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Discussion: CR

Posted Discussion
Dec. 14, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
CR
Lets take a poll. Do you like the CR rule as it is or not?

I don't like the rule as is!!
Dec. 14, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
248 posts
Love the rule, helps off-set our lack of power. Love to run 5 or 6 times a game, my 3 plus 3 CR's.
Dec. 14, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
yeah another CR thread--I like the rule as is
Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Jeff,

My hunch is we will be in the small minority. Both in terms of this rule and of having some pride. Guys just want to think they are getting some sort of edge, apparently not realizing the other team is getting the same edge, so the advantage goes to no one.
Dec. 14, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
Gary19 I have a simple question for you--you distinctly stated that there is no advantage for either team---then what is your opposition to perhaps and I said perhaps extending the career of someone with a knee or hip ailment???? do you think that someone with a bad knee or hip or a pulled hamstring should not play any longer??? from your own statement I can only assume that is your stance.
Dec. 14, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
All players should play at the level their talent allows them. If body replacements affect talent, then they should play where it would allow them to participate as a player. Not just a hitter. It seems the problem is most feel if you can hit, you can play at whatever level you want. Because no one seems to care if they can run after they hit. It will become an issue when a team blatantly abuses the rule. Like having runners at the upper levels that do not even own a glove. JMO
Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Steve, I have said more than once, actually more than probably 10 times, that it is okay to keep the rule but change it to the last out runs so it cannot be manipulated like it is clearly now.

And actually I do think if you are injured and cannot do the job, rest until you can. But I realize that is not going to fly, so let's just get rid of the blatant abuse of the rule.

By the way Steve, why do we only care about guys where their ability to run is concerned. If I can no longer throw due to a bad shoulder or elbow, can I get a courtesy thrower? Why limit it to just running activities?
Dec. 14, 2011
WXYZ
2 posts
I have read the message board for several years, but this is the first time I have had the time or felt compelled to post.

I believe that a manager should use whatever strategy and make whatever decisions he can to help his team win within the current set of rules. Therefore, I fully support managers using the courtesy runner rule to their advantage and using their fastest available runner whenever they think it will help their team. I would do that if I was a manager.

But personally, I think the courtesy runner rule as it is now written is not good for softball. I think it should be changed. I believe that the spirit of the courtesy runner rule is too often abused. I think we should severely limit the number of courtesy runners, maybe one per inning, or better yet, there should be no courtesy runners at all. If a slow runner is on base during a critical part of the game and the run is important, then use a substitute player or use the entry/reentry rule.

I have been on both sides of courtesy running. 10 years ago, I played the outfield and was used as a courtesy runner almost every inning. Now I play the infield, donít run as fast, and am frequently replaced by a courtesy runner.

Pricer, you are conducting a poll. Mark me down for ďI donít like the courtesy runner rule as it isĒ.
Dec. 14, 2011
frampton
Men's 55
55 posts
I do like the rule as it is. There are limits (nobody can run more than once an inning, you're out if your turn at bat comes around when you're on base), as well as the practical limits that the guys who do run too often are wearing themselves out, which is obviously a concern especially if playing up through the losers' bracket. And, as both teams are playing under the same rules, there isn't necessarily an advantage.

IME, in Northern California anyway, I haven't heard any grousing about it. Seems pretty well accepted, and consistently used, among at least the 55 AAA teams.

And, we are a team of friends -- we *want* to play together, it's not like organized baseball where guys get cut if they are below average and promoted if above average. I suspect our team is like many -- we put our team together and play within the rules as they are, trying to win using every legal advantage we can get. Doesn't seem like a lack of pride to me to play to win.
Dec. 14, 2011
WXYZ
2 posts
I believe that Gary19 doesnít usually add much in the way of positive comments to most threads. Therefore, it is best to completely ignore his posts and comments. Just pretend his posts arenít there. Donít get upset by them. Donít comment on them. Continue the thread by ignoring Gary19 and comment only on those posts that are relevant to the thread. This is what I always did with Einstein. Whenever I saw the short all-caps comments, I ignored them. Threads flowed better and made more sense. I suggest that we all do the same with Gary19 or with anyone else who in the future becomes an annoying pest.
Dec. 14, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Frampton, I have not seen the rule allowing a cr to run once an inning in SSUSA. Has anyone else? Also, what if the so called rabbit is not even in the lineup? He can run as often as he can without worrying about his time at the plate. Maybe for up to 2 runners per inning and even more in the extra innings.
Dec. 14, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
119 posts
another neg post from gary go figure.I say leave it as is.
Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Dear Mr. Anonymous WXYZ (possibly also known as curveball or Tool),

I think you might have just broken your own rule, dumba$$!

Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"neg"? How so? A post with a thought, a suggestion, and reasoning behind it. Foreign to you?

Mind telling me the harm of having the last out run? I can, and have, give many reasons why it would be an improvement.

Dec. 14, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
119 posts
no your telling me i have no pride because i disagree with you.again another neg comment
Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
No, no, no..... Not the reason for the pride comment at all. You are clearly welcome to disagree with me, much moreso than I am to disagree with the old guard on this board.

The lack of pride is in seniors believing they need special accommodations (bats, unlimited runners, so many age groups and classifications) to be able to compete effectively and to have a chance to win rather than to work hard and rely on their abilities.
Dec. 14, 2011
Brett
Men's 55
245 posts
I prefer the rule as is.
Dec. 14, 2011
Brett
Men's 55
245 posts
Once again another simple post, as simple as the poll was (yes or no), gets hijacked by Gary19.
Dec. 14, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
Gary what is your email I would love to argue crs senior bats etc with you but do not want to bore the other guys!! example I am old by your standards I hit out a couple this year using a demarini f3 and with my senior bats ultra ultra 2 usa and a melee end load I hit none out in games but several in BP so the point is??? my legs will allow me to run them out though so I am a CR also you sir are going to give me a fun winter with many laughs!!!!
Dec. 14, 2011
frampton
Men's 55
55 posts
Pricer, I'm pretty sure about the once-per-inning rule; maybe it's just in NCSSA, but I'm pretty sure it's been enforced at the SSUSA tournaments we've played in. You're right about a guy not in the lineup not having to worry about getting caught on base, but I do think the once-per-inning rule eliminates at least some of the perceived abuse issues.

(Slightly OT, I do know that in extra innings, the umps have told us that the last out has to be the runner who starts the inning on second; I seem to remember that he could only be run for once he advances to third, but I could be mis-remembering that part of it.)

And, as I said, I don't see them as "special accommmodations" -- I think they're rules that recognize we're no longer in our 20s, rules that apply to both teams evenly, and that we can have pride when we play to win to the best of our abilities within the rules that are there. And have fun doing it; it's not like we're playing for money, we're paying to play and want to have fun, competitive games. Let's face it, very very few of us are going to get any everlasting fame from winning senior softball tournaments.
Dec. 14, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1010 posts
This rule is discussed on page 63 of the Official SSUA Rulebook -

8.5(1) USING COURTESY RUNNERS

Any player on the roster and present may be a courtesy runner if listed on the Official Lineup. A courtesy runner may be used for a base runner at any time, but the same courtesy runner may not be used more than once per inning. Any courtesy runner found running more than once per inning will be called out.... [Emphasis added]

Note: The practical effect is that Ĺ of the players on the Official Lineup may run each inning for the other Ĺ of the players ... Once a runner has been run for, (s)he may not then run for someone else in that inning.

Dec. 14, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Leave it as it is.
Dec. 14, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Thanks for the rule clarification.
Dec. 14, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
91 posts
Leave it as is.
Dec. 14, 2011
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
156 posts
NO
Dec. 14, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
395 posts
"Dear Mr. Anonymous WXYZ (possibly also known as curveball or Tool)"

Not me! I posted the majority of my personal info when you questioned who I was a while back.
I'll stand behind what I post, never tried to hide. You haven't pressed my "angry" button on this subject.



Dec. 14, 2011
AndyA25
16 posts
Don't like the rule as is. Would like to see some more limits on it.

On my team I feel its the main reason we fail to play all 7 innings many times. Too much time wasted changing runners.

Dec. 14, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
256 posts
Leave the current rule as unlimited as is with a slight modification. I would want there to be a way to not slow the game down by making sure that if there is a courtesy runner, he is ready to go so as not to delay the game.

Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
My hunch is if the last out has to run, there wouldn't be a need for a rule (only once per inning) to modify yet another rule ("C"R).

Plus, not nearly as much concern about wasted time since the current overuse/abuse of the rule will not occur as much when the runner cannot be handpicked.

And, still, the guys who really need them can get them.

