to agree with you about Bobby Davis. The only time he throws a "straight" ball is the occasional BP he pitches. Then he's like a machine! Game day though, I think he just "messes" with us 'cause he can! LOL
Jan. 24, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
You are assuming Bobby can see straight...I have had BP pitchers that try to work on their game while pitching BP. I spent $140 on a pitching machine so Castro, Lloyd, Crawford and I can hit good balls without us being there for 2 hours. Amazing how quickly you can do BP when every ball is 11' and a strike.

Back to the thread (West Coast bias rearing its ugly head except for Bobby Davis - Hollis, Manny-Mavericks, Flip-Mavericks, Gombos-Nighthawks, Ray Ray-Double Play (that is who you meant Kennard), and Conway-DK are the best at throwing a difficult ball and fielding the middle. The book is still out on our new pitcher, Mickey-Joe Brown's Allstars, but I think he is gonna be a goodin.
Jan. 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Hey-Jack-no TOC this year for me, but we have qualified for next year already. Have fun as you always do.

John/pitching prowess??? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Have a great year Corky.

Back in the 70's we had a pitcher named Eddie Eidenmiller that could bring rain in the unlimited days. He struck out over 50 one year playing at the top levels here.

Jan. 24, 2013
4Four4
Men's 60
83 posts
Leo "Matador" Harrington on Athletic Outlet/Bathtub Billy's is a excellent pitcher with lots of different grips/release points and a 3B glove. Fun to play behind. Monster bat. Monkey Bar MVP.
Jan. 24, 2013
Full Monty
80 posts
Here we go with the "Best Pitcher".

And everybody names somebody that most of us never heard of.

Just a few weeks ago we did the "Best Lead Off Hitter".

So what will it be in the next few weeks?
"Best 3rd Baseman"?
"Best Outfielder"?
"Best Clean Up"?
"Batboy"?
Jan. 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Why not Full Monty-it's the off season!! Let's have some fun here and give some guys recognition.

You pick the next position.
Jan. 24, 2013
Bubble Gum
65 posts


Maybe this is Senior Softball's version of the Academy Awards!

The good news is that there are No Long Boring speech's or stupid trophy's....YET!


Jan. 24, 2013
Full Monty
80 posts
GUYS?

Obviously, you don't give a rats azz about the women that play senior softball.
Jan. 24, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Why, do you have some X rate pictures of them that you would like to share with us. If you do, I'm really not interested. lol lol... Don't be so serious.
Jan. 24, 2013
southernson
261 posts
Full Monty,
Yes, you would be correct, "I don't give a rats azz about the women that play senior softball."
You see, none of them play on my team.
Jan. 24, 2013
crump22
Men's 50
46 posts
canljack,whats up? how were your Holiday? I,m going with Reedus [Motown,Linedrive, OKI and Texas in the BASA] as the best pitcher and hitter in senior softball,
Jan. 24, 2013
Full Monty
80 posts
southernson

So only "the best" play on your team?

WOW!

Never lost a game?
Never lost a tournament?



Jan. 24, 2013
Snot Nose Kid
48 posts
southernson

Who knows.....

Who cares....

who plays on your team?
Jan. 24, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
Our team does not have a bat boy, we have a BAT VALET. Nobody better than Joe Brown. Every bat is lined up, they are always wiped down, umpire always has balls (no pun intended), and no bats are ever left in the dugout. It seems silly, but he truly adds value to our team.
Jan. 24, 2013
Bubble Gum
65 posts
I have tried to resist adding my 2 cents in this thread.

When the term "The Best" is used, that implies that of all SSUSA member players, there is "no one" in any age group, ability level or sex that is equal to this one person in all the various categories required for that position.

So unless you have seen ALL PITCHERS (for example) in ALL the SSUSA sanctioned events, then it is ridiculous to name anyone as being "The Best".


Jan. 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Wow, all I wanted to do was start an interesting thread with OPINIONS from people on pitchers. I apologize to all the women softball players, for excluding them in my comments.

I guess my question to you Full Monty is why in the world does this bother you so much that you sound like Gary19 used to? Did you forget how to have a little fun about a subject?
Jan. 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Mike-I almost mentioned Mickey because even though it was only one tournament, he was nothing short of spectacular for a pitcher at M+. He bears watching, and I am glad he is on my team.
Jan. 24, 2013
Full Monty
80 posts
Webbie25

I think Bubble Gum explains it correctly.

You used the term "The Best", which is saying "I have seen everybody in SSUSA that plays that position at all ages, levels, sexes and this person is the best".