A win/win.
Dec. 14, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1936 posts
Gary you keep mentioning the 'PRIDE' of running. Pride goeth before a fall. I lost my pride a long time ago and realize I am not the same person that ran a 6.3 60 yard dash in college. It is not a matter of pride anymore for me or probably a lot of these guys. Like it or not, the CR does enable a lot of guys to play longer and keeps more guys engaged in the game when they are sitting. Isn't that REALLY what senior softball is all about?
We've all seen our best days many years in the past.If the super competitive divisions want to limit them, great-let them petition the rules committee and do it, but I'm willing to bet that a majority of AA and AAA teams want it to stay the same.
Dec. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Not sure I ever mentioned pride specifically to running, though that should be a part of it.

Mark, I have said now MANY times that if there are really that many guys who actually need runners then so be it. But, AGAIN, why can't it be the last out to cutback on the shenanigans with healthy guys getting hand-picked rabbits to run for them?

And I am guessing senior softball is still about winning or they wouldn't keep score, standings, brackets, or have "ring" tournaments.
Dec. 14, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
784 posts
WXYZ, You are proposing to completely ignore all posts and comments from Gary19?
Where have I seen this before? Oh, I know, it's the SSUSA brass who ignore anything that we have to say that would make senior softball a better game. They will do whatever they want to do and it doesn't matter what we say. To them, we are all annoying pests!
Dec. 14, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
it allows me to keep playing, without getting hurt running. both of my hips have been replaced. two lower back surgeries, and lots of athritis. i can get to 1st,but always get a runner. i cover my position ( pitcher)very well. just can't run without pain and not too fast.
Dec. 14, 2011
garyheifner
331 posts
The CR rule as it is now is excellent. It is a part of the strategy of senior softball. My team has been together since 2001-2002. We have one guy with a metal hip, 1 with 2 rods holding his leg together and another with severve foot problems. None can run and barely make it to 1st. 2 are automatic double plays on grounders. The CR rule allows them to continue playing and we have team LOYALTY and would never drop them from the team. We also have 5 guys who have had heart by pass surgery and need CRs at times in a long tourney.

No team in Senior ball handles the CR any better than my team. As we hit the dugout and before the 1st batter steps to the plate each inning, we have the CRs lined up. We usually have the CRs lined up before the game even begins. No shouts of who can run. Usually as the batter crosses 1st the CR is already heading out. Most teams are really slow to send out the CR and it takes playing time off the clock. All TDs should remind the managers at the meetings to expedite the CR process as best as possible.
Dec. 15, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
garyheifner, the way your team does it with a CR is the same way my manager handles it. We all know who we are running for and as soon as they get to first, we are calling out to the ump and heading to first. Why would any manager do it differently? No one likes an unnecessarily slowed-down game.

As to the poll, I am O.K. with the current ruleódon't hear many complaints and fair for both teams, but I can see that it is often abused. Here's a true example from a few years ago.

Playing for the championship game in the largest and most prestigious round robin tournament in Northern California. It's a year when players can be double-rostered if they are on a roster one age-group younger.

It's the last game of the day. Everybody is getting tired. I'm pitching and the other team is getting on base more often than I wish. About the third inning, I see a new runner replace the guy on first. Then I notice another new runner filling in for another batter on first. About the 5th inning, I realize that none of these runners (and there have been about 5 so far) have ever batted. I wonder how big the roster is for the team we're playing since they are batting 13.

We lose the game narrowly, and with it the championship. After the game, I discover that these runners were all from a different team that had easily swept its division, rested for a couple of hours, and then came over to run for the team we were playing since they were all double-rostered on the younger roster. I wasn't so happy about the courtesy runner rule that day!
Dec. 15, 2011
Tater50
333 posts
Wouldn't a YEARLY PLAYER POLL, not a Summit Meeting, rectify a lot of these reoccuring threads on this board?

But there again: guys wouldn't be able to spend 2+ hours on this site debating.

I still cannot get a definitive answer as to why a YPP can't be administered.

1. Too Expensive!!
2. Too Time consuming!!
3. Other!!

BTW: Cr's are needed due to injuries; but a YPP would determine what the Majority thinks.

YPP should be to those that actually "attend & spend megabucks & take off from their jobs" for these tourneys; that can be determined by the team's rosters.

Tater50
Dec. 15, 2011
Capt Kirk
389 posts
No more than one (1) CR per inning, this would allow a manager to use a CR in case of an injury and the CR would be judicioulsy. I believe that excessive use of the CR slows down the game. Just my 2 cents worth.
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
One per inning completely takes away the purpose of the rule. So it truly isn't for a "courtesy" to a guy who really needs it, otherwise what this rule says is only one batter per inning is allowed to be injured.

Again, a new rule to poorly attempt to compensate for another abused rule. Makes no sense. So the manager has to choose between two needy batters as to which one needs the runner morer? Strange.

Making the last out run will help to police the abuse without losing the honest, original intent of the rule.
Dec. 15, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1936 posts
'The lack of pride is in seniors believing they need special accommodations (bats, unlimited runners, so many age groups and classifications) to be able to compete effectively and to have a chance to win rather than to work hard and rely on their abilities.'
'My hunch is we will be in the small minority. Both in terms of this rule and of having some pride. Guys just want to think they are getting some sort of edge, apparently not realizing the other team is getting the same edge, so the advantage goes to no one.'
You ask for accuracy-these are 2 posts of yours reference pride and the CR rule-and they are on this thread. First one is a more direct reference.
Dec. 15, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
Gary since you propose designated "throwers" could you get me a designated "breather" since I have breathing problems???
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Steve, that is part of my point. Why limit it to just running? There are many other equally serious ailments. Should they all get special accommodations? And if not, how was just running picked?

Mark, no specific comment about pride and the lack of ability to run.
Dec. 15, 2011
Capt Kirk
389 posts
Gary19, I have to agreed, some of our posts go from the sublime to the ridiculous, let's just play ball and enjoy it while we can.
Dec. 15, 2011
Miterbox24
5 posts
I would like to see a limit on the number of CR's per inning. 1 per inning would be fine with me.
Dec. 15, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
G19, To include the word "pride" with a thread about the CR is quite comical.
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Same could be said about pride and senior bats.
Dec. 15, 2011
Brock
Men's 65
46 posts
I can't believe this. One thread is closed and the next day another starts on courtesy runners. This was discussed at the recent meeting in Florida and was decided to leave as is. See first post from SS USA.

As several have mentioned here, it's just another strategy to help win a game. I play on two teams and am the base running coach on one of them. I'm also one of the runners but if I'm on second base in the last inning as the tieing or winning run and I know there's someone on the bench faster than I who has not yet run that inning, I'll call for a pinch runner for me. I know we all do this to have fun but winning is more fun than losing and I've always said there are three elements to this game - offense, defense and base running. Why would anyone want to disallow one of the three strategies of the game?

One of my teammates has posted on this before and was planning to get a knee replacement in the off season but will probably not have it done now. In the Winter Worlds in Las Vegas in the first inning of the first game, his cleats caught in the turf and down he went injuring his shoulder and he was finished for the tournament. Yes, it could have happened to anyone but don't tell me his bad knee had nothing to do with it. Some would suggest he should be playing AA or AAA if he can't run for himself at the major/major+ level. The truth be known, he would be laughed out of AA/AAA because he is that good of a hitter with power. Does this mean he shouldn't play? I don't think so. John (Goforit) I hope you see this. I know you commented on an earlier thread but by the time I saw it it was closed. Here's another opportunity.

I don't get on the message board that often but enough is enough! Greg Broeckelman, Scrap Iron Master Collision 60s and Scrap Iron Redux 65s
Dec. 15, 2011
Brock
Men's 65
46 posts
Correction. See second post above on the rules meeting from SS USA concerning courtesy runners.
Dec. 15, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
come on Gary---senior bats!! if a bat feels comfortable in your hands you can hit with it---CRs some people can hit but not run so managers send runners in for them but if you cannot throw you are usually limited to DH or catcher--last out?? what if there are several hitters in a row that cannot run then the last out goes quite a ways back so in essence yo uare wasting more time!!! Lets accept it as it is and MOVE ON to another topic
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Brock, the outfielder who can still run like a deer but has a bad throwing shoulder can no longer play. Where is his "courtesy"?

The courtesy runner rule was NEVER intended to be strategic, but just a COURTESY to guys who have legitimate issues. If you want to use it as strategy, fine, but then name it something much more appropriate.

Yes Steve, senior bats. The insistence on them when the bats all the other ages are using are still very lively is the definition of lack of pride.