Did you actually see all the others?

I see you play in 60's age group, does that include all levels of 60's?

I have no doubt that there are those that are in the younger age groups that are better than those you call "The Best".

Any ball players ratings are based on their playing numbers.

I notice you didn't bother to give any numbers to support "The Best".

The pitcher you named "The Best"
What is the Win/Loss record?
What is his ERA or WHIP?
What is his BA?

With out numbers how else can players be compared?
If you want to call somebody "The Best" then put up some sort of proof.

Jan. 24, 2013
ALLPRO
43 posts
Best Pitcher I ever faced and had the pleasure of playing on the same team with was Sammy Sapienza (sp)of the New York Statesman, bar none. Fierce competitor with a "Herky, Jerky motion that drove hitters nuts!
Jan. 24, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Can't have fun, can you, full Monty. Pity.
Jan. 24, 2013
Full Monty
80 posts
Webbie25 is the Best!
Jan. 24, 2013
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Webbie25, it's established that choosing the "best" is a wide range considering the 8 age groups and 4 levels (32 different groups, all of whose teams have pitchers). I'm intrigued by the names, but except for a couple of national tournaments, will not likely get to see those so far nominated, and even then I'm usually at a different complex.

I'd be interested in getting more explicit in this discussion: you've added best fielder to your criteria, and I suppose pitch selection relevant to each batter is part of the equation, but how about nominating some in the following categories (considering the limitations of arc and hitting the mat):

best knuckleball (must dance on a windless day)
best curve (largest? most spin?)
best screwball (same as above)
most accurate (at all heights)
most distracting, but legal, motion
Jan. 24, 2013
GI
Men's 60
168 posts
Webbie you troublemaker, To answer your question I would have to say the best pitchers I have faced and most difficult were in USSSA and also back in 70's with unlimited ark. Today with the dumb 0-0 count hitting off a pitcher could not be much easier. Throwing underhanded, 6 to 12 foot , if your lucky and with bats that can send you straight to the nursing home being a good pitcher is pretty limited these days. I have pitched for over 30 years now and really only thing we can do as a pitcher is throw 1st strike without fear because people love to see the first strike than try our best to hit a corner or once in awhile throw a illegal pitch and cover ourself with as much protection as possible when the middle shot flys by. I will still try what ever I can to get a small advantage but it is a hitters game. Still even with what I just said thank God we can still be a part of the game. I am glad that we can voice our feelings both good and bad and look forward to seeing all on the field for as long as God permits. Pitchers today must realize no matter how good they are that one day a ball will find them and lets hope that when it does they will be lucky enough to return to the game.
Jan. 25, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
You're right, GI-what a troublemaker I am-to start a thread for fun. How DARE I? GI, you always made me work at the plate and you find the sun better than any pitcher I know if it is close enough to put a pitch into it.

Omar-not being able to play or get outside much to work out is boring. Feel free to take this thread wherever you want--JUST MAKE IT FUN!!!!
Jan. 25, 2013
southernson
261 posts
Webbie,
It was a good thread, you get to compare some opinions, and learn about some players you may not know.

Full Monty, Snot Nose, All I said was I didn't care about listing the women pitchers. There was a time when I did as I coached a travelling team of women and played/coached a travel team of men. But that time has passed.
Jan. 25, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
I agree with Crump.Reedus is one of the best hitters in the Country -fields the middle-can pitch at any level.Can't go wrong with Reedus.
Jan. 25, 2013
hitman
Men's 65
309 posts
Back in the day DelMastro from Pittsburgh was one of the best.
I still would like to see this unhitable pitcher because I don't believe it. Yea maybe for a game or even two but consistently no way. Every dog has his day and back in 88 I threw a perfect game NO/NO and the next day in a tourney I had 23 scored off me in the 1st inning. No that will bring you off a high real quick!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan. 25, 2013
stick8
1325 posts
At the risk of being biased because he's my teammate and a good friend I agree wholeheartedly with Crump and Titanhd. I've played with and against Reedus for nearly 30 years and I can honestly say that it's so much better being on the same team as him then competing against him!!
He's the best I've ever seen.
Jan. 25, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
152 posts
We went through about 3 or 4 OKI Pitchers, so I'm guessing Reedus wasn't present. Oh wait, was he the guy without Sleeves ! ? ! ?


Regards,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Jan. 25, 2013
Tim Millette
522 posts
It should be obvious that there have been/are TONS of great pitchers.

How else can you explain why many seniors support a game/whined so much that it's no longer legal for.....

Pitchers to pump fake

Pitchers to jump at the batter

Pitchers to throw around their back/between their legs.

Pitchers being forced to present the ball before pitching

Forcing pitchers to land a ball on that small mat

Making a legal pitch ONLY between six to twelve feet

Allowing the rocket launcher senior bats

Making umpires call illegal while the pitch is in the air

Going back in time to 0-0 counts

Using the HOTTEST ball

It's so bad we now have to stop hitting when we get five runs!!!

I mean what's next? Outlawing knuckle balls and curves?

Let's stop pretending here.... Senior have created a game where it's almost impossible not to think/pretend your a good hitter and pitchers cannot stop you.

pitching is the most dangerous spot on the field...without a doubt two things are clear...

No one else on the field is a valuable to his team as the guy on the mound.

And......the pitcher has had almost every tool in his craft taken away from him in senior ball..... All so a bunch of old guys can pretend like they are better players then they really are/would be if we continued the play the game like we did while we were young with no senior/Composite bats and rock hard balls.


Jan. 25, 2013
crump22
Men's 50
46 posts
JDub, i don,t play for OKI anymore, so i were not in phx. when your team played them, so i don,t know if he pitch or played 3rd base, as a pitcher you know you can,t trick no one in senior softball. Its about mat location.He were the Black guy,since they only have one , so you tell me.I just stated my opinion to a question Webbie ask.I stil believe he is the best pitcher and hitter in senior softball.
Jan. 25, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
Webbie's statement - whom you guys consider the best pitchers in the game.

If Webbie asked who is the Best pitcher in the game then conceivably you would be correct in your analogy that he had not seen everyone therefore his conclusion would be flawed.

However, since he qualified his request by stating who do you “consider” the best, he requested an opinion therefore all responses would be deemed responsive. Personal opinion is accepted unless the term expert opinion is applied then the individual’s experience is foundational in determining value.

Just start every sentence with “in my opinion" and your comments are considered as delivered.

Caveat: This does not work when talking to you wife, teenage kids or the IRS…just saying
Jan. 25, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
What’s up crump22, Happy New Year to you and the Stars? Hey Crump, I totally agree that Reedus is the Best in 50+ Senior Softball. I still remember hitting 2 out on him in Virginia with my Boombah (smile). No dis respect but I was just mentioning the guys in 60+ divisions my brother. See you soon
Jan. 25, 2013
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Tim you need to cry someplace else. If I had that many things to piss and moan about I wouldnt play Senior Ball.
And for the others who took this thread as anything but a fun place, you are far too serious about life. Lighten up boys. In My opinion.
Mark, thanks for taking many of us back its been fun!
In My opinion......
Thanks Mike....
Jan. 25, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Okay Mike, Lets try this, “It is my opinion" That M3 is the Best pitcher that I have not seen in a long time. Like Webbie said " Let have sum fun" with this.
Jan. 25, 2013
Full Monty
80 posts

For "Best Pitcher --In My Opinion"

I nominate Manti Te'o's non-existent girlfriend!

You will NOT see a bigger "Curve Ball" than the one she threw!


Jan. 25, 2013
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Monty I agree, "In My opinion" he/she really pitched a great game.
Jan. 25, 2013
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Rick Weiterman
Paul Drilling
Buddy Slater
Andy Purcell
Jan. 25, 2013
Tim Millette
522 posts
E4 or E6, I am just stating facts...

Maybe you haven't in you to point out where I was wrong?

But somehow I doubt your up to it.



Jan. 25, 2013
GI
Men's 60
168 posts
Tim enjoyed your thoughts and views about the game and pitching. It takes alot of courage to stand on that mound at times. Not a easy thing to do to throw strikes and look for small ways to get a batter out when things are stacked up for the hitter. I was really sad to see 1-1 count discounted esp. when it was clear the 40-58 crowd was in favor of making the change. As Martin L. King said we can all have a dream . Who knows maybe one day 1-1 count will be considered and we can play 7 inning games. I am encouraging our team members to swing at first strike this year as I know I will throw down the middle and it will be best pitch to hit. 6-8 foot right down the pipe. I can promise the 2nd pitch will not be the same after strike, than you will have to deal with higher ark, quick pitches or whatever else i can get away with. I have said before and will again, great to be on the field, what a rush to spend time with guys who I have competed with for so long. I look forward to new season in Feb and I also continue to keep coach Barry CJS in my thoughts for a health recovery and to see him back on field running our team. Best of luck to you in Tucson this weekend.
Jan. 26, 2013
stick8
1325 posts
JDub, Reedus was with us in Phoenix when we played your team. He didn't play in that game because he hurt his back in the first game of the day.
Jan. 26, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
152 posts
Stick8,

Just wasn't sure if we saw your Best since you used 3 or 4 different guys in the Championship Game!? Our Best Pitcher was Outstanding all Weekend, so we didn't need to use any of our backups. Thank Goodness cuz one is a real @%#&^$ ! ! !