AGAIN, exceptions don't prove rules. How many teams really have "several hitters in a row that cannot run"? And if you do, change your batting order. What, we now have to have rules to accommodate the whim of every manager's batting orders? Silly!
Dec. 15, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Senior bats, asa bats, wood bats, bombats, HBX's whatever if you can hit you can hit! what does pride have to do with it?
Dec. 15, 2011
tg69
296 posts
Here I am AGAIN.As all of you know,Im stubborn,hardheaded and must have the LAST WORD.I really want to play with the young guys but they dont want me because of my attitude or maybe Im not as good as I think I am.I dont want to play Senior ball because of all the ridiculus rules you have and yah,those SPECIAL BATS.So,Ill just show all of you old guys and wont play at all but I will still stay on line and complain about the game that all of you LOVE to play.If anyone responds to my post ,you know Ill have to have the LAST WORD.
Dec. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
LET ME ASK THIS,IF ISA HAS WHAT THEY CALL A RABBIT(A RUNNER WHO CAN RUN AS MANY TIMES AS THEY CAN GET HIM IN) FOR THEIR PLAY,AND THIS IS ALL AGES,DO THEY NOT HAVE ANY PRIDE EVEN WITH THE YOUNG GUYS PLAYING IT.
Dec. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
but tg69,my kids are all div 1 athletes,and i get to live thru them,so no need for me to play and yes i will have the last word.
Dec. 15, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Don't forget,I don't need a cellphone, I dont' pretend to be important enough that I need to be on the phone 24/7. Don't like GPSs at all, I much prefer my own directions. Don't need an iPod, I prefer talk radio. I have no physical problems with cranking up and down my car windows. I can get plenty of over the air TV stations, and don't need to spend more time in front of the TV anyway.
Dec. 15, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I for one like the rule as is.

But the number one thing most havent addressed is this, if the CR is such a problem and slows the game down so much why hasnt SSUSA done something about it?
We talk about how much SSUSA charges us for fees, does anyone think for a minute that if the CR slows us down that much, (which would cause more cost for SSUSA and us in the long run), isnt looking at their bottom line and how its affected by the CR? Evidently its not such a big issue with them and slowing down the game, or it would have been changed long ago.

jm2c
Dec. 15, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
248 posts
last out won't spend up the game, play co-ed Tuesday and we can run for the ladies if needed by using the out lady out, it takes us way longer to figure that out verus using best available. it would be the same way with us in the Seniors, let the coach make the decision but be prepared, you know who needs runners, not excuse for any delay. Umpire needs to control the action, snooze and you lose. Not ready don't allow change.
Dec. 15, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
248 posts
sorry should read speed not spend.
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Tool, no doubt if you can hit you can hit. But are you honestly saying you don't see guys who out-perform their abilities by using the senior bats? You really don't see performance enhancements due to the extra liveliness and ridiculously large sweet spot? C'mon now! If they make no difference, why do seniors insist on them?

Tool, what is wrong with not needing those things? Ever wonder how your parents survived all those years without them?

tg, who isn't playing anymore?

pup, I don't live though anyone. And I don't need special bats to tell my kids that dad did (fill in the blank). They actually all find it really amusing that we have bats that no one uner 50 is allowed to use.

E4, why would the association care if the game is slowed down. They have a time limit in place that controls how long the games take. What do they care how we spend, or waste, the time they give us? X amount of minutes is X amount of minutes.

jb, it really shouldn't be that difficult at all to see who made the last out. And where it will speed things up is by reducing the number of instances of courtesy running as managers will see there will often not be the advantage that they now get by putting in the rabbit.
Dec. 15, 2011
Brock
Men's 65
46 posts
Gary 19, he doesn't have to quit. he can still AH and be a CR. Unless his arm is completely gone, he could probably pitch if he has that aptitude or catch or possibly play first base also.

If it's not a "strategy" then why when a guy runs that probably should have had a CR is thrown out at home by a half step do you hear someone say "we should have put in a pinch runner"(CR). Sounds like "strategy" to me.
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Maybe not quit, well not unless he has enough pride to realize that he is just doing a fraction of what the game was meant to do.

My point is, why only the accommodation for guys who can't run? Is running all there is to the game that those guys get the break and no one else with an ailment?

It is a strategy, but was NEVER intended to be one. It has been made one, and I understand it is currently legal to do that, but why do you think the rule was called "courtesy" to begin with? As a courtesy to the manager who wants to strategize? I don't think so.

Seriously, does anyone recall and want to admit why the the runner was called a "courtesy" runner when this was first put in. I remember when the other team had to be asked if it was okay to use the runner. That was how it was intended, hence the adjective "courtesy".

So if we need to do it as a concession to age, okay, but let's not manipulate it.
Dec. 15, 2011
tg69
296 posts
AGAIN.Its courtesy and not INJURY.LAST WORD
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
AGAIN, when it was first put in you had to ask the other team if they would be COURTEOUS and allow the runner.

So there is "courtesy" to letting a perfectly capable guy sit down while someone with .1 of a second more speed run for him?

This is where the lack of pride comes in. NOT for the guys who cannot run, but for all the guys who manipulate the intention of the rule. And of course being too dumb to realize that if the other team can manipulate the same rule then thre is a net gain of zero and what is the point to it.
Dec. 15, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
You keep beating a dead horse with the senior bat blah blah... i was just wondering what does pride have to do with it?

The past is history, tomorrows a mystery!
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I am sure you are correct. The pride comes in with how somehow guys getting off on doing things in their 50s and 60s many (I know, not all) weren't doing in their 20s and 30s and thinking the difference is them and not someone else's technology.

Your tomorrow might be a mystery, mine will be beginning to pick up a bunch of children and bringing them home for the holidays. =)
Dec. 15, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Ok just going to let it go...I for some reason do not see how someones "pride" has anything to do with using the equipment the associations and companies put out there or rules made by these different associations.
Dec. 15, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Was pride the reason players started using gloves with the fingers strung together? Or with a cork filled ball? or a metal bat? Or a Maple bat? Or cleats of plastic? Or uniforms made of polyester or cotton? Or batting gloves with a padded palm?
I'm sure I am missing many many items that technology has given us.
The bottom line is progress or cease to exist. I prefer the progression, and I am DAMN proud to progress with it!
Gary you claim to play and use current bats, wheres your Pride Pappy?
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Using legal equipment and rules does not, but the insistence on them and somehow fooling yourself into feeling good about using them does.

E4, I beleive everything you described was used by all. Who else is using Ultra 2s? Or Senior Combats?

Get rid of them and I will still be there. Not all can say that.
Dec. 15, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Gary you can quote all the "others" you like, but look at the heading and Logo at the top of every page on this site, it says Senior Softball, thats who we are, Seniors. (I personally dont consider the 40 to 50's to be seniors).
We are older, and in most cases we have more diminished skills then the younger age groups. Plus we just like using better equipment.
And whats wrong with making yourself feel good about something, or anything?
Maybe more people should follow our lead. There would be far less violence and taking of life if more people felt better about themselves.
Dec. 15, 2011
Capt Kirk
389 posts
Has the discussion digressed to the point to where we are trying to pick flyshit out of pepper?
Dec. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
E4, no doubt some skills are diminished, though I think most would agree hitting diminishes more slowly than say speed, range, reactions, or arm strength.

Just seems really strange that the oldest, slowest group uses the liveliest bats. And guys claim they care about safety. LOL

Feel good all you want. But I can tell if an "accomplishment" was performed by me, or the equipment. I wouldn't feel right dunking with the use of a trampoline, and then telling people I can do what Kobe Bryant does. But that is just me.

Feeling good is one thing, fooling yourself is just kind of sad.
Dec. 15, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1004 posts
E4/E6 why you got to go there with 40's and 50's comment. Luckily you don't have a say.
Dec. 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
The numbers are bigger in the 40-50 than they are in all of the others combined if I read it correctly.
Dec. 15, 2011
SLOBALL1
Men's 50
173 posts
mad dog; The ISA Rabbit rule is not the same as the Courtesy Rule we have as Seniors.


ISA rule is ONE "Rabbit" per game not multiple "RABBITS" per game as happens in our Senior game. ONE Rabbit must be designated before the game begins and then can run as many times per half inning as possible for the same hitter-not multiple hitters.
There is no ambiguity or mis-intent to the ISA rule.

Personally if I'd choose the Rabbit rule over Courtesy.Some might not like the Rabbit rule because it would take some of the "Strategy" out of the game.
Dec. 15, 2011
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
OK Staff, Time to do your thing and remove. To use your phrase. "In this case, it was because, to use a baseball analogy, the pitch (reply) count was too high in relation to anything else of value being added to the thread's original posting purpose. Time to send that thread to the showers!"

Dec. 15, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Pricer you are right, but I didnt say 40 and 50's I said 40 TO 50.
Dec. 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Sorry, I was speed reading and not very good at it.
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