Regards,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Jan. 27, 2013
stick8
1325 posts
Jeff, I suppose we could have used the old "could have, would have, should have, or if we would have only had our best hitter, outfielder, pitcher, etc etc " excuses but I tend to beleive that's a knee-jerk reaction. I'd love to have a dollar for every time I've overheard players being serious using that old canard as to why their team lost. I might be in Bill Gates income level!! lol
Honestly, going in I felt pretty confident with what we had we could do the double dip. You guys played better than we did and certainly deserved to win.
We did use 3 pitchers who's earned run average you guys are responsible for increasing!! lol
Hope your winter is going well and maybe we'll lock up again down the road.
Stick #3
OKI Players

Jan. 27, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
152 posts
Stick,

We are so Thankful for such a Great Turnout. AZ, CA, CO, KS, OH, and TX were all Represented Well. There were a lot of really Good Games, and on paper it looks like a much better turnout than the TOC is going to have ! ! !

I'm sure we've all had way too many Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda Experiences that we'd simply like to Forget - I know I've had my share. Arizona Elite looks forward to playing OKI again as well. We pretty much Play Far West & Southwest since there are so many Quality Teams & Tournaments out here. Winter is just about over for us, and I'm sure we're all looking forward to Spring Training. That's another venue that attracts so many to Play out here in Phoenix as well. Good Luck to all in 2013 ! ! !


Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Jan. 27, 2013
stick8
1325 posts
Jeff one thing I did enjoy about playing in Phoenix was the weather!
We don't really have a spring training up here in the midwest. It's practice when you can and then in April or May it's play ball.
Jan. 27, 2013
neck10
513 posts
hey guys what about bobby davis from hollis
Jan. 28, 2013
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
Well guys I'm going to jump into the fray here with a blast from the past and nominate an ex-team mate - BP partner & friend. AC Linde was a great pitcher that helped establish the Old A's as one of the pre-eminent best teams in the history of senior softball.

While not possessing the great physical skills of a great many others he was edgy/agressive/combative/wily/always competitive on a team that took 50+ major championships in it's day. After that he added a few more to end up with about 70 or so rings. A HOF pitcher by any measure and I'll put him up against anyone here currently being held in high esteem.

Anyone that played against him knew they had their hands full.......
Jan. 28, 2013
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Tim I'm not arguing your "Facts", only the "Fact" that you seem to always want things changed.
My point is, why? Its very obvious the vast majority likes the way Senior Ball is going and is being played.
Half of the "Facts" you list are better suited to a circus act.
Let me guess, are you a pitcher?
You want to return to an era gone bye and its just not going to happen. Pretty plain and simple.

Sorry Mark....

Jan. 28, 2013
Tim Millette
522 posts
Actually E4, I don't pitch for our team.

I am just stating obvious facts.

I am sorry if it hurts your iddy biddy feeling on some inflated ability to hit a softball playing senior ball.

Thinking your a great softball hitter while playing senior ball under the current rules would be like walking out of a whore house bragging about how every women wanted you.

Sorry....just facts...

Jan. 28, 2013
donll
61 posts
I vote for Cerce as best pitcher ever.
Jan. 28, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1010 posts
LMAO... Donll, that was good!
Jan. 29, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Has Cerce found a team?
Jan. 29, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1010 posts
Rumor has it, Cerce will be signed by the world Champion SF Giants.. He may replace the Freak... His delivery is not as Freakish as Cerce's and he lost so much on his fast ball, that they need to replace him with the "Best" ;-)
Jan. 31, 2013
Corky
Men's 55
449 posts
Although RJ from OKI is an aggravating pitcher with all his antics.......Kirk Stierwalt a converted 3rd baseman tosses some nasty stuff n fields the middle as good as anyone I've seen.
Jan. 31, 2013
Corky
Men's 55
449 posts
BTW Kirk Played with Brickyard Softball out of Indy.....Since he's moving up to 55's this year, I believe he'll be shovin for the "Antique Roadshow" out of Indy...
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